I had another thread going about roofing cost and today I received the bid. I have to decide if it’s worth spending an extra $700 to upgrade from a 30yr. to a 40yr. shingle From all the posts that I’ve read there seems to be a lot of mixed feelings on this subject. Will I really get 10 more years out of the 40, if so, I feel the $700 would be worth it. Any thoughts? Thanks again for all the feedback. -Ed
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Michael Hindle explores the efficacy of deep energy retrofits and discusses essential considerations for effective climate mitigation.
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
EddW
Well you could buy old growth cedar shakes and get a hundred years or more.. (properly installed of course) There are old barns with hand split cedar shakes that were put up in the 1850's around here.. Age is estimated but the really neat part is there are no nails holding them on.. every shake was put up with a oak peg, hand whittled!
Your profile is blank, so I have no clue where you're from.
If you're in a climate with winter rains and some occasionally healthy windstorms, the upgrade to 40 year may be of marginal value...the elements I described will accelerate the loss of the sand on the shingles and, while the roof may still be performing well, it may begin to look a little tired.
But then, unless your budget is tight, what's $700? If a 40 year roof gives you 30 years, a 30 year will probably give you 20.
For laminated shingles, my favorite are the Malarkey high wind....very nice to install (they're flexible even on an icy day), have an excellent warrantee (50 years and up), and have extra seal-down strips. (But will probably turn your $700 difference to $1200 to $1500).
While Frenchy means well, shakes are not a good idea for a number of reasons....Old growth cedar shakes are quite expensive (and to reliably get Old Growth anymore is a crap shoot), offer poor fire resistance (even when treated), and can be a maintenance nightmare. There are still a few shake mills in my neck of the woods, and a few in Western Canada, and the quality control is sometimes lacking.
I'm about 25 miles west of Chicago. We get some pretty windy days but not all too often. Are the manufactures just playing games with numbers or are you really getting a much better shingle. Is it a given that the 40 year will even last longer at all? Just doesn't seem like there's that much difference in weight. There's only 20 pounds difference per square, is that enough to get you 5 or 10 more years?? The contractor that I got the bid from uses GAF and Certainteed. Thanks for your reply. -Ed
I put 40 year GAF on my roof. They lasted for 12 years before failing. They supplied me with new shingles because they were defective. 11 grand in labor to tear off and replace was not covered in their 40 year warrenty.
Roofing warrenties are worthless as far as I'm concerned.... read the fine print ... and roll the dice ..... because when they fail, and yes they will fail one day.... If it's within their warrenty period you won't get much if anything towards a new roof.
If I had it to do all over again I'd have put the cheapest 15 year shingle on... bet I could have squeezed 20 years outta them.
So I'm not the only one who thinks GAF has a bogus warranty. I had the Ultra shingles (50 yr) installed and had 2 leaks within the first 5 years. They would not send a field rep out to look at the job since "we don't do that anymore". They said I should remove the shingles that were leaking and return them for evaluation. If they determined that the shingle were defective they would cover the cost of the shingles - no labor. I asked what I should do with the part of my roof that was without shingles while they made their "determination". They suggested that I consult a roofing contractor about somehow making that area water tight.
So in other words I pay for a roof repair for a 5 year old 50 year warranty roof and they might send me like $ 50.00 to pay for the square of defective shingles. Nice warranty!!
I have GAF on the roof now and did't think I got the mileage out of them that I should have. I think it's a 25 year that's about 12-15 years old. I think I'll go with the Certainteed. I'm getting one other bid so I have something to compare the first one to, this guy says he likes Elk brand shingles. I guess $700 isn't that much in the scheme of things.
You need steel.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
Ditto for a friend of mines roof.
GAF 40 year shingles=13 years and reroof.
I would spend the extra $700 and use the Certainteed shingles. With all the labor involved the $700 is small change. You may or may not get 30 years out of either one, but I would put my money on more weight. The asphalt in shingles evaporates slowly over time that's why the rain channels on 3 tabs get larger as they age. And they start to curl. That's my 2 cents.
Notchman,
You are right, wood shakes don't offer much fire protection.. and any tornado worth it's salt will at least remove your shingles. But I can't remember the last time I heard of a house burn down here in the midwest because the shingles caught on fire . Christams trees, sure faulty wiring, of course, kids playing with matches yeh! But the