I’m currently doing a drywall job in a huge garage that will eventually become living space. This garage is framed in steel and there is a huge I-beam (about 16″ tall) that supports the ceiling right down the middle. My “partner” just wants to use const adhesive to “glue” 2x4s to the web of the beam. I do not agree with this at all. I feel that the beam should have a soffit built around it. I dont trust the adhesive to hold his boards on the steel not to mention the problem of having nothing to attach the bottom drywall to or the corner bead. Would his method work or am I correct in thinking it just doesnt make sense?
Replies
I've handled that by having holes drilled in the flange and bolting a nailer to it. I prefer a mechanical connection if I can get one. I've also had a beam like that and decided that it was too nice to cover, and instead painted it a nice color and made it part of the decor.
Thanks for the reply. I really dont think the HO would quite appreciate the exposed beam but I could always run the idea by him. Seriously though as I wrote before I really dont think I trust the adhesive as the only means of hanging this drywall.
I also order my I beams predrilled for attachments.
Trying to drill overhead into steel that heavy will bne a killer job. Some guys use powder actuated drivers to nail framing lumber to the steel. personally, i haven't ried it, but if it works, You could glue with adhesive, and then clamp to hopld while you shoot.
PL Premium is pretty fantastic adhesive, irf you want to glue it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
They could use an electromagnetic-base drill. Like a drill press with a flat base that will stick to the beam like nobody's business. Not your everyday drill.
Not a likely tool in the basic sheetrocker's tool bag.
But they are a blast to use!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Untill some cluts trips on the cord! Jeez that hurts!Who Dares Wins.
Seems like drilling and bolting would take a lot more time and effort than powder actuated fasteners. Are bolts better?
A .27 caliber powder actuated fastening gun such as a Hilti or a Ramset, will nail 2x4 stock onto an I-beam with no problem. I use 2 in. nails and red loads. Quick, easy, and strong. The .22 caliber guns don't usually have enough snot for this application. In case you're worried, this is an approved use of the tool.
AndyArguing with a Breaktimer is like mud-wrestling a pig -- Sooner or later you find out the pig loves it.
Have to agree with Andy.
I have use PADs to attach 2x4 and 2x6s to I beam for years in comercial work. Most time we did not use adhesives, but if available or speced, we did. Use to shot 2x6s to beams and hang metal track and studs for soffit /curtin walls above produce and meat cases in Winn Dixie food stores.
You can rent the tool for the 4 hr minimum and be done with it. If head room under the beam is an issue, use 1x and then your wall board. Glue it, shoot it, hang board and crimp on the corner bead. Done.
Dave
I have done it like Dave Mason above with one change: I wire a layer of drywall on with sheet metal corners. Then, I can screw the second layer to the corners. It's fast, easy and secure.
Ron
Use NYC loads on the .22...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Thanks for mentioning the length and load. I'm still stuck using a one-shot .22, but I swat it real hard, LOL....
Actually, for those who don't have or don't want to use PATs, I've found a good sharp HSS bit will go through mild steel I-beams fairly quickly, as long as you're not trying to drill a 3/8" hole or something. ¼-20 machine screws ought to have at least as much beef for holding a 2x in place as would 16d nails in a wood-to-wood situation. Figure, what? Six ¼-inch holes per 8 feet of 2x? Maybe 10 minutes of drilling...? Makes the Helper feel important squirting that cutting oil in there, too....Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
I like your dado idea - pretty fancy. You could scale it down a bit and just add the 2xs on the side and hold them together with 1x strips and attach drywall over the resulting frame.
Actually, now that I think about it, I-beams generally hold up a bunch of joists or truss chords, so there's a large proportion of the top side of the beam that nothing is sitting on. One could simply build a series of 2x4 boxes around the beam, one in each joist bay, and then run furring laterally down them to hang the gyprock off.
My own wrap was designed to be visible; I didn't want to lower the ceiling that much. I had 8'2" to the joists from the slab (the extra 2" resulted from not having had enough gravel delivered, LOL!), but subtracting the full depth of that beam and the minimum 3" hanging distance for the suspended ceiling would have brought me below 7'--not acceptable. Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Thanks for all the great suggestions. We decided we will try Dadoing some 2x4s and attaching them to the bottom of the beam. I do have a ramset gun and I know they say it will penetrate steel but I didnt think about it.
