Anyone have any interesting “Your Fired” stories? I have more than a few. Some would say I’m an expert at this.
I got inspired to start this thread because of the nails in the board story that Piffin told.
I decided to post it in the business section because this is a serious business decision: every time. Whether you fire the bad apple or you keep him, he’s seriously affecting your business. Of course how you fire him can have some serious effects too. I won’t tell you that I’ve always done it right, but in my later years, I gotta admit, I’m pretty good.
I’ll start off with a rather mundane one: A young guy shows up and asks for a job. I do the onsite interview thing and decide to hire him. “Come on in tomorrow morning-we start at 7:00 am”. He enthusiastically thanks me, shakes my hand and agrees to be there in the morning.
At 7:10 am the next morning, he pulls up to the curb. I meet him as he gets to his back bumper. “Don’t bother getting out your tools” I bark. “If you can’t get here on time the first day, I can safely assume your probably going to get fired real soon anyways for tardiness!”.
Nothing else is said as we both part company. Basically, this guy fired himself before he ever got on the job-a new record!
blue
Replies
I would have given him a strict warning and fired him the next time. That was probably a little harsh.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Ed, I don't agree. I don't think it was harsh at all. I could call it "tough love", but I didn't really have any love for the guy. I didn't even know him yet I gave him a lifelong lession that he could take to the bank!
Maybe I should send him a bill for services rendered.
I've got harsh one.
We always worked with a relatively small crew, especially when you'd look at what we were standing up. We'd use wall jacks and common sense, but quite often, you still have to rely on good old fashioned manpower.
One day, we were rasing a wall and I had to pull out a few tricks. We had a new guy (less than a week) helping. At one point, something started to go wrong and the guy bolted his position, leaving the brace that he was in charge of unattended...briefly. Thankfully, the other guys dug in and did the right thing and the wall remained standing and no one was hurt, but the wall was still only at a 45 or 60 degree angle...not quite up yet. I got so angry that they guy was going to run that I fired him on the spot! I told him that if I couldn't count on him to do what I told him, when we all were at risk, I'd rather do it without him.
The guy sheepishly grabbed his tools and left. We managed to get the wall up with guys that I could count on to do what they are told.
I say that is harsh because it's probably not fair to a new guy to expect him to believe in me with his life, but out there on the jobsites, that is exactly what is going on and I don't tolerate much funny business. Maybe that's one reason that I've survived 30 plus years in the business without a serious incident.
I guess a reasonably smart manager would not have put the new guy in a position that was so important, but it's tough to find a non-important job on a heavy tall wall with a four man crew.
blue
>>I guess a reasonably smart manager would not have put the new guy in a position that was so important, but it's tough to find a non-important job on a heavy tall wall with a four man crew.Any thoughts on the guy who put his crew in that position?
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Last guy I had to let go started out as a reasonable employee.
A bit more interested in how fast he got something done than whether it was done right, but with some guidance, he was working out.
He gave me a few days notice that he needed a day off - that was fine.
A week later he told me that he used that day off to apply at a local factory and had taken an aptitude test to qualify. He was told that he scored well on the test.
From that point on, his work and attitude went downhill. He just knew that any day he would be called in to work for them.
After a month, he had not been called in but his work ethic was so shot, I let him go.
Terry
I'm pretty new to the management game. Before I struck on my own, I was a foreman for a general. I was building a decent size house with minimal experience helping. I was probably in over my head anyway. My boss always had these pure nimrods coming out when I needed manpower.
He was always running ads, so I had this juvenile delinquent kid come out ready to work without much for tools, but all the additude in the world. He worked for a week or so then mentioned he had a buddy needing work. I figured what the heck, can't get much worse.
The second guy was a decent worker, just lacked a way to work. I wanted to lose the first kid long before I did, but he was responsible for bringing his pal.
Finally had enough. Got the OK from the boss, built up the steam and told him to get lost. "You're wasting my time, bosses money, materials, etc, etc."
Immediately felt bad, told him he could work the rest of the day. This was about 9 am. After about 5 minutes, he looked at the time and said " Oh, I forgot. I have to go to court today. I have to go to get ready for that".
Needless to say that was about as peed as I'd ever been.
About 4 months later I was doing finishing touches inside. HO was there, house was all but moved into. In walks this same dirty smelly little punk. Seems he was working for the landscaper now. His new boss got an earful about keeping his riffraff out of a clean new house. All the kid wanted to do was say hi and no hard feelings. Yeah, I was up for that!LOL
Only time I'd ever fired anyone.
Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
When I was foreman on other crews, I never had to fire anyone. I would just tell the super in the office that so-and-so was not worth a damn or whatever, and that I would not work with them anymore. The office had hired them, the office got the honours of firing them. Worked out well.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yes, that's a good plan. If I'm ever in the situation again, you can bet that will be the way to go. I think I had to do it at least once. You know, get it out of the system so to speak.Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
i know it's time for someone to go when i dread the thought of going to work because i just don't want to put up with an employee..... when it get's to that stage, i take them aside and give them the news....
interesting flip side...
the quit....
i had one guy quit... just never came back to work after about two weeks....found out he was working down the street for himself...
also got a notice from Unemployment that he had filed.. so i filed a protest and we got a hearing...
hearing officer, me, and the former employee..
i says... i rally don't know why we're here: first , he quit without notice, and 2d .. he's working down the street.... hearing officer says..." is that true ?"
dummy says , " yes , but"...
claim denied
another one... sister asks me to hire her brother.. "ok we can fit him in.."
small addition with a full foundation... double planks spanning the cellar.. stripping the sidewall shingles off the old gable end... new guy is sitting on the planks , stripping... when he gets to shoulder height, i notice he ain't gonna stand up...
i walk over and mention that he has to stand up if he wants to keep stripping.. but there is no way he's gonna stand up on those planks over that chasm...he decided to seek other employment....
as for ending employment...
a lot of times i just lay them off... let them sign up for unemployment due to " lack of work"...often works best in a small town enviornment...
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
blue, been told I'm just "an exploiter of human flesh" so
they usually just quit before I can lower the axe....:)
I hired a guy that walked onto the roofing job site asking for a job. (Yeah, I know.) He lasted three days I believe.
He claimed that he was a genius and maybe that is true. I've met a few geniuses that wern't much good for nothin'. He did ask interesting questions.
He was slow as molasses. He claimed some experience shingling and it quickly became evident that laying shingles was all he wanted to do.
Watching him was painful he was so slow.
I set him to cutting shingles for the ridge and I went onto the roof to shingle. After a long time I peeked over the ridge to see what was taking so long. He was done cutting shingles and just sitting. I checked the time.
Ten minutes later he comes around saying he's done.
I went down and explained that he was indeed done. He was fired.
I went to the van and quickly calculated his check and gave it too him.
He just stood there motionless.
I said "You can leave now."
He said "I'm moving," still standing motionless.
"That's the problem, James. You think you're moving, but you're not!"
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
I've fired a number of people - some of them customers.
Now I'm mostly in the real estate business, but here's the story on the last firing:
I hired a woman as a real estate broker associate. She'd been a computer programmer for Boulder County, Colorado for many years. (That should have been the tip off, but I needed help and overlooked the questionable past.)
After a few months of grumbling she came to me for a check (after a sale of one of her listings). Policy is to bring the closing file to me to verify all docs before payment to the associate. She brought it and it was missing a document. I told her to get the doc and I'd pay her tomorrow. She blew! Said I didn't trust her, blah blah blah. I asked if she knew that such was our company policy. Yes, she knew. Did she know that this had happened before with other associates and that they had simply gotten whatever it took to complete the file (State requirements!). Yes, she knew. I said I thought she was taking it personally when it was simply company policy. She said, "I take everything that influences me personally." and then she followed up with, "I'm not sure you have the right to make such a policy."
I blew! It's my business. I make the policy... Who the he!! else would make policy, anyway!
I sent her license to the State next day. She went to work in a different office where, as she told me, "the broker is nicer". As 90% of all people who attempt a career in real estate do, she quit the business in another month or so.
"A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel." Robert Frost
"She'd been a computer programmer for Boulder County, Colorado for many years. (That should have been the tip off, but I needed help and overlooked the questionable past.)"You trying to compete with Mark Twain in the humour department today?You buried about four good laughs in just that one line. Funny how firing and hiring goes together in one thread, eh? Hire right and firing is not needed. I think blue is making a great point on that one.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I sincerely wish I knew much more about how to find and hire the right people.
Glad to provide any reason for a good laugh!"A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel." Robert Frost
Blue,
This could end up as one of the perpetual threads, like “What tool did you buy todayâ€.
Your opening story reminded me of my “First rule of Raisesâ€, Attendance!
