Just curious as to how some of you other guys handle working for family and friends. As I’m sure you all know, it can be very awkward, as people tend to think because you’re related or good friends, you’re going to donate all your time, energy, and tools to fixing up their houses. I’m not talking about the occasional one day or weekend job, but the bigger stuff like additions, roofs, & kitchen & bath remodeling etc. Stuff that takes more than a week or two and requires your ability to handle subs etc. Seems like once you do something as a favor, it’s expected all the time. Set a standard discount as a rule, or try to steer clear? Would love to help people out as much as I can, but I also have a mortgage, bills, and business expenses to pay of my own, and it always seems like you end up doing more than you normally would for a regular customer, just to make sure they’re happy. Any thoughts?
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I AVOID IT LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!!!!
I did a $300,000, 1 year, complete reno/addition for a good friend and haven't talked to him since. I lost 40K on the deal and he still thinks I screwed him. I would have had to charge $500K to make any money. Didn't want to pay for ANY change orders and the details I built in were more than anyone in town would have done at twice the price. From the glass slick ceilings to the stone decks and terraces to the pergola built from all No 1 3X12's that were all hand picked before treating, it approached punch free perfection. The only friend/family I will work for is my mother, she is the only one I can't say no to and sometimes even she is on thin ice. I will however allow my subs and employees to do side work for friends on the weekends but I have a strict no liability policy and remind them with every call. If I have to get involved it's full rate with full contracts/scope/specs/permits.
It always seems to go badly...........My .02
This is my biggest problem knowing when to say "no" my phone is constantly ringing with family and friends saying "hey how busy are you?" Automatically I know what they want. I don't have a problem helping them out for a day or two but I have plenty of jobs I have to keep up with as well. I tell them I'm kind of swamped which is true but call me when everything hits the ground so far as materials and you're ready for me I'll help you as long as I can. I just can't say no. I make everyone else happy and I'm happy doing it but my wife hates seeing headlights pulling in at 8:00 every night seven days a week when she sees them leave at 6:00 every morning. I'll be paying attention to this one.
VT, it can be anything you want it to be: I've hung crown in a friend's bedroom for a 6-pack; no big deal.
I've also done over $150K worth of new construction and repair for my father...he got the deal because he didn't pay for my markup on other subs. I made my money, though, and he always has the money whenever, whatever.
Some people say you shouldn't charge family & friends what you normally would. I say decide how difficult/time consuming it is, what you want out of it, and go from there. Even friends and family have to understand that if it takes time out of your normal schedule, or if you'll be on site (with crew) for several days, you've got to get paid for it.
As my dad says, "I'd much rather pay you to make sure it's done right than pay someone else to BS me." He has a point!Jason Pharez Construction
Framing & Exterior Remodeling
I never do for hire work for family or friends. If I have free time I'll always help but make it clear that it's is just free time donated help for whatever free time I can spare. I won't even give a family member or close friend a 'this is the best guy' recomendation, it just never works out.
Wish I had family nearby to say no to. My Mom is 3.5 hours away and told me she's getting ready to have a few things done and would just as soon pay me as the guy around the corner. She's not looking for any bargains or deals, in fact, she made it perfectly clear that she wouldn't let me do anything unless I billed her in advance.
As for friends, most of mine seem to recognize the real value of time and actual cost of materials. My accountant told me to remember one thing, if they are really your friends, then they want you to be successful, anything less and you should wonder about the depth of the relationship.
So far my whole business is made up of work for friends and family. We always start out with very clear definitions of what we are doing and that they are HIRING me. It has gone very well thus far. I mostly do little stuff, repairs etc, that most guys with overhead would never touch. They are thrilled to get the jobs done at all and even happier to have it done by someone they trust. I am very upfront and honest about things, always explaining what needs to be done, a couple of options for doing it and admitting what I don't know. It may be different on a big project, but I have no complaints.
eric
"I never do for hire work for family or friends. If I have free time I'll always help but make it clear that it's is just free time donated help for whatever free time I can spare. I won't even give a family member or close friend a 'this is the best guy' recomendation, it just never works out."
I do the same.
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It's only satisfying if you eat it.
Edited 1/23/2006 10:16 pm ET by dustinf
Edited 1/23/2006 10:16 pm ET by dustinf
When friends ask me to do electrical work for them, I quote them just as any other job. Most are happy to pay a fair price for a job well done, by someone they trust.
On occasion, I'll have someone, usually a friend of a friend or a casual acquaintance, ask for a break on the price, "because they're a friend" or because of the connection through a friend. I usually tell 'em that if we're friends, they ought to be paying me more than my going rate! Why shouldn't it go the other way, to benefit me, the contractor? That leads to some interesting moments...