Maybe Andy provided the answer after yours. I have 1" thick steel flanges on my 16" beam, and the .22 didn't even dent that. But that's all that seemed to be available here. Higher caliber? Didn't know it was an option.
Regardless, I'm happy with the bolt holes predrilled where I did that. Allowed some repositioning options.
I have 1" thick steel flanges on my 16" beam, and the .22 didn't even dent that. But that's all that seemed to be available here. Higher caliber? Didn't know it was an option.
Loaned my Hilti to a framing crew to shoot 2x into bar joists, nowhere near that thick. They told me it wouldn't do it. They'd bought Lowe's (Remington) nails that weren't steel rated. My nails (pins) had no problem. Fortunately for them, the HO wasn't there to learn how much of his time they'd wasted drilling holes.
Don't know what load might be necessary for your 1", but I have yet to find use for either reds or purples, too powerful. Probably 1/2" steel is the thickest I've shot.
.27 is standard for serious guns. I have tried to remove shot nails. It doesn't happen. Grind both sides flush is the best I've been able to do. Pin is in there for the life of the steel. Newer guns have a dial to relieve some of the force so you can use only reds, for instance. I haul around greens and yellows.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Anyone tried to pin something to my big beams, and they'll find themselves pinned to it!
As much as I paid for those W16x100's, they're gonna show! And I'm thinking of directing spotlights onto them too! :)
Cloud, if you're still there, turn on ABC. NOWPAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
My sister called, so I saw part of it. That's the one that inspired me, and the guy who built my shell before he got hurt. For those of you going "huh?" it was an ABC morning show on "Eye of the Storm", a thin-shell concrete house on Sullivan's Island, SC that, like all the structures I work with, is designed to be hurricane (and other disaster) resistant. They did a pretty thorough review of it. It's my favorite house in America.
Thanks Tom.
Hey Tom,
I've been thinking about you and figured you were OK underground, but It's good to see you're alright.
I've been thinking about you and figured you were OK underground, but It's good to see you're alright.
Thank you. Richmond, Va. has been under water. Major flooding, loss of life, not from the James River, but simply rain. We're an hour W. and had very little.
A few years ago we got a call from Dutch friends concerned with a news report of a bridge washed out on a major interstate here. They'd visited the year before. We live on a mountaintop. Water would have to be of biblical proportions to get to us.
You're correct that underground we have little worry about storms. The last hurricane remnants left a large tulip poplar on our roof. We didn't know anything about it until the next morning. It provided half our firewood last winter. No damage to the house.
Appreciate your concern.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
>> Water would have to be of biblical proportions to get to us.
That's what I tell people. It'll be a real bummer if I ever get water in my basement, because it'll mean Kansas City is under 5,000 feet of water.
It'll be a real bummer if I ever get water in my basement, because it'll mean Kansas City is under 5,000 feet of water.
I was under the impression it'd been a wet year. Or was that confined to Denver?
We had friends, older couple, who rode bicycles from Denver to St. Louis a couple of years ago. They didn't appreciate the observation that it was all downhill. <G>PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
>> They didn't appreciate the observation that it was all downhill.
Downwind, too, most days.
It is NEVER advisable to drill any holes in ANY steel structural support beam, unless you know exactly what the weakening results will be.
>It is NEVER advisable to drill any holes in ANY steel structural support beam, unless you know exactly what the weakening results will be.
All of ours were specified by the structural engineer and on the stamped prints.
Then why did,nt you mention having approval by an engineer on your posting, instead of misleading someone into just going ahead and drilling. Geeez,.
Now, you had a choice between saying "and, of course, remember to have the holes engineered," to which I coulda replied, "Yup, of course,"...........or getting on my case for not listing the disclaimers for a solution I didn't expect the guy to do anyway and for which I didn't specify any details, like hole size and pattern or bolt size. Why'd you choose the antagonistic approach when it was completely unnecessary?
Try this wrapping method:
Mould the edge of a finish-grade 2x4, then dado the back side of it to fit over the flange of the I-beam.
Mould the same profile on the edge of a piece of 1x4. Nail this to the 2x4 so the moulded profiles cascade.
If there's a stud wall under the I-beam, slip the dado over the flange, and nail the trim to the top plate. If no stud wall, put in a piece of 2x4 framing as blocking. Glue this up with PL Premium, just to hold it in place while you work on it.
Mould both edges of a piece of 1x8, ripped to the appropriate width, and nail it under the blocking, again aligning the edges so the moulded profiles cascade.
