I plan to using a large quantity of Simpson Strongscrews (1/4″ x 3-1/2″) to assemble a special project using 2x6s. A framer told me to dip the screws half way into some detergent to make the entry easier. Seems OK to me but I was wondering if the small amount of liquid would have any long term affects in the wood. The top of the screw is a hex head driven in with a socket and driver. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
JimJ
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Replies
You really don't need to go to the trouble. These screws are a self-drilling type that clears its own hole on the way in. I wouldn't use a Hole Hog either to put them in. It's too easy to overspin and then the threads strip out the wood fibers. I use my 18V DeWalt driver most of the time.
Besides, you'll get that detegent all over your hands and drill and start slobbering up the work.
Jim - Soap on screw threads is one of the oldest tricks in the book. I would imagine detergent might work, but I use bar soap. If you are worried about long term effects, I don't know of any. Soap that migrates to the surface will get worn off or washed off. Maybe try wax (beeswax or candle wax). It's a pain putting it on a brazillion screws, but you can do it while you're watching tv. Have fun.
Don
this is archaic, but if you need to lube the screws you can run it through your hair. the oil in your hair will help a bit....old school
For those who, like me, are hirsutely-challenged, I recommend a block of parrafin, which tends to be a bit less messy than bar soap when wet.
Sure I tired that now I'm bald!
One of the little impact drivers, even a 12V one, will sink these quickly into hard, dense wood. No lubrication needed.
I use soap on screws when I want them to rust.
When I do not want rust, I use wax. any wax.
I caught all kinds of ____ for that comment. Soap attracts moisture,YES?
Still use soap, but never commercial soap.
Still have a few bars of Grandmas homeade soap from the 50's. She made her own soap for every thing, and Grandpa had her make a batch every once in a while that was way shy on the lye, and only chicken fat for some reason. There are bolts I put in with that in the 50s in a basement stairs, no problems, although one did fall out due to termites. Others in place that Gpa probably installed in the teens still look solid.
My grandfather had a screwdriver with the end of the handle hollowed out and filled with some lubricant. Not sure if it was beeswax or very old soap. The screws he used were mostly brass, we still have a lot of them in the original boxes.
-- J.S.
Probably beeswax
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
So, your soap draws termites?
<G>
The liquid soap will put water into the screw hole. Not much but may lead to discoloration if not rot. Wax is better but it may mar the finish on the surface depending on the project. I tend to use wax most often, a quick wipe with spirits cleans the wax off if I'm worried about the finish. If the project is prefinished, to be unfinished or painted then no worries. DW always burns candles so I thieve the chunks of melted wax (mostly paraffin and beeswax) and always have a chunk on hand for no extra $$. I can hold a small chunk in my fingers gripping the screw so the spinning screw lubes itself as it's driven.
A quick wipe through your hair, eyebrows or beside your nose will oil it a bit, good in a pinch. Just don't do this with a screw you just backed out...friction make hot!
Do not use soap or detergent on the screws. Both have a corrosive effect that does not go away because they can constantly draw minute amounts of moisture from the air. They can also cause deterioration of the wood around the screw because of the wetting action of the soap or detergent.
I read about this many years ago and, largely because I started to look, I have spotted screws that look to have been lubricated with soap and noted the screws were, in fact, corroded and the wood softened and/or aged. Often with a tell-tale ring of rust staining.
I would also be reluctant to use petroleum products like Vaseline, oil or bearing grease. These likely wouldn't harm the screw, might actually provide some protection by excluding moisture, but they might soften of damage the wood.
If you must lubricate the screws, something not normally needed or advisable with the screws you mention, I would use use a neutral lubricant like bees wax or paraffin. There are heavy silicon greases and Teflon based compounds, like those used by plumbers, that might be useful without causing problems with deterioration down the road but I don't know how they would react, long term, with the materials.
If you wish to try the wax a trick to getting a large quantity at a reasonable price is to buy a cheap toilet ring. These give you a large quantity of soft wax for a few dollars. Much cheaper than the tiny blocks of wax that they want real money, $4 for a couple or ounces, for. The wax from the toilet ring can be transferred into a tin with a top with a putty knife so it stays clean and people aren't confused by the association with a toilet.
Hi
One of the reasons that soap is not a good idea is that salt is used in a lot of soaps. Don't ask me why, perhaps to change the ph. Salt is corrosive and hygroscopic i.e. it attracts moisture. This is probably why they end up rusting.
Cheers
Poorsh
You probably don't need wax on those screws,if you do use a wax seal from a plumbing supply. For $2.00 you have enough wax to last twenty years.
mike
Long time ago, when it was necessary to predrill a hole for screws, a bit of beeswax or soap was a way to make it easier to screw it in, but when you are using a self drilling screw like these, there will be no soap or wax left on the screw once it is a half or 3/4" into the wood. Waste of time.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
First try driving some screws and see if they need any lube. If they do, get a spray can of Dri Coat for blades and cutting stuff. Spray it in a box of screws, shake 'em up spray again. It's the right stuff for the job, nothing weird happens when you use it<G>
Should we tell him about Gas-Waxing??
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
I use spit.
Seems to help enough to get the thing wound in, easy to carry and always with me. <G>
Whatever it was.................I didnt do it.
BiteMe,
That is a great idea! I was just about to post the idea of carefully heating a toilet boal ring just beyond melting point, then dip a french fry container of screws into the liquid and let it come back up to temperature, remove the basket of screws and let them drip and toss them a few times before the pour point drops on the wax.
Safety first, do it outside and watch that you don't exceed the flash point of the melted wax, wear proper safety gear and have a CO2 or Dry Chem fire extinguisher on hand.
Now after all that I think your idea is neater and quicker.
Virginbuild
Not only that, it works<g>here's a link, not where I'd buy it, but just to show you it's real...ha "what's in a name?" d'oh!
duh;http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/mvmaint_sealants.htm "what's in a name?" d'oh!
Thanks,
I haven't run across this brand before. Sounds simular to Master Mechanic or WD-40 or a couple others htat are on hardware shelves. I think I will order me some of this and try it.
Stay well lubed :-)
Virginbuild
Oh no, it's nothing like WD-40, matter of fact, that will make a mess.I found the manufacturer's site:http://www.neverseezproducts.com/woodworking.htmnow, quit screwing around<G> "what's in a name?" d'oh!
Thank you MiteMe
Have a great weekend
Virginbuild
Many soaps and detergents contains corrosive ingredients that can raise hell with metal. I have for many years carried around one of those cute little round candy tins, the kind where the lid slip fits nicely over the bottom half, and I keep it filled with wax from a toilet seal. Probably costs me about $1.37 a year, and works just great.
Door-ease.
In the tin tube.
Screws to door slides.
No mess.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
My uncle told me about something called "Plumbers Grease". I have no idea what it is.
Using an impact driver will make all the difference in the world. You can get a Ryobi (I've driven thousands of screws and bolts with mine, and dropped it on concrete a dozen times too) for under $100, and if you have some tight angles you can drive those with the Rigid right angle driver for $129 (with 12v drill too).
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If the problem is stripping the heads of the screws, Lee Valley sells a product called Screw Grip. It has abrasive particles in in that help the driver grip the screw head.