Employees must get in all the time that is available to them to qualify for a raise. If they need more money and aren’t making a genuine effort at the max attendance available then their raise request is automatically denied. They obviously don’t need more money. More money for guys like that usually means they can afford to show up less. These guys are “Job Gypsiesâ€.
Which also reminds me of a good quitter’s story.
I had a young man working for me years ago who was a good hard worker but for one reason or another he could not ever get a perfect week’s attendance. He would repeatedly ask me for a raise and I would repeatedly show him his attendance record and tell him to get a raise you have to be dependable and attend work. “If you want more money, show up more!†Four out of five days is not going to be rewarded. The first time he ever got his full 40 in he came to me and asked for a raise and I said “No, once isn’t enough. You’ll need to do it more than once a year. I want to see you do it for the next three months.†He quit. I still laugh when I think about it. I hear he is doing well running his own cabinet shop these days. I wonder what his policy on raises is?
Edited 7/24/2005 6:59 pm ET by MRJALAPENO
Mr Jap, I've got a few quitting stories too.
An older guy showed up one day and wanted to learn how to frame. We had just set all the trusses the day before and it was plywood time. This was pre-Skytrak and crane days, so I first had the guy start hauling the plywood up the stairs (it was a two story).
After he got a decent amount of plywood up into the back room, I had him stack a supply (about 8) on a set of horses up through the trusses. "What next?" he asked. "Well, I guess it's time to get you up there and start laying them" I replied. Instantly a look of sheer terror appeared on his face. I knew right away that he was never, ever going to go up there.
Since we didn't need a guy that was afraid of heights, I quickly went to plan B. "On second thought, how about you just stocking all the other rooms?". His sheer terror was replaced with a look of relief.
About three hours later (he was overweight and slow), he finally managed to hump the last sheet up there. Now the moment of truth. "Well, I guess it's REALLY time for you to get up there and lay that roof". I could tell he had been contemplating this moment because the instant I said that, he keeled over and moaned loudly, holding his stomach. You would have thought that George Foreman had just landed his best belly whopper.
In the most pitiful voice that I've ever heard on a worksite, he exclaimed "I'm having an appendix attack. They happen all the time. I have to go to the hospital right now!". I quickly walked over to him and offered him a ride to the hospital, knowing full well that he didn't intend to go to one. "No, he replied, I'll just drive myself, this happens all the time and I'm used to it." I continued, "Can I at least help you walk downstairs, you look like you're in awful pain?". "No, I'll manage, I'll be back as soon as I get can." he muttered as he dissappeared down the stairwell.
That happened back in the early eighties, and I still owe him a half day's pay. He never filled out any paperwork so I didn't really know who he was or anything about him.
I kinda chuckle now and then when I picture him faking that attack. It was pitiful, but I did manage to get all the plywood stocked on the second floor free!
Who said there no such thing as a free lunch?
Blue
Blue, can you shoot me his number?
Got some 12' drywall needs moving.
Joe H
" More money for guys like that usually means they can afford to show up less. "Good point to think on...!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
I have shot myself in the foot (Sota speak) giving poor attending talent a raise. It just didn't help.
OK, Blue, Since we are rounding this discussion out with hiring, firing, and quitting, I have to tell about the one time that I was fired!It is one of my prouder moments, so I like to tell the tale. I can't really do it justice though, without all the gestures, and looks, and language that went along with the whole story! Now, Vince Carbonne could enjoy telling this one. He uses his hands as well as anyone with a Mediteranean heritage when speaking...That reminds me of the time that I was having coffee with my French Canadian buddy. He was telling the story about the fish that was "THIS BIG1!!!" as he spread his arms wide...