You can hang L-track for a suspended ceiling on the vertical 1x4; or run your gyprock up to it and nail a piece of cove in the corner cascading to the profile on the 1x4 to get a nice built-up cornice effect.
See photos and sketch. Sorry the sketch is so rough; I just free-handed it real quick....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
I've used tie wire doubled up and wrapped around the whole beam or column that is holding the first layer of rock on. Then I screw the second layer of rock over that to meet your fire code for steel.
I suppose you could glue and wire your 2x's on in the same manner if you wanted wood for your corner bead.
Good Luck, Dave
now, thats good thinking, and it sure beats the foolish notion of drilling holes (a no-no)
>> I dont trust the adhesive to hold his boards on the steel ...
Why not? Glue is all that holds plywood together. And OSB, LVL, i-joists, etc.
My drywall supply store carries small metal clips that simply slip over the beam and provide a spot to screw rock to. Not sure if this would work for your application, but, might be worth calling a drywall supply house and asking - would be much easier than drilling. As for corner bead - you could always use a paper bead that gets muded on or a spray adhesive with a vinyl bead - like to use durabond for first coat on glued on vinyl.
Good luck.
Shoeman,
You got it right..use the Grabber clips and paper bead..it's the easiest, cheapest and fastest way to do it.
Just thought I would add a link for the Grabber Clips that I was referring to for anyone that was interested. Tried to find a site to give in my first post, but, couldn't remember the name of the things.
After seeing Zano's post, I was able to find this site http://www.grabberman.com/cbclip.htm
Shoeman,
We are dealing with replies from mostly remodelers..these guys just love to frame with wood or steel..whatever..just wrap it. By the time these remodelers put up four 2x4's, bet you and I can have that I beam rocked and rolling! Ain't it a pity that most just don't want try to try the new simpler things in life and work..guess it's hard to teach old remodelers new tricks ;-)
Yeah, and then a few years later when it all warps or falls down, the HO will call in some 'remodeler' to do it right.
Funny--last time I looked the name of the magazine wasn't Fast Homebuilding....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Dinosaur,
In the Jurrasic Period we did have trees and made 2x4's..in this age we have steel which don't warp, shrink, twist..of course wood and steel can't stand a fire. Those clips are fast and speedy..someone came up with a great easy solution to the problem.
By the way, in my parts that garage I-Bean needs two layers of 5/8" firecode drywall. But nooo. the smell of sawdust..must be a natural high!
When you can show me a standing, functional, 300-year-old house framed with ittty-bitty spring clips and 30-ga. sheet-metal formed into studs, then I might let you start making nasty cracks about carpenters without shooting back....
I do both new construction and remodeling--and I personally do the framing, roofing, P&E, gyprocking, tilesetting, taping, painting, and finish woodwork. I spend a disproportionate amount of my time fixing crap work left behind closed walls by 'specialists' who know every trick in modern construction to spend as little time as possible on each job...rather than as much time as necessary to do the job right.
You want to see a fast 'rock job? Take a gander at this:
View Image
That's the result of the combined speed and inattention of both the sparky and the 'rock hangers--the electrician left that circuit feeder looped in front of the box, and the rock hangers were moving so effing fast they just slapped that 12-footer up over the box without even noticing, making a nice sandwich. They were rockin' and rollin' so effing fast, they never even noticed the bulge next to the box when they Rotozipped it. They were zipping so effing fast, they never even knew they'd nicked 2/3 of the meat out of that piece of 14-2...and it was the hot lead, of course....
I had occasion to speak with the original GC of this job after I found this when I was hired to finish the room these jerks 'rocked. He told me the rock hangers had spent a total of about 4 hours in that place, and were gone before lunch.
Gee...I'm really effing impressed....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Got my boards Dadoed today for the beam looks like this will work great. Thanks again for the advice.
Dino,
Those clips have been UL tested and pass the test! Relax man, all they are doing is providing a base to affix the drywall to. It's just simpler, cheaper and faster than wood or steel stud framing..that's all that I'm saying. If it works and is cheaper, faster and as well if not better than wood framing..what is the problem?
Airplanes are made of clips and metal..look how many clips are in your auto?
There is always beauty in simplicity..why complicate or overwork something when there is a simple solution?
That was a bad rocking for sure!
