Is it safe and legal to put 2 wires on 1 breaker. I’ve seen it done but not to sure if it’s correct. Thanks
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Depends.
Who Dares Wins.
Good clear concise answer -- also diaper?
Actually it depends on whether the breaker is listed for 2 wires. Get a microscope from Edmund Scientific and read the fine print.
Usually it is not. The best practice is to avoid this situation by planing ahead. Second best is to wirenut on a pigtail [third wire] and install the pigtail into the breaker. Hide the wire nut behind the other stuff.
~Peter
How much does it cost to rent a crane with a long jib boom to be erected just outside the security fence of Alderson death camp?
Wirenut ???No way.Split nut. (Otherwise known as a Kearney nut. Hey, see there, I DID learn something from Gunner !!)Plenty of rubber tape. Wrap that with nylon wire tie.No need to hide it...
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
Nothing wrong with wirenuts. Avoid the dirt cheap ones and pay attention to their ratings. A quality wire nut, Scothlock 2s, Rangers and Marrettes give me a nice warm feeling, used as rated and applied in a careful and workmanlike manner will safely and effectively carry anything the wire will.A copper or bronze split-bolt will also work but care must be taken insulating it after the joint is made up. Getting a bolt evenly covered with tape is a bit of an art form. It can be done but it takes time and if sloppily done with inferior tape the result will not live up to what could have been accomplished in a tenth the time using a wire nut.A bug, Kearney, split-bolt also takes up a lot more room and are a lot less aesthetically pleasing compared with a wirenut.
True that.But I think I'll stick with the bugs.Of course, I ain't an electrician, either.So when I do something I try to make it as secure and inslated as possible. I just do not trust those little electron and proton gremlins not try to undo whatever man does...LOL
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
I think Luka just likes to say the word "bug".
Also--one wire nut that I really find handy is the "scru-it". It's new, made in the U.S. Has a cool feature in that you can use a #2 phillips driver (in a cordless driver) to spin it on. They've go a website.
Before anyone rails against using a power driver to spin on wirenuts, there's a good reason to make sure the splice is solid. I was doing some commercial work in an office building the other day. Was moving some splices around in a j-box, being very careful about it. Even gave the wire nuts a twist to make sure that they were tight. On one of the circuits, a neutral splice was so loose, a wire moved around and interrupted power to one of the circuits. I'd warned the people in the area that I'd be shutting off the power (later), so I wasn't happy about shutting someone down w/o notice. She didn't get as upset as she could have. And keep in mind that unless you've qualified, as in having been trained to work things hot (even moving wires around), you shouldn't do it. Too esy to get bit or killed if something gets loose and hits you.
All the splices were made that way--shove in the wires, twist untill a little resistance was felt. Makes it easy to break the splice for trouble shooting or modification, that's for sure. Also makes for fast work making the splices.
But I'd rather see a splice where the conductors are twisted outside the wirenut at least one twist. Using a power driver is good (as long as you don't get carried away and put twists in the full conductor length), but the scru-it nuts mean I don't have to switch between a P2 bit and a wirenut driver in my 7.2V deWalt screwdriver.
Cliff
Have you tried the Gardner Bender Hex-lock wirenuts? Or the Ideal Twister? The tan ones are rated for 3 #10, 4#12(sol), 5#14 down to 3-6#22. A pretty good range. They have a 5/16 nut driver compatible head as well as two wings. Covers most requirements with only two sizes to carry/stock.
http://www.idealindustries.com/wt/TwistOnWireConnectors.nsf
I keep a rachet screwdriver with a nut driver head in my elect bag. I also keep a six to 8 inch piece of 1/2 in cpvc with a couple of v-nothces cut to tighten the green pass through ground wirenuts.
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RASCONC,
Yes, I've used the Ideal grays and tans, and like the wide range covered by just the two types.
Usually, though, I carry the good old-fashioned Ideal Wing Nuts in my bags, reds and yellows. They're a lot cheaper than the twisters. I use a 3M wire nut driver and a DeWalt 7/2V cordless screwdriver to apply them. If I want to spend more for the connector, I'm thinking of switching to the scru-it (which covers a very wide range) 'cuz I can leave the P2 bit in the driver all the time. Very good connections and very fast.
I like your idea of using the piece of notched CPVC to tighten up the pigtail nuts. My AHJ wants to see crimp sleeves in the EGCs, though, so I only use the pigtail wirenuts (black & white, for the current carrying conductors) in cases where space is very tight--like getting a GFI in an old box with multiple cables. Yea, sometime it's a box fill violation, but try to sell a homeowner on an expensive box replacement just to put in a GFI!
The 3M nuts (orange/blue, and red/yellow) with the long skirt are great in certain applications. And in rare instances I use the Buchannan sleeves and the C-24 crimp tool that gives a 4-point indent, and the snap-on insulating caps. Tedious, but a bomb-proof connection. I sometimes use the C-24 system for smoke alarms--a lot less likely to be disconnected than if there's a wire nut splice.
Sounds like a wine snob talking about some special vintage from a certain exclusive vinyard, eh? Well, every sparky has a preference. And I throw out the connectors that are included with most light fixtures. Pure junk.
Cliff
Obviously I offered my simple semi-pro advice to someone who has been there does that. Have not seen some of the products you mention, thanks will look for them. The pigtail thing was my own idea, guess Kleins do just as well but sometimes awkward.
My supply house is a family outfit who started out as an elect. contractor and became a great elec/plumb/tool (heavy duty tools.net) supplier. The pop of the outfit is a big Buchannan fan.
Cheers, Bob
Certain brand breakers are rated for 2 wires, others are not. Check your manufacturers rating.
Yea, what gunner said. IF the breaker is designed for two wires, yes, it's O.K.
If I recall right, Square-D QO breakers are designed for two wires. Most brands aren't.
The other option is to splice the two wires to one, and land the one on the breaker terminal. As long as you're not making too many splices in the panel, it's O.K. to do.
Code says something like the wireways and gutters in a panel cannot be filled more than 40 percent. I believe that the reason is to allow some air space so that heat buildup doesn't get so severe that the conductor insulation starts to break down.
In practice, most inspectors won't take issue with one or two splices inside a panel. More than that, like when you replace a panel and some of the existing cables are short, it's time to put a splice box in adjacent to the panel and make the splices in there. I'm not talking about a 4" square or 4 11/16" square box; I mean an 8 by 8 inch junction box (4 or 8 inches deep).
Good luck.
Cliff