Unfortunately, a little old lady, all ninety pounds of her, was walking behind him at the time and his backswing clotheslined her as good as any linebacker ever took out a reciever on the sly...she went right down!where was I now - I had a winter job as a carpenter on a condo job in Colorado. one week the checks were late and the super and company men suspiciously disappeared about half an hour early that friday.We ( about forty carps on that job) waited half an hour or so that evening in the cold, and finally went home. We had been working five tens plus six on Saturday, so we came back Sat AM and milled around waiting for the super to show up. He was usually there first thing with the day's instructions. There was a lot of angry discussion about not working until we had checks in hand. It turned out that it was mostly just talk for most of them ( dang sheep! ) When the super showed up about twenty minutes late, he just started in on barking orders without a word about the missing paychecks. Most guys shuffled and starred at their toes. Super looked around until he saw me staring back at him, and I said, "It doesn't look like anybody here is going to get any work done, until we get paid, Dave."He said, "The checks will get here soon enough, now ..." and gave out a bunch of orders again. The sheep went to work while I was still standing there. I guess I have my own small insubordinate streak. " I already told you I want my check befoer I go back to work"So he called the office downtown and then told me where to go to get my check, that they were cutting one just for me - made me feel real special! So, down at the office, I got to wait for another half hour, reading magazines untill finally this big old boy, all full of bluster and intimidation, red in the face, comes bursting out of the back office, " So you're the one causing all that trouble, trying to get everyone to quit working blah blah blah..."Me - " no trouble at all, just expect my check on time"Him, more ranting and raving - I kind of enjoyed the show. You don't get to see someone act like a locomotive very often, puffing, and steaming, and making all sorts of odd noises...anyway, he finally wound it all up with throwing my check at me, and storming back into his office again. The secretary crawed back out from under her desk (well, maybe that was an exageration, but she looked scarred enough to want to dive under it) and I winked at her and left. Like they say in the TV comercials - BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE! This outfit held back a weeks wages when they did payroll and he had not paid me all my time, so I knew I wasn't fired, he was just blowing off steam...so since this all took up the better part of the AM, I just went home and then shopwed up at the job site the next monday like always. The crew got paid on Monday PM, if I recall...About two weeks later, I was bending over, toenailing some floor joists in, and out of the corner of my eye, (Maybe I even sensed a storm cloud hovering nearby ) I saw some fancy office shoes pointed my way. I looked over and up and saw that there were a couple of lodgepole legs standing in those slippers. Looking up a little further, I saw some arms crossed with unmistakable body language. by the time my eyes traveled all the way up to his, I could see that he was still - or again - red in the face, and little puffs of steam were starting to escape from his ears.I nodded and said howdy, and went back to what I was doing, thinking, "Wow, he sure does hold a grudge for a long time!" and he stormed off without saying anything.Later that PM, the super called me over and took an envelope out of his pocket. Asked if on the day the checks were late, did the owner tell me that I was fired? Nope! He made a lot of noise but he never used that word, and he didn't pay me all my time, like the law requires when you fire anybody..."Well, He wants me to fire you now. He swears that he fired you that day, so he was mad at me, thinking that I hired you back again behind his back! I told him you were one of our best men and that he shouldn't let you go, but he won't hear of it, so I'm sorry, but..."Anyway, that was a thursday, and by saturday, I had five small jobs all lined up, enough to take me through to the summer season, when I was swamped anyway.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
More money for guys like that usually means they can afford to show up less
Another builder told me this one. He hired a guy that would only show up 3 days per week. After a few warnings the builder asked him why he only shows up 3 days a week.
Guy's answer: "'cause I can't live on what I make just working 2 days."
Bowz
Dang, I about choked from snorting laughter reading that. I’m tell’n Ya!
did you overlook the skills & talent? One does not become a cabinet maker overnight.
Chipper,
<!----><!---->
“did you overlook the skills & talent? One does not become a cabinet maker overnight.â€<!---->
<!---->
No, I didn’t. That is why I didn’t yank the welcome mat to my jobsite out from under his feet completely. He was a benefit, when he showed up. But that kind of attendance behavior can spread through the ranks in attitude. It shows weakness on my part to keep him on despite the poor attendance. But with enough work and guys I usually had something for him to do, if he showed. And I liked him, he was a good guy. But if I have too many guys only showing up when they feel like it, it affects my income. How can I schedule work for a bunch of attendance slouches? Instead of now, maybe when?
<!---->
“When don’t cut it! Now! That’s what it takes. That means without hesitation too!â€
<!---->
When it gets like that I would just hire more people. I didn’t ever have too fire anyone. I would “Pull a Blue†on them and make them pack lumber till they found a reason to quit, usually with out notice. They didn’t tell me, and I didn’t notice.
<!---->
In his case he quit after I refused to reward his poor attendance. Now that he has employees, I wonder what his attendance policy is?
<!---->
You know, guys who only show three or four days a week will not get a full year’s experience in a full year. They may say they have four years experience but they really have two or three at best and it usually shows. They don’t stay around long because they can’t carry the load. Like water through a Goose.