Okay, I'm not hollering any more, but listen anyway if you will: I think you're missing my main point, which is that a house isn't supposed to be just another piece of disposable consumer goods. Your comparisons to cars and airplanes being held together with clips is actually pretty good proof of my point: the average car loosens up so much in the first 6-8 years of its existance that it gets sold and replaced with a new one. Airliners last longer than consumer cars--but at the price of the most stringent and demanding maintenance schedules of any item on earth. And neither lasts anywhere near as long as a well-built house does.
The modern-day propensity for building houses as fast and cheaply as possible is a disservice to humanity in the long run. There is some valid argument that quickie cheapo bungalows enable families that otherwise could not afford them to buy homes. However, if you took a look at the condition of many of the homes on, say, Canada's native reserves, you would see that this 'benefit' is short lived as the crap construction can't stand up to ordinary day-to-day wear and tear. IMO the people for whom these cheap cracker-boxes were designed and built would be better off in well-built rental units--they wouldn't have equity in them...but they wouldn't have non- or semi-functional plumbing, cracked and disintegrating gyprock, and sagging floor and roofs, either.
Wood construction has a multi-hundred-year track record in North America, whether solid-log, timber-frame, or stick frame, and arguing against that kind of success is an uphill battle. I personally expect to be around for another couple of centuries so I can continue to annoy people by telling them things I think they ought to know...and I hate callbacks--so I build things to outlast me....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
WELL SAID!!!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
You mean the part about me annoying people, or the part about hating callbacks?
All the rest of it's just common sense....Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
All of it... Including the earlier series of posts that you've made..
BTW... If you can't anoy people.. Where'd the fun be???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Every ointment needs a fly...
Or is that supposed to read 'Every group needs a GADfly...'?
Unh...C.R.S. strikes again....
Thanks fer the kind words anyway even if I can't remember who we are ROFLMAO!!
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Edited 9/5/2004 11:40 pm ET by Dinosaur
I figured I saw it yur way...
now what?? who ever you are...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
I must be John Svenson, mustn't I? Everyone else has been at one time or another....
HEY! You must be John Svenson, too! View Image
This is gettin' scary....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Now somebody tells me....
View Image
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
WELL SAID!!!
Oh come on, he doesn't see the light. This discussion is about protecting the I-Beam from fire that in a case of fire, the I-Beam will not melt. So wrapping an I-Beam with wood is a great idea? I've seen these type of wraps using 1x3 and 2x3 and none are fire rated wood. In order to use wood, I would think the wood must be fire rated.
Nonetheless, steel clips are used in various building tecniques ..the one that comes to mind is the clip that attaches to the flange end of an I-Beam and is used to attach the acoustical ceiling grid tie wire. Try pulling off the clip once it's on.
The Grabber clips act in the same manner and they are not 30 gauge steel. There is no possible movement of the drywall with this system and the drywall screws attach to steel instead of wood..far superior.
So it's far superior to wood framing and perhaps equal to steel framing of the I-Beam. The system has been tested and it works! The problem here is that's such a simple solution that only the elightened see the beauty of it.
Dinosaur, I know what you are saying about quality construction but using these clips does not detract from the quality. All it detracts is from the cost to the homeowner and perhaps from your wallet..can't charge as much as wood or steel framing does add more working days don't it.
So nextime someone builds a 110 story building they should wrap the I-beams with wood..dat right?
Oh come on, he doesn't see the light. This discussion is about protecting the I-Beam from fire that in a case of fire, the I-Beam will not melt.
Yeah? Tell that to the firemen who died in the World Trade Center.
If you had read any of the analytic articles after 9-11 about why those smart, modern towers collapsed while an 85-year-old building 500 feet from Ground Zero burned BUT DID NOT COLLAPSE, you'd know that snappy little clips, spray-on insulation, and gyprock are no match in fire protection to the elaborate masonry insulation used in those stupid, old-fashioned buildings.
This discussion was about hanging gyprock in some guy's garage to hide an I-beam the HO doesn't wanna look at. You making smart-a$$ cracks about 110-storey buildings and fire-rated wood isn't gonna help solve his problem, and only serves to demonstrate the depth of your ignorance of the history of your profession.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
What are the odds that that beam is level?
What are the odds that that beam is level?
To answer with a question: What are the odds that anything is "truly" level in new construction?
