I have an old Bostich 15ga angled finish nailer that is starting to go south, and I am shopping for a replacement.
I know I could do worse than just buy another Bostich (mainly so I could use up the nails in my inventory).
But because Hitachi guns get such high marks around here, I have mostly been buying that brand when I added to or replaced other nail guns over the past year or so.
(Hitachi) http://tinyurl.com/bnt4o
But then I recently bought a Cadex 23ga pinner (because of recommendations here), which is an extraordinarily fine gun, and I understand it was made by Max. so I started looking at their 15 ga finish gun.
(Max ) http://tinyurl.com/9z2zc
The Max is about $65 more than the Hitachi (on Amazon), both have easy depth adjustments, each can be switched back and forth between bump fire and trigger activated, and both use the Senco style 34 degree nails. And the Hitachi has that nifty blower.
I like the feel and ergonomics of the Hitachi (which I can buy locally), but I have not picked up the Max (which I would have to buy online).
I would value any comments from Max users, since I would guess most of you have either owned or at least used Hitachi’s.
Also, are there any other guns in this category I should be considering?
“It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts.”
John Wooden 1910-
Replies
I think both are very fine guns. Maybe for you it should come down to which one would be more easily serviced in your area. In my area nobody services MAX guns. Either way, I highly doubt you'll be disappointed with either gun.
I have the Max, and it works great. Hitachi is probably the one I would buy if I had it to do all over. Just because it was cheaper.
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It's only satisfying if you eat it.
If I read what you're saying correctly, you don't think the Max is worth the extra $65, right?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
It seems like nobody is having problems with the Hitachi, so I would say it's just as good as the Max.
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It's only satisfying if you eat it.
I also have the Max, which I bought in my area; they ordered it from their other store and I paid $230 because they had one left on a special buy. They usually run a bit more.
I love the MAX gun, and I've used Senco's, old and new. The MAX is just built EXTREMELY well. You don't have to switch bump or repeat fire. You press and fire and it won't fire again if you bump it till you release the trigger. To rapid fire you just, first, press the trigger and then bump away all you want. It works well for easy whichever way you want to nail without stopping to switch a thing.
If I had not known about the MAX's, I'd have chosen the Hitachi. Their guns are well built and function well and feel great, I just bought their NT65M 16ga. since all here want to buy the 16ga., not the 15ga.. Pity, I don't get to use the MAX as much as I'd like (that's the only reason I bought the 16ga.).
The Max has a FANTASTIC nail rail. It is extruded aluminum and very ROCK SOLID, and the spring is extremely robust (huge), looks like you'll never have a loose one down the line; at least that's the feeling you get from it.
It won't hold an extra new clip of nails, ready to load, like the Sencos used to (I always liked that), but not a problem.....actually with their design when you want to change your nail lengths and remove the ones you are currently using , the MAX makes it so you don't have to dig that small bunch out of the rack, like I've had to with every other finish gun I've had my hands on. You just pull the spring keeper back to locked open position and tip the nose up and the back down and those nails nails just fall right out, every one or them.....NO muss or fuss. That I like very much.
Something a bit different is that the head/handle and the rail are not lined up right on top of each other. It is like the Hitachi 2 1/2" 16ga. with the blower, slightly 5 degrees or so shifted, if you know what I mean. I worried it would handle odd, but, that has not been true. I love using this gun. You can remove the nose guard and put it in it's out-of-the-way spot on the gun till you want it back on, nice.
With the gun/magazine none line up, putting a Senco hook on it (I do this on every gun I have) is a little tricky....I found if I put it on the left side and tilted it down more for the hand to grab cleanly it works just fine...it just looked a bit "off" at first, but form follows function and now I still love to use it.
Also, it will really sink a nail (adjusted and no nose guard) when you want to finish toe-nail something....much more than any other gun I've had, handy once in awhile.
If I lost it, somehow, I'd definitely replace it again....I just love a well made gun and, if I'm able, I'll pay a bit more for it.
Also, you can cut a slot in your case for the hook and still have the case to use....worked on the 15ga. MAX and the 16ga. Hitachi.
Edited 1/29/2006 7:16 pm ET by zorrosdens
Edited 1/29/2006 7:19 pm ET by zorrosdens
Edited 1/29/2006 9:50 pm ET by zorrosdens
Edited 1/29/2006 10:25 pm ET by zorrosdens
You build a persuasive case for the Max. What's your opinion on whether or not it's worth the extra 65 bucks?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Expense and value is a subjective and kinda personal taste thing for most of us....I'm a bit weird on good tools if I can AFFORD them....doesn't always go hand in hand. I do believe (even) I would be very satisfied and real happy with the Hitachi....I would have bought it if I had not found out of MAX and their "quality". It's really my holdover from my very younger days and the way Senco used to build all their tools...they were extremely well made. You know how most things go today....the forces that be are just changing and it is the rare find to get the hard metal and extruded and less plastic things.
