Hey all, Normally I wouldn’t be posting a question because “I already know almost everything” according to me.
I bought this house in Marine, Illinois that was built in the 1850’s and the floor joists were bricked in to the foundation as seen in the pictures, I’ve cut out the floor and joists and am trying to figure out the best way to pour a repair foundation just inside the stacked stone that will also fill in the voids from the old joists and lock in the bricks surrounding the voids. Should I pour a footing, which I’ve trenched for, and then a short wall on that, or should I pour footing and short wall altogether? I was going to pour the footing next to the stone and up over the top of the stone ledge by four inches, but I’m not sure if the concrete would develop a crack at the point where it goes over the stone or not. I could put a treated rim joist all the way around and just set it on the stone ledge, then shim and grout shims in? I’m not going to be able to restore the house. It is in an area that would not find value in the restoration, if you know what I mean.
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Gregg
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I would save time, labor and money by placing the new joists in the existing pockets.Make fire cuts on the ends of the joists.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Thanks for reply, I am considering that option as well, I just wasn't sure about the integrity of the pockets and surrounding bricks if I slipped a 1-1/2" joist into a 2-1/4" pocket over time, plus the seepage of water through the brick could be a problem.
Looks like your joist bottoms would be less than 18" from the dirt. Here, we'd have to go with pressure treated.The brick pockets do look a bit sketchy... maybe you could pour a few piers in the trench, then run a girder that the joists would pass over, stopping short of the brick... is the brick stout enough to keep holding up the walls and roof?<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
We'll have a kid
Or maybe we'll rent one
He's got to be straight
We don't want a bent one
He'll drink his baby brew
From a big brass cup
Someday he may be president
If things loosen up
I don't know if the brick would continue to hold up with the old joists out, almost like a bunch of short columns now?
Thanks to all for help and ideas, I'll get some pictures of my solution for follow up posts
Gregg,It has worked since 1850. It will work again. You can drive some wedges to hold the joists plumb, then install some diagonal bridging as required to prevent twist.Sometimes we run a center girder or beam to support the joists to get the wanted deflection.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
I was just about to post that I live in a house that has the pockets, that was built in the 1880's.
I have worked on a lot of restorations/renovations over the years. As you know, a true masonry home is built much different from stick built brick veneer/siding homes. I feel a masonry home is better built than what is built today (and much more costly to build).Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
I thought the concrete fused to existing bricks and vibrated in to the voids would be better than trying to grout them full, what do you think?
I do wish the previous owners had taken better care of the house.
Gregg,I would point up the brick, then set the joists. We use slate or galv. sheet metal for shims. I get the sheet metal free from my tinsmith, mostly scaps. I would not try to grout the joists in. The floor system will move.A center beam or girder will allow you to get the full bearing on the brick.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
No - sorry - don't point the brick - that's mid-century soft brick (very, very soft) and will be destroyed by any sort of modern mortar.
Also your bearing (unless pressure-treated) should be onto/into flashing and not on bare masonry.
I would not leave any bare dirt - at minimum a 8-10mil poly reinf. vapor barrier.
Jeff
Edited 7/24/2009 11:14 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
I don't know what they were thinking when they set those joists without at least putting some tar on the ends. But the house is like a siren's song to me! I'll probably still be working on it when I pass in 40 years (if i'm lucky)
I can tell you there is no evidence of any rot in the ends of my joists, of course they had enough sense to build it 30" above grade!!
there was diagonal bracing down middle, but the ends were like sponges. All shims under joists had deteriorated to like powder wood.
What's a fire cut again?
Angled cut on the top of the joist end that goes into the pocket. Lets the joist fall out, if it were to burn thru, rather than bringing the wall down with it.http://www.tvwsolar.com
We'll have a kid
Or maybe we'll rent one
He's got to be straight
We don't want a bent one
He'll drink his baby brew
From a big brass cup
Someday he may be president
If things loosen up
Ah, yes now I remember.
Thanks.
So thats what a fire cut is! I thought it was a way to stick three inches in on both ends, as we all know is impossible. When it was originally built they set each joist and bricked around the ends and then up with the walls. I guess over time the mortar loosened and slipped out. I could put a center beam in as one post suggested.