This discussion is not about someone wanting to cover up an I- Beam in his garage..he has to for it's code. Normally, all house garages are single 5/8" firecode sheetrock and double on the ceiling if the ceiling is TJI. At least that's the way it's done in my area and I suspect it's code throughout the country.
The Towers collapsed because the impact of the airplaines blew off the sprayed on fire insulation and the resulting heat from the fires weakened the I- Beams. That would have happened no matter what type of protection was on the I- Beams. Those planes even sheared some of the steel beams!
Thus to encase an I-Beam with normal wood is sheer stupidity. Fire rated wood is much better but don't know by how much. Why in blazes would you want to wrap a structural I-Beam with wood and in case the fire breaks the drywall protecting the I-Beam you have a fire around the entire I-Beam..not to smart for my liking at all.
Therefore, steel framing or the Grabber clips is far better for it removes the possibilty of a bonfire around the entire length and width of an I-Beam.
What we have here is "a failure to accept new technology"! It's very prevalent for many are just afraid of change as they tend to do it the way it's been done for ages or at the least can't see the benefit of something new.
Why that building 500 feet from Ground Zero did not collapse..don't know..how many buildings with fires do not collapse? maybe the building did not have steel I-Beams with 100,000 tons of weight on top of them? Or just maybe a 767 did not slam into it..did you ever think of that?
As it turns out, the beam is being covered because in the near future, the HO is turning this garage into a "great room". I wont argue that it is a fire hazard though (none of the wall in the garage are drywalled). The ceiling is open with insulation installed backwards(kraft exposed) and above the garage is a huge master suite. It has stood this way for 20 years. Evidently the original home owner never pulled his permits. I could write all night about the wrong things i'm finding on this job.
Zano: I'm far from a code expert, so I'm very interested in what's commonly done out there. Sounds like you must build fire resistance into all structural steel components in your neck of the woods. Is that part of the Uniform Building Code?
What I've read of the Ontario Building Code does not require structural steel in residential construction to be fire-rated unless it forms part of a code-required fire separation (i.e. between "occupancies") or it supports a floor above. That would mean that a beam supporting roof members in a garage would not need to be covered by a double layer of 5/8" drywall unless there was a "bonus room" resting on the steel too. I take that to mean I don't need the @#*(& drywall in my case.
If I'm wrong, I need to know, guys! No point in going to all that effort to put up a steel ridge beam if I can't use it for my beam carriage and chain-fall hoist later! I have no desire to install drywall for the inspector's benefit and rip it off later, either.
I'm no code expert either but I suspect that if the I-Beam is structural, that is, if it supports something like the roof it must be encased with 5/8" drywall. If you have an I-Beam that is not structural, it should not be fire proof. In this case, the beam is not part of the structure. Just to be sure check with your local building inspector.
Thanks for that, but it doesn't match what I've seen around here. I've seen lots of steel with no fireproofing in structural applications in wood construction and was frankly surprised to see it. Afraid if I ask the BI, they'll say "do it" because that's the zero liability answer. Hopefully somebody with OBC knowledge can give me the authoritative answer on this one before I put in the plans for permit approval and have no choice in the matter any more!
Wow, what a thread.
I was really suprised that no one had mentioned the clips before I did, and even more suprised to that no one other than Zano seemed to be on board with them.
I really can't see the down side to using these clips to dress up a beam in a basement. I often box out ducts and such with steel studs or plywood and wrap with drywall, but, don't think that it is a superior design to the clips for wraping just a beam.
I gotta wonder if it was just Zano's first post infering that people that don't use clips are living in the dark ages and are afraid to change that caused people to hunker down with their old methods to fight, or if people really think these clips are somehow a terrible inferior method of covering a beam that would only be used by hacks.
Would like to hear if there are specific drawbacks to using the clips to cover a beam in a residential basement that I should be aware of.
Thanks to anyone that cares to share in a discussion of the clips and not a battle of egos.
Would like to hear if there are specific drawbacks to using the clips to cover a beam in a residential basement that I should be aware of.
No answer yet? The others have not tried the clips yet; if and when they do they will realize how easy this solution is.......till then as The Beatles said "this happened once before, when I came to your door..no reply".
Also bear in mind that framing the beam with wood or steel is lots more money in their pockets..now that's a change most don't want to make.
yeah, no responses yet - just thought with all the contorversy in this thread, someone, might have specific reasons they don't like the clips.