To be short....I do think it is worth it (only time and usage and how well it actually holds up will tell). The couple of things that I see it do, like the toenail thing and the way the nails effortlessly fall out if you like. It feels "that much better" when I use it. To me it is, that's just me. It is built a bit better in some of it's components...but, you will love the Hitachi, I know, if you buy it, though I've not used that particular Hitachi gun. It felt great in MY hand, anyway.
Edited 1/30/2006 6:49 pm ET by zorrosdens
Edited 1/30/2006 6:54 pm ET by zorrosdens
Well, you convinced me............I was using that old Bostich gun today, and having all sorts of problems with it. I just about got in my truck and motored down to pick up the Hitachi, but then I got to thinking about all the things you've said about the Max.So I figured I could nurse the Bostich along for a few more days, and ordered the Max when I got home tonight.I probably would be perfectly happy with the Hitachi; but I that 23 ga Cadex pinner (made by Max) kind of blew me away with its exraordinary quality, I figured, what the heck is another $65 to get the Max 15 ga........ I can't afford a Ferrari, but I can afford a Max. You went to a lot of effort to write out your thoughts on the Max, and I want you to know I appreciate it.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
You'll be very happy with the Max. --------------------------
It's only satisfying if you eat it.
It's always nice to get a bit more detail if you are thinking on going the extra buck for some "elitist" type of tool. Kind of like if I ever buy another compressor I'd like to think I COULD buy one of the Thomas's. Hope the choice is to your liking. I'll be interested to know what your impressions are after abit of use, others will too. You may not work in the field, like I do, but if you ever hit a nail-plate behind drywall or a drywall screw head while applying moulding, you REALLY feel it kick. Pretty powerful...maybe I've just been too long nailing those 16ga. nails instead of the 15's. Wish I got to use the 15ga. more regularly...just glad to have a REAL finish gun when I get the chance...LOL...just this guy's opinion, LOL.
AND, if you put a Senco hook on it also put an SAE washer on top of the hook, you won't have to feel like you will be having to over-tightening the fitting to secure the hook tight. Good Luck.
Edited 1/30/2006 9:33 pm ET by zorrosdens
Edited 1/30/2006 9:43 pm ET by zorrosdens
I have one of those Senco hooks on my framing gun; doesn't work too well, so I think I will move it to the new Max. BTW, do you know about the Dead On hook? it is recommended by one of the ace framers around here, Tim Uler, and he always seem to have a line on the good stuff.http://tinyurl.com/85oqs********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Thanks for the tip...I'll have to look it up on WED. I love the Senco hook, it goes deep enough in a bag NOT to fall out if the hose gets pulled a little,once in awhile. Use that washer, it usually makes it right and makes for no possible "swivel movement".
When I first tried my MAX, I thought it was louder hitting than what I remembered from my other 15's. At first you may think it's too loud, might be startling, but that passes quickly once you feel what it does; could just be me not using 15's much lately. It works very well though and wait till you compare the nail magazine with the Hitachi's.....a little nite and day, not to try and just knock their gun though, most guns now lighten that up with at least some plastic; the MAX's metal will remind of the better days.....makes me sound old, huh. LOL.
Edited 2/1/2006 7:03 pm ET by zorrosdens
I bought four of the Dead-On hanges site unseen. I hate them myself. They're the only thing I can find that will fit a Hitachi coil nailer though. You can't really thumb the trigger with those hooks. Might take a grinder and take one of the hooks off. Don't really need both and it just makes the gun too wide for my taste.
The best hook for Hitachi stick nailers is made by Tool Hangers Unlimited. It folds out of the way when you don't need it and doesn't make the gun any bulkier, unlike the Dead On hangers.View Image
Thanks for the feedback on the Dead-On hangers. I don't spend a lot of time hanging out in rafters, so a hook is less important to me than it would be to you. But there are lots of times when I have to hold the thing between my legs, and that's getting old. I trust Tim's advice a lot, but one of the reasons I didn't simply order one is because the web site pic is crappy, and it wasn't clear to me exactly where the thing attached and how it worked. So I procrastinated. Now I'm glad I did.I just looked at the Tool Hangers hook, and folding out of the way sounds like a nice feature. I remember you have a 15 ga Hitachi, and I wonder if you use a hook for that gun?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Depending on how you configure a hook on the MAX 15ga., it is a bit trickyer than the guns that have a straight line-up grip/magezine situation. The MAX's magezine is shifted to the laft of the grip and with the angle up toward the grip, when you put the hook for a right-hander there is a small "window" for it to work and have good room for your hand; (also bend/pull the hook out from the gun a bit and all is well). It will work when you get it right and it will be the kind of thing that is always there without being in your way "hardly" ever. The ones that fold out, if like the ones that I used to use on my Skil 77's, are great for everything 2x's and all but I think the Sencos are better since you are usually moving constantly and the physics work better and more universal for usage.
