Here is the proposal. Potential client is wanting a major remodel done to an old home. Big addition, foundation work required, renovation of existing elevations, kitchen and bath work, etc.
An architect has prepared the drawings, they are pretty good, including structural work, and a set of clear specs exist.
The potential client is a commercial GC, a partner in the biz, his outfit does stuff like churches, schools, superstores, hypermarts, etc.
Will you quote him lump-sum firm price, and do his job?
Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
Replies
If it's what you do, then I guess I don't understand what the problem may be.
Some might say this. "I would not want to work for the client. He might think he knows it all about contracting, and would pick me to pieces."
Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
Gene, if you feel like you're on top of your game, go for it. I or the company I work for have done work for real estate developers, commercial GC's, commercial PM's, and architects. From what I've seen people who are successful in those types of careers appreciate people in the trades who are good at what they do. If you are good at custom details, but not so good at pushing an unrealistic schedule, make that clear up front. If they want speed they can find it elsewhere. If they want quality they need to be educated that it takes time.
Are you more concerned about getting picked apart on cost? Are you normally open-book with clients about your profit and overhead, or are you a "the price is the price" kind of guy?
Mike
It's a hypothetical, Mike. My younger bro is the client, his firm does the commercial work I spoke of, and a new Target store is in the works right now. He lives almost 600 miles away from me.
His project is underway, and he is happy with his GC. I presume the GC is happy with him, too.
When he was soliciting bids, he asked me to review some stuff for him, and suggest what might be in the contract. He is used to the full-Monty AGC stuff, plan sets rolled up like logs, spec books like telephone books, bid bonds, performance bonds, liquidated damages, etc. Wal-Mart's PM calling you at 11 pm on your cell phone. You know the drill.
I'm just curious to see what some of the Breaktimers might say to this question.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
Well then, if we're talking hypothetical, I would consider the job as any other. When working for lawyers I'm extra careful about law-related stuff, when working for accountants I'm extra careful about the accounting, if working for a commercial guy I would be extra careful about whatever he expresses concern about in our initial meetings.
Mike
The biggest obstacle would be getting a decent profit on the job. Commercial GC's are used to working on a 2-3% profit margin- 5% maybe on smaller projects (under $1 million). Any discussions regarding markups that might be shown in change orders, etc., would have to be agreed to in writing up front, or you may end up with a whining client when the changes are presented.
Bob
I sat in on a presentation by a commercial GC in the Bay Area. They do everything on 3% markup. All of their overhead is in line items on the bid, right down to the office people handling all of the money and paperwork. No fat and no contingencies, either... you define the scope very tightly and if there's even a nickel extra you justify it if you can and then do a C/O. The typical residential guy would have to tighten up the office quite a bit to operate in that mode.
Yup- that's how they do it. About the only thing that isn't attributed directly to a job is executive cost- the chief estimator, the general manager, etc. That comes out of the 3%.
In reality, though, this is really the way t hings should be. Rather than just applying some blanket markup for "overhead", and costs directly associated with a project should be charged to that project.
Bob
Quote the job as you normally would. If he has questions, answer them.
Race car drivers don't expect five guys to run out and change 4 tires in 30 seconds when they gas up the Benz at the Fill n go over by the interstate. I doubt this prospect expects more than a clear, concise proposal and timely execution.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
I don't understand the question either. If it is the type of work you do or want why would you not give a price? DanT
U know me ...
just dumb enough to think I could do it and have everyone love me in the end!
have "tried" to hit 2 or 3 commercial architects "residential" projects in the past .... never got thru the bidding process.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
There is a big difference between commercial and residential. The guy is smart enough to know he doesnt want any of his commercial guys working at his house. He's looking at you for that reason.
Sure he knows about construction, that may be to your mutual advantage. You wont have to educate your new client.
When I worked union there were a lot of guys who were top notch in the commercial trade but were totally lost when it came to fixing up their own houses.
Will you quote him lump-sum firm price, and do his job?
Yes.
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