I just don't really see a down side to them as long as you use enough clips. Seems to me to not only be the fastest way to wrap a beam, but the best as well. Uses the least amount of space.
Very few see the beauty of an innovative idea until they actually try it. As I said, I'm always game for a simpler, easier, cheaper and faster solution to a project as long as it meets the requirements of that project.
Well, after all the controversy, I guess the bottom line is that it is alright to use the clips to wrap the beams in a residential building.
I know there used to be three building codes thourhout the country: One in the south, BOCA in the East and something else in the West. Here in New Jersey, one inspector made me take a screw from the double drywall that covered the I-Beam in the garage...if the screw was 1 1/4" he knew I was cheating but it was a 2" so all was well.
At another job the plans called for a single 5/8" on the garage ceiling and we finished the house and garage..then the inspector said to put another layer of 5/8" on the garage ceiiling. Just from experience I have learned these things and from the WTC collapse I don't understand why it's not code all over. Strange how different parts of the country have different building methods.
If you still see structural steel left exposed in residential building..well that is certainly mind boggling.
Great topic for an upcoming FHB article!
If you still see structural steel left exposed in residential building..well that is certainly mind boggling.
I've done 2 houses with up to 300 tons overhead, solely supported by exposed steel. A 3rd is underway. All inspected.
If enough jet fuel burns in here it'll probably all come down. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
"If you still see structural steel left exposed in residential building..well that is certainly mind boggling."
Not really. Look at the requirements for a wall and door between the garage and house. Most codes only require a limited rating.
The idea is not to save the building, but rather to slow the fire enough for people to get out. And you are not trying to empty a 50 story building, but a 1 or 2 story house with egress windows.
And you are not trying to empty a 50 story building, but a 1 or 2 story house with egress windows.
Yes, indeed that correct! It's just different codes in various parts of the country yet if your house if totally drywalled with 5/8" the insurance company offers a discount on your premium realizing that if a fire does occur the damage will not be as severe as with 1/2". Still, about $200.00 in material and labor to cover that I-Beam with 5/8" is money well spent. Take a look at the current situation in Florida..should a fire breakout will the fireman be there in 15 minutes?
Then why are garages required to use 5/8" instead of 1/2"?
"Then why are garages required to use 5/8" instead of 1/2"?"
Already answered. To restrict the fire long enough to evacuate.
BTW 2000 IRC only requires a single layer of 1/2" on the garage side and 1 3/8" solid door.
"yet if your house if totally drywalled with 5/8" the insurance company offers a discount on your premium"
Never had an insurance company ask me the thickness of DW on the walls. But they have asked manytimes about smoke dectors, fire/burglar alarms, fire extenguishers, dead bolts, distance from fire plug, and distance from fire station.
Already answered. To restrict the fire long enough to evacuate.
Then why isn't the entire house with 5/8? Why only 5/8"in the garage? You evacuate from the windows, front door and perhaps a side door..the garage is not the only escape route! The reason is I think because many dangerous and volatile products are stored in garages: cars, gasoline cannisters, paint, etc.
A fire in a garage can be explosive and very dangerous versus the rest of the house. That's why garages are 5/8" and with a living space of TJI on the ceiling double the 5/8".
BTW 2000 IRC only requires a single layer of 1/2" on the garage side
Yes, like like the rest of the house although on some occassions I have seen specs and done 5/8" on the inside of the house where the wall meets the garage.
Remove all the 1/2" in your house and change it with 5/8" and you will get an insurance discount..I did! Not many do it so the insurance company does not even ask.
DW is not going to handle an explosion, only fire.
"You evacuate from the windows, front door and perhaps a side door..the garage is not the only escape route!"
No one every suggested that the garage was the an escape route. Because that is where the fire is (in this case) it would not be.
The purpose of the DW on the garage side is to slow down the spread of fire INTO THE LIVING SPACE to give them time to escape.
The purpose of the DW on the garage side is to slow down the spread of fire INTO THE LIVING SPACE to give them time to escape.
Following that logic then the entire house should be 5/8" top allow them more time to escape. You assertion above then indicates that a fire in the garage would be more severe than in the house, to which I agree, then that steel I-Beam needs the full protection of what a single or double layer of 5/8" offers.
Isn't it true that wooden beam insteadd of the steel beam will structuraly last longer?