Many contractors do some sort of charity work, whether it's once a year for "Christmas in April" (which is now known by another name), or for a church, or some other organization. I do volunteer work for Habitat for Humanity. If anyone asks for a discount or a freebie, I tell 'em I support a charity on an occasional Saturday, and otherwise, I'm in business to make a profit. I tell 'em that I'm really busy with jobs where people are happy to pay my going prices.
There are often signals even before someone askes for a discount--when someone says, " I have a simple job, just hooking up (video system, garge wiring, etc)...can you do it? It's really nothing, shouldn't take long."
I usually find that I'm too busy to get to it, for months.
Sometimes I'll do some small job for a friend for free. It's usually when they ask me if I know anyone who could do it for them, or they ask about how to do it so they can tackle it themselves. If I offer to do some work or help them, I explain that it'll have to be at my convenience. And, I expect them to pay for parts if it's more than a few bucks. I quit letting people in that situation provide the parts, because they never get the right stuff. If they're so damn tight that they thing I'm going to gouge them on parts, I don't want to be doing them any favors.
Every time you do something free or discounted for someone, visualize the money you're giving up. Consider whether that person would give you a similar amount of money if you simply asked them to. Think they would? So why are you giving them your money?
One last thought--people tend to value things or services in proportion to what they pay for them. If you give your work away free, that's exactly what most people will think it's worth.
Cliff
Got involved in a project for a real good friend middle of last year. There were times I felt sorry I ever got involved, and probably same on her end too. We got past it, at least so far.
I do this stuff because I enjoy it. I prefer to work for myself on my own projects. For friends and family, I'd rather do it for free, but that becomes a problem. For who, how often? I narrow it down to a small group, and not too often. I want to feel appreciated, at least.
To be fair, I do have a small group of family and one friend that have helped me out (the minority) and I try not to forget them either when they need help. It's a tough road to travel down the middle of.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Thanks guys for the input. It is a very difficult situation at times. It seems that I do alot of things to help people out, but when it's my turn, I get the "I just don't have time" line. I've decided that it's almost not worth doing it, as I usually always put in extra efffort and usually regret getting involved. The line I've used is, " let me call my mortgage co. and let them know I'm working for a friend/relative this month & see if they waive my mortgage for the month". Sounds a little sarcastic, but at least they get the idea. As I said, little things are one thing, but when you're talking hundreds & thousands of dollars, I think it's alot for people to expect. Like someone else said, I doubt they'd give me that money for nothing. I love what I do, but also want to get paid for the big stuff
The classic is getting invited to dinner by a relative and having them ask " could you bring your work truck". A sure sign you are expected to do more than sing for your supper.
How about when you do a job for a week or so & you get a sandwich
Sounds like it's time for a serious intervention!
Any Breaktimers in the Northeast, who could kidnap VT.lab (in Massachusets), and de-program him?
Hey, doing an occasional small job for free for a friend, especially one who isn't expecting it, and who's been there in the past for you, can give you a real good feeling. But it seems like you can't help yourself. So an intervention may be in order.
I'm thinking something along the lines of those commercials for Capitol One, with David Spader telling the chunky guy to say "NO!", but the poor schmoe can't help himself. The chunky guy always gets it for saying yes. Pretty clever advertising.
Maybe a more practical approach, VT, is for you to wear a thick rubber band around your wrist, and when you are asked to do work for cheap or for free, and you start to say "yes", snap the rubber band, hard, and for as many times as it takes to stop yourself! Better yet, take the rubber band and snap the freeloader on the forehead.
Good luck,
Cliff
I have some family members that I wont work for no matter how much they promise to pay me. I also have a few family members that deal with me just as they would any other contractor, pay me what I'm worth.
I like to think I have made some friends out of some of the people that I have done work for and to those I'd help out on some small things but anything large there going to have to pay like everybody else.
I think you have to evaluate each person/situation separately.
Doug
I think CAP said it right.When I have done work for my friends, (and they for me) I charge them the same rate I'd charge anyone else. They're hiring me because they want someone they can trust. We figure we save $$$ not by shorting the bid, but by having it done right the first time.I'll do small jobs for free, just to help out, but that's time and sanity permitting.
VT.lab........work for family and friends the phrase, "saying yes when you mean no", comes to mind.
One of my best friends is a contractor. I was planning an addition that is just the type of work he does. We had a discussion and both concluded that our friendship was too important to risk. I hired someone else and don't regret it, even though I'm sure my friend would have done a great job.
Once in a while one of my relatives has a legal question and I will give them a bit of advice, but almost always it is that they should hire a lawyer. I am happy to recommend someone to them, but make it a practice not to represent them myself.