Edited 2/1/2006 8:41 pm ET by zorrosdens
Edited 2/1/2006 8:41 pm ET by zorrosdens
That Max 15 ga arrived in today's mail. I unpacked it, fired off a few nails, and it is everything you said it was -- great magazine, effective depth adjustment, good ergonomics. You said it might be noisy, compared with other nailers in that class, but I didn't find it so. It does look like it would be tricky to get that Senco hook on the gun and positioned so it is useable. You attach it under the air nipple (with a washer, I remember) -- is that right?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Yep....and I thought just like you did...how do make this work like I used to, this gun has that offset in it. All my other gun to that date were straight line up design. Now my MAX and my Hitacchi 16ga. NT65M have this offset design (makes me wonder if MAX designed their gun). First I went and put the hook on the RIGHT side of the gun and lined it up for best hand and "slip into the bag" setup. You just had to turn it slightly to hang it and turn your hand a bit to regrab it. After using it this way awhile, it felt troublesome at times. So I deciced to try the LEFT side as I do on my other guns.
If you place the hook on the LEFT and swivel it down toward the top of the magezine, but leave enough room to let the lip of your bag slip into it and slightly "pull/bend" it out from the gun to your liking, you'll find this works beautifully. It will look a bit odd at first to you, but once you use it you'll see it is form following function and it just does work for all purposes. You'll just have to get your utility knife out and do a little whittling on the plastic to be able to use your case as I did. A bit of work for a very fine tool to use is worth it in the end and for the time you will use it. I did not have this trouble when I put the hook on the offset Hitachi as their magezine is not angled up to get in way of the usual hook on the LEFT side setup. I still carved the case to fit the hooked Hitachi, too.
Edited 2/4/2006 11:25 am ET by zorrosdens
Edited 2/5/2006 6:22 pm ET by zorrosdens
Thanks --- trying to get this hook set up on hte gun is on my list for this afternoon.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Correction to BOTH the last posts I made to you.....REVERSE THE HOOK "HANDING" I TALKED ABOUT!!!! I first tried the hook on the RIGHT SIDE (the reverse of the way I usually do mine), THEN I put the hook on the LEFT side, I say LEFT SIDE!!!!! Very SORRY for my mess up. Guess I got dislecsic on this one. Before I wrote this I sent you my cell# and Nextel so we can chat and whatever, man,"What an IDIOT I am", so sorry.
Edited 2/5/2006 6:23 pm ET by zorrosdens
Thanks ..... but no problem. Didn' do it today, anyway. had forgetton this is XL day.............********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
WHEw! I pictured spinning wheels there and felt bad for my 4paw......Ha.
I actually just finished installing the hook on the gun, but I had to do some surgery on the hook itself. I took my angle grinder, and cut away part of the corner of the hook so it would straddle the nail magazine of the gun. I works pretty well, since I have a hammer ring on both the front and back nd of my right side pouch, and the hook fits over either one very nicely. Thanks to your tip about the washer, the hook is completely immovable -- so it works well. Again, I appreciate all your help on this.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Just glad to hear you happy with it. Very welcome.
Edited 2/6/2006 10:45 pm ET by zorrosdens
I don't have a hanger/hook on my 15ga. I wish I did though. I think a belt clip, at a minimum, should be standard equipment on all nailers. I wonder if it's a liablilty thing?View Image
I still haven't checked out the other hangers you'all talk of , but I used to a Senco hook on My Hitachi and it worked great (it was the smaller ones since I mostly wanted to hang from the belt). They do make a "deeper" hook for hanging on 2x's and such, I just never wanted the unit to have that sticking out there so far. Just for what it's worth.....Luck All.
You went to a lot of effort to write out your thoughts on the Max, and I want you to know I appreciate it
He did a heck of a job with it too.
Tim
BTW The only belt hook I've found that will truely hold on a tool belt, without slipping off occasionally, like all the other "supplied" hooks on guns, is the Senco hooks or ones that are designed exactly like them. Even if a gun I bought came with some kind of hook, I would put the Senco on it, as I have every gun I own. They work and you would have to break the gun to break it, I believe. At times I'll have an 18ga. and a 15 or 16ga. hanging....I'm weird, I know.
I just got the Hitachi after my real old Porter-Cable (laugh if you want, but it was a good gun for almost 9 years, served me well and didn't owe me anything) and have liked it just fine. I haven't had much chance to use the air blower, but everyone says it's handy.
The others I considered were from the Tools of the Trade review at http://toolsofthetrade.net/articles/showarticle.asp?articleid=2209&qu=finish+nailer&ct=TOTT were the updated Porter Cable, and the DeWalt gun. I liked the DeWalt because it is extremely light and had a cool belt hook, but since I hadn't heard anything good here about them and they don't have much history I decided not to take a chance. The Bostich got okay reviews in the article, if you want to keep using the same nails you already have. I looked at the Porter cable which has had a few nice updates since my old one was made, but it didn't get a great review and the Hitachi had good reviews here and in the article.