I don't have time to try to educate someone who's already convinced he knows it all. I have read three separate architect's papers and a book-length report about that disaster, including interviews with the original designing architects of the twin towers. I am also aware--as you seem not to be--that substantial changes to the fire codes for this type of structure were put forth as a result of those buildings' collapse. I took the time to learn this even though I will never personally design or build a skyscraper, because everything I learn about building is important even at the level of fixing some nice old lady's garden shed, if that's what I happen to be doing some week....
The information is available. I can't make you read it, and I couldn't make you believe it even if you did, if you don't want to. And I'm though trying.
It's not you that's going to be remodeling that guy's garage, anyway. I came into this thread with two viable ways to solve the original poster's problem...and you decided to get nasty so you could feel superior to 'remodelers'. I'm though wasting my time on you.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
and you decided to get nasty so you could feel superior to 'remodelers'. I'm though wasting my time on you.
I was just teasing the remodelers a little. I also read the thread first and thought about the clips but did not reply, so when Shoeman brought it up, I second it. Must admit though when I started reading about dadoing and drilling the I-beam I stopped reading. I mean why complete this when the solution is so simple. What it comes down is that new ideas are not readily accepted even though commense sense tells you that it's OK.
NOVA had a rerun of the WTC disaster on Tuesday night and they said that the impact of the planes and the ensuing fires brought them down..once again commense tells me thata's enough for me to know.
>Must admit though when I started reading about dadoing and drilling the I-beam I stopped reading.
You mean to demean drilling a beam like that? I gave it as just one option, not the only one, and not even a recommended one for him. Just trying to expand the field of vision a bit. I used it for wrapping an exterior beam be/c it gave a stronger, more wind-resistant attachment than any of the alternatives. Would you have preferred that it never be mentioned? Should I feel bad for having mentioned something you perceive to be so insignificant?
Should I feel bad for having mentioned something you perceive to be so insignificant?
Oh no Chicken don't feel bad..feel good about it. Hey, I read your note on the boulders you got in front of your house..furget the clips man, suggest you wrap the whole house with steel I-Beams ..you good at iron work I hope.
But to drill an I-Bean on the ceiling in the garage..how long does it take? Ok, so now I realize that you remodelers don't spend any time at drywall supply houses, heck, most of you guys hire a drywall sub and then moan about the poor finishing. Bet Jeff Buck drills them too! ;-) Hint: Spend more time at the drywall supply house and less at Home Depot will ya'all!
"like a rolling stone...."
Oh no Chicken don't feel bad
Apology! I thought your call sign was "Cloud Chicken" - sorry!
Hey, I resmble that remark!
Both old, and a remodeler.
Course I did bookmark the site for those clips,.... I might learn something inspite of my age.
Dave
I might learn something inspite of my age.
"your never to old to learn". I'm always intrigued with new tools and methods..figure more brains are better than one and if someone comes up with a new method surely it must be easier, cheaper and faster...in most cases that is.
Great clips but only if you're boxing in a beam. Usually I am boxing in ducts, beams, pipe and wire chases using 1 1/2" steel stud. Mini wall both sides and drywall. This is standard commercial construction.
Bruce
Edited 9/4/2004 2:37 pm ET by Brewster1
Edited 9/4/2004 2:38 pm ET by Brewster1
Hello all Here in Mn. I have a drywall supply house that has just what you are looking for. I use them to cover beams in basements and they sound just like what you are using. I will even use them to attach steel studs the long way if the situation merits. I have always looked to other trade to improve my own. ( Carpenter mostly finish) Nice to see so much knowledge spread around the old firepit. Mike
Edited 9/4/2004 7:39 pm ET by mitremike
Slickest install I've ever seen was in metal. They put 1 5/8" channel on either side of the beam (just screwed it into the existing ceiling structure). Then, the framer took regular 3 5/8 track and set it in the channel on edge, 16" O.C. They put a laser on it to get a line, and marked each stud for level. Then the side of the track was cut and folded under the beam. The lasers were up on the other side to mark both width & level, the channel was cut for width & folded up to reach the track o nthe other side of the beam. Voila, "U" shaped studs right along the beam. Two corner beads held it all in place--that and two layers of 5/8 (but that was spec for that room, anyway).
I think it would matter if you were covering this steel just to hide it, or covering it for fire protection. If you're trying to do the latter, gluing the strapping on with construction adhesive wouldn't be my first choice.