<!---->
You know, guys who only show three or four days a week will not get a full year’s experience in a full year. They may say they have four years experience but they really have two or three at best and it usually shows. They don’t stay around long because they can’t carry the load. Like water through a Goose.
like i said, "one does not become a cabinet maker overnight." That fellow loves the work he does. He had to show up on a regular basis to obtain the skills of someone who opens up his own cabinet shop business. Good employees are sometimes hard to keep!
Those gtuys whjo work three out of five days don't get even half the experience, because they always get the crap jobs. The dependable help will get the choice of better work to do while a slacker gets the grunt work. So he condemns himself to forever being a grunt, making grunt wages
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin, <!----><!---->
You are right!<!---->
“A good cleanup man is hard too find, especially if he’s hiding!â€<!---->
That’s a quote from me, on my job, when the slacker shows up.<!---->
He had to show up on a regular basis to obtain the skills of someone who opens up his own cabinet shop business
You actually don't need skills to open a shop, just the money, you can hire in the skills
John
you need the skills to run it successfully, in my opinion! Its sorta hard to oversee an operation that is not yer expertise. People may try to buy their way into a business, but to keep it running year after year successfully, you have to know yer stuff.
money gets yer foot in the door, hard work, sweat, blood, tears keeps it going.
"Good help is hard to keep?" Just out of curiousity, do you ever go over to his cabinet shop & throw around some ideas, learn from one another? Being in the home building field, I would think it to yer advantage to keep an open mind?
you need the skills to run it successfully, in my opinion! Its sorta hard to oversee an operation that is not yer expertise. People may try to buy their way into a business, but to keep it running year after year successfully, you have to know yer stuff.
A female friend of mine, who had no experience with cabinets or millwork, ran a VERY lucrative high end cabinet/millwork shop. She decided that she could make money in the cabinet business, and started one from the ground up.
After she bought the building for her shop, and hired a manager. She never even set foot in the shop. She knew people, and put the right people in the right position.
she did not run the shop! The manager ran the shop.
Some guys never get to the interview with me. i've had their girlfriends and mothers approach me asking for a job for them.
if they ain't got the gumption to even talk to me about working ( that is what we do on my jobs as well as yours, unlike gooberment werk) then they ain't got the nuts to try to keep up on site.
LOL, even had one guy call me when I didn't need help, and then break down crying on the phone after hearing my rejection, bawling about how his wife was going to really give him H*** if he didn't find work soon!
I read an article not long ago, that the single most stressfull thing for a manageer to have to do is to fire someone. most executives who have heart attacks on the job, have them shortly after firing people. It souynds like you have by-passed that problem with your efficiency approach!
I fired another kid last winter. His story gets into the how and when of doing it right. the previous summer, he had exploded with a tempre tantrum on a roof. I simply told him to get down on the ground and cool off until he was ready to perform per my instructions. half an hour later, he was back at work.
I should add some background here. This kid (twenty something) had a very low IQ and some other developemental problems. His Dad is one of my star people, so between the two things, a bit more patience than normal was required.
The next day, he and I took a drive, to tend to some small jobs together. I planned it that way, and he found himself sitting in the cab between jobs for a talk with the boss. I explained to him how things were, and why I did not want temper tantrums on my jobs, safety and customer relations being tops on the list, along with overall morale amoung the other guys. He apologized and agreed. I finished up with a warning that if he EVER acted off like that again, he would find his #### on the street at the speed of light.
He was more or less productive for the next several months untillsome other things in his personal life added up and he lost it again. Long story about all that which won't be repeated here, but one day, looking out at a delivery being unloaded, I suddenly saw him and another worker squaring off. I hollered and the other hand swore that he would not work on the same job with the kid again. but before he had even finished speaking, I told the kid to get his gear and hit the road. That other worker is a guy who has been with me for twelve years and in all my thirty some years of driving nails, I have never seen or worked with a more mellow, easy going fellow, so the fact that he was raising a fist against that kid, along with kids prior history is all I needed to know.
Later, other guys on the job told me that this was something that had been brewing for a couple weeks with Kid needling Carpenter and asking for it, even once making a statement that he wished he could get fired.
Where all this goes, is that he filed a claim against me with the state labour board. The caseworker dropped the whole thing once he discovered that I had documented a prior warning.
And there is no ongoing ill-will with his father.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
"Where all this goes, is that he filed a claim against me with the state labour board. The caseworker dropped the whole thing once he discovered that I had documented a prior warning."
Piffin, when you document an infraction and take disciplinary action, does the State require you to give the employee a copy, or do you do so as a matter of course? Or not.