I've seen those heavy-duty Hilti powder-actuated machines work and they're pretty impressive. They'd definitely do the job in a serious, permanent way. But they're a special beastie, with a chamber which takes the explosion from the shell and collects the hot gases to drive a piston/pin- that slows things down enough that you can actually fire a fastener into 1/2" thick steel and not have to worry about ricochets etc. The fasteners are special too, and the ones rated for 1/2" steel aren't cheap. There's a big difference between the Hilti units and those cheap-o Remington toys you find at the local building box that nobody should ever get them confused.
I think it was CloudHidden who had the note about wanting to show off his beams after what they cost him- I can understand that! Steel's gone nuts in price over the past 18 months. In my garage/shop, the ridge beam will kept exposed so I can use it for a beam carriage and chain-fall hoist. (the beam in question's a piece of wide flange left over at work. It's way heavier than the structure needs, but the price is right, and don't worry- I've checked the stress and deflection and I can max out my hoist without even coming close to pullng my roof down!)
I would do it the way Dave Mason said above, but with one difference: I would wire one layer of drywall tight to the post with sheet metal corners. the second layer can be screwed to the corners and corner bead clinched on over that. Fast, Easy, Cheap, No wasted space. You've already got the tools (which might be an argument against this doing it this way).
Ron
good idea - now here's another one - see if your photo software can resize that to about 5% of the size it is now or only 5% of us can download it.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Sorry, forgot to reduce the picture. This should look better.
Frame with steel studding and drywall with corner beads.
Bruce
Thanks muchly
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Show us a price comparison between steel studs and track, and 2x4s.
I'm in Ontario, Canada and 2x4 Steel is $2.80 vs 3.50 Wood. Price is really not the issue, steel is easier to erect and box in a beam. I used $1.80 1 1/2 steel stud to box in the beam. Best of all it does not warp. We did our basement in steel studding.
Bruce
If you don't want to drill or drive a fastener, you can use several of the beam clamps that electricians use.
I have always built a 1/2" ac plywood box around these kind of beams with a little glue and finish nailer - that is my sheetrock to skim coat. it keeps the profile of the beam small and the headroom maximized. I build the three sided "box" and hang it on two nailers along side the beam screwed to the floor joists. Its always worked out well, also in the low headroom areas (like basements of old..) it's tough to damage the plywood/sheetrock. corner bead is optional.
I would never rely exclusively on the adhesive to hold the drywall or sub-framing in place. I would build a frame around the beam (metal stud or wood) and attach the drywall to the frame. It is much more predictable and less likely to crack or otherwise fail.
JR
Drop the ceiling to make it even (and hide) the beam.
I cant even begin to tell you the problems that would solve. But the HO wants to keep the high ceiling(10.5'). I think I have the problem solved anyway. The "Dado"ed 2x4 worked great.
Glad it worked out for ya.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Ive used powder act fasteners too nail 2x4s to steel beams and they worked great, just get the right type powder pellets and right length nails . And wear safety glasses, clamp wood to beam so you can use both hands. Also a helper is a good idea. Dogboy
Simple way I wrap I-beams all the time. Glue a 1-1/2 x 1-1/2 nailer to the UPPER SIDE of the lower flange and secure temporarily with clamps. It must be even with the edge of the beam. Since it is on TOP of the lower flange, the glue does not carry the weight of the wrap. It is carried by the beam.
To secure the upper side of your chosen wrap, glue a similar nailer on the under side of the upper flange. Clamp or block until set. This will allow you to secure drywall there if desired, and/or attach a cove molding. Again, the glue will not bear weight, the lower nailer will. You might be lucky and have a 2-by already on top of the upper flange.
If you want drywall all around, simply glue the bottom piece to the beam and add mud-in corners. You can build a 3-sided box from pine or MDF and hang it from the bottom nailer, and secure the upper part to the top nailer.
A quality construction adhesive on the nailers will be MORE than enough to hold even a heavy wrap, as the bottom nailer is setting on the beam, carrying all the weight--NOT THE ADHESIVE! Use screws or a pneumatic finish-nailer to attach to the glued-on nailers , NOT a hammer and nails LOL. There is NO problem hanging drywall to the bottom of the beam with just construction adhesive. A box beam can be pre-built and hung, or the sides attached, and the bottom screwed and wood-glued or dadoed to the sides.
No frame to build and hang. No weird tools needed. Adhesive only holds nailers in place while the wrap is applied--all the weight is born by the lower nailer with is setting on the beam.