BTW, with regard to firing the fellow for defying you after being told to pull nails from braces, I agree that waiting till the end of day was a good tactic. You gave the whole crew a chance to mull the incident over in their heads and come to their own conclusion: this defiant dude is a hazard to the crew's health...so he deserves whatever the boss dishes out to him. This way your crew is onside rather than feeling the dudester was hard done by...and then worrying they may be next.
I honestly don't know what this state requires on that. Ihave a habit of documenting things with notes in my daybook. I was taught when a reserve cop to do so, and have seen architects use that to their benefit. So safety meetings, disciplines, etc as well as who worked that day on what job and what got acomplished all go into my daybook. I write in it while warming up the truck to drive home at end of day.I don't even know if the rest of the crew saaw that incident with nails, though guys have a way of "knowing" certain things. That guy and I were around on the back of the building together. The day before, I had noticed a lot of nails being left sticking out and gave a talk to everyone as a gorup with out pointing any fingers, but making it known that I didn't want anyone getting hurt. Nobody tattled, I figured out who it was by seeing it myself, and I'm sure the crew figured it out.But I don't like to do anything that ges tempers up or nerves rattled. More mistakes can ensue when guys aren't focused on what they are doing and they can either get hurt or make expensive mistakes with the job. So a blow-up mid-day can cause injuries.Tell you how I learned that - I was once young and dumb, and full of ***. I was on a roofing crew and smarting off at a crew member on the ground. He'd had a baad night and was a bit hung over. He was also about twice as big as I was, physically. I pushed tio too far and he grabbed a half block, 8x8x8, and threw it at me. I was all the way up on the ridge of a ranch and that block just missed my shins as it sailed through. That little act was enough that he released his steam and calmed down, but there were several damaged shingles on the other side of the roof, and some rather upset masons back there who just missed finding out why they should have been wearing hard hats. Guess who got to replace shingles? Me. On my own time. Guess who got fired? I felt bad about it and called to apologize. He and I worked together on another job the next year and all was fine between us, but because we had both learned a lesson. Me with my mouth and he with his temper.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
But I don't like to do anything that ges tempers up or nerves rattled. More mistakes can ensue when guys aren't focused on what they are doing and they can either get hurt or make expensive mistakes with the job. So a blow-up mid-day can cause injuries
I agree, a blow up mid day can be bad, that's why I now use a very quiet "Your going to have to leave now." The next words out of their mouth result in "You have to gather your things now. Your off the clock." If they don't start packing immediately and want to talk I say "If you don't leave immediately, I'll have to call the police and have you arrested for tresspassing".
I've never had a discussion longer than that since I figured it all out.
Sometimes, they chirp on their way out. I always get a small chuckle when they tell me I'm a big a-hole, something which I already know. All bosses are a-holes....it's the law of the land!
blue
blue,
I have about 5 more amusing stories about guys I have fired-------------
but I am not gonna tell 'em
cause I realized about 2-3 years ago that EVERY time I have to fire someone---it reveals just as much amout MY failings----as it reveals about the guy getting fired.
don't get me wrong------they all DESERVED getting fired.
But----I should NEVER be an employer.
you know how Mike Smith says he knows its time for someone to go when he dreads going to work and dealing with the guy?????
Well for me----that feeling usually starts the INSTANT I hire somebody------from that moment on I start dreaming of time I can let 'em go.
I don't like to have to tell people what to do----and I don't like being told what to do. I hate babysitting, dealing with all of THEIR personal baggage----I don't understand how people can NOT show up on time----- I don't understand an attitude of " I will stand here next to work that obviously NEEDS to be done----untill you absolutely MAKE me do it"---- the whole " just enough to get by "attitude. and I hate selling enough to keep THEM busy.
and frankly---- I hate explaining the same things over and over and over------------ you would think once I show you where to put something---or how I want something done----that a guy would do it THAT way all the time.
so---for me--- having employees is a CONSTANT low-level battle with continuos irritations
and I am sure I am no prize to be around either.
so---any body I fire ---reflects a failure on MY part to arrange my business in such a fashion that employees are not necissary.
but I have been working for 3 years to correct that problem---and I am just about there.
Be having no employees,
Stephen
Regaurdless of THEIR faults------ I am ultimately responsible for the situation
and frankly---- I hate explaining the same things over and over and over------------ you would think once I show you where to put something---or how I want something done----that a guy would do it THAT way all the time.
so---for me--- having employees is a CONSTANT low-level battle with continuos irritations
Some good stuff there, Stephen. I can relate to all of that. It baffles me why some people simply will not do as they are told.
John
Stephen,
No quotes, I loved it all!<!----><!---->
I guess having employees sucks because being an employee sucks.<!---->
I once had a guy tell me "Minimum wage, minimum workâ€<!---->
I replied. “And there’s no work like unemploymentâ€<!---->
He’s a cabinetmaker too these days, and still only works when he feels like it.<!---->
Edited 7/25/2005 9:35 am ET by MRJALAPENO
A few years ago I was working for a builder and we needed to add a couple of experienced carpenters. I had not been satisfied with the talent the local paper had provided so my boss turned the interview process over to me. I was the superintendant and the job was about twenty miles out of town.
I had trained and fired quite a few people in my daze as a framer but this was the first time I had used a formal interview process. The house we were building was 10,000 feet of ICF walls with a 16:12 roof, two Mansard sections and 24 dormers. My crew at the time were hard working young men that had never done a hip roof before.
I developed a questioner that was designed to tell me if a applicant had good knowledge of framing techniques ( ten questions about roof framing such as calculating rafters, hip and ridge lengths).
Interviewed three carpenters that week. None of them passed my test. However my boss hired them anyway and sent them out to work. His theory was that he had paid for an ad and darn well was going to hire someone from it.
The first firing came after I noticed that seven windows (20" wide) weren't laid out properly in a curved ICF wall. I had carefully laid these windows out on the floor. He just ignored my layout and started tying steel and quadlock above these windows. He managed to get three rows (12" per row) above the windows. Took about three hours (with three guys) to unstack and relocate windows. He never understood why they needed to be so perfect. The next morning one of the men he was working with confides in me that he was smoking dope while working on a scaffolding 12-15 feet in the air. When he rolls in I send him to town to collect his last check. Still never understood what he had done wrong. Of course the dope was a one and done thing for me.
The second firing was a finish carpenter (even though I was trying to hire an experienced roof framer). I spent days trying to get the molasses out of his boots. He was a good guy so he lasted three weeks before I let him go. He broke down and started crying then got defensive and started to remind me that he had never said that he was a framer to which I said "my point exactly".
The third was hired at the same time and was actually quite competent. Week one I was quite impressed. Weeks two and three he was doing nice work but rate of completion started slowing. Middle of week four he was cutting a crawl space access. I walked up behind him and noticed that the underside of the plywood hatch had a drawing of an American Eagle. He was actually quite a good artist but it was apparent that he had spent half a day drawing this picture. I gave him a warning that his speed must improve and if he was caught doodling again he would be finished. After two more weeks I had had enough. He would not believe me and went as far as driving into town to talk to the boss. Well the boss sent him packing.
Needless to say another ad went into the newspaper. Went through interview process again turning up a couple of good apprentices but no first rate framers. Managed to finish the job by training the carpenters that I had. Spent a lot of time describing, drawing and showing the carpenters how to do it. Finished project was beautiful.
Boss was a smaller remodeler and had originally hired me to run his new construction. Needed to send some of his carpenters back to him that were not able to start from scratch. ICF walls included about 1200 yards of concrete including 35 foot radius tower walls with a wine cellar blasted out of solid rock.
Owen Roberts Group
10634 East Riverside Drive # 100
Bothell, WA 98011
http://www.owenrobertsgroup.com
I never get to do the hiring. Burns my butt when someone like your talking about gets carried along for months or years contributing nothing then all of a sudden managements shocked when you've had enough.
In my former life working for a railroad contractor I somehow got delegated as the father of problem children. If they were on their last leg I got them. They either left revived and rejuvenated or fired. Most just quite. The ones that saw the light are still considered close freinds and we still keep in touch years later.
It gets pretty lonley when your standing toe to toe with someone 6'4" 240lbs.(I know this cause he kept telling me over and over like I cared.) And your 5'8" 200lbs. (that was a few pounds ago) And he wants to whip your #### in the middle of nowhere Mississippi. That's where a good war face comes in handy.
Look me up at Riverfest, I got a couple of those stories.
We are all in this together.
http://www.hay98.com/
I've fired a few, over the years. One guy was the class clown, very popular with the crew, and a lot of the customers. But too much goofing off, not paying attention, and smart-mouthing got him fired. I thought the crew would be mad, next day they thanked me. Said it was hard to concentrate on work with him making jokes all day long.
Once fired a real nice, conscientious framer, because he was deaf. Which I knew when I hired him, but figured we could work around it. Problem was, I was framing big custom homes, and all his experience was in commercial work. I had to stop and draw pictures several times a day. Finally cut him loose. He understood, no hard feelings there.
Once managed a retail furniture store, and fired a delivery driver for sideswiping a parked car (tore up the car and our new truck) because "I guess I just wasn't paying attention" - not even any traffic on the road! I fired him, and the Labor Board called to let me know that driving a company truck into a parked car because he wasn't watching where he was driving was - 'not a valid reason' - for fining someone!!! (we paid a premium in unemployment).
Another skinny kid used to come around, asking for work. I told him that I would keep his name and call him when we needed help. Came around real regular, very polite, asking if we were hiring yet. Then he started growing huge muscles, almost overnight. One time he came by, we needed help. But, I told him, you have to pass a drug screen - so I hope you haven't been taking steroids. (I really didn't know if they even screend for that). His normally calm demeanor suddenly went hostile, and he stormed out, with a few choice adjectives for me. That was one I was really glad I didn't hire!
I was fired once, and proud of it. Years ago I worked on a large renovation. The building was almost a city block long, and the sidewalk was to get a pedestrian walkway for safety. This particular sidewalk sloped downhill like a downhill slalom ski ramp.One crew was supposed to install 4x6 posts on 4'-0 centers ,down the entire sidewalk. I was supposed to sheath the posts with plywood .The post crew cut a stick 4'-0 long,layed it on the plates,marked the end .Then moved the stick down again and repeated this asinine layout. Telling this crew that the 4'-0 centers had to be taped on a level line fell on deaf ears ( dumb ears would be more accurate).
I figured as soon as they saw the problem with the sheathing they would change there methods. The first sheet just made the next post by 1/2",second sheet fell short of the post by inches.They told me the sheathing was my problem.
This was about 9:00 am, I waited for the foreman to come out, did not go looking for him as I am not a rat. 2:00 he comes out to the pedestrian bridge. I explain to him what the problem was and why I did not look for him earlier.The carpenter that was running the posts was named Joe,the foreman tells me " Joe is my lead man,you follow him" .I told him "If Joe is your lead man your a dumber %#@&% than he is.
I was fired , so was the foreman a week later when they had to nail a train car load of 2x4's horizontally down the street so the sheathing could be applied.
mike
Never Burn your bridges when quitting or firing someone. I am currently using the first framer that I worked for as a youth. He laid me off after one too many mondays when I would call his wife[no cell phones then] to tell him I was at my girlfreind's house in Syracuse. I lived around Boston so the drive was a little long.
I now use him to frame my smaller additions. He is semi retired and does just about any kind of job I throw at him.
As for a bad firing I once went to an oldies bar in Providence RI and spent the weekend on a boat with some people I met there. On Monday I went to the jobsite and one of the builders who ran the job was complaining about his kids and their friends making a huge mess of his boat. Later that afternoon his daughter comes to the site with my watch that I left on the boat.
I don't know if it was the fact I was dating his little girl or the fact the boat was left a mess but it was easy to understand that I was no longer his employee anymore...WOMEN!!!
Yer lucky ALL he did was fire you!
I think most of you got it easy framing as your crews are small. I work in residential highrise construction. All concrete and in Vancouver with the Olympics coming their are no good guys left. I took a job last summer working for a new company that was an offshoot of one of our large developers. They started off bad and the job kept going that way. The company refused to fire anyone so you can guess about the dead beats we kept around. I was lead hand on a landscape slab over the parkades. MY super sent some carpenters that came from a labour pimp (these guys get paid in cash weekly and most have little to know work ethic.) Anyway 2 guys shows promise one was great as they were partners on other sites so I hired them direct. The good guy quits or something happened. I am left with his friend. Everything he does needs to be redone. So he gets sent done to do an infill in the slab. should take 3 hours with a helper he took along. Next day I go down and check on them very little is done . I asked what the problem was, I get all the exuces you could think off and then he quits because I said a few things about how long it should take.
Well later that day my super comes over and starts giving me the gears because he quite. I replied we should get things done faster then as we do not have to fix his mistakes. Later that day I quite you should have seen the look on the supers eyes. Never seen one beg me to stay. Had 8 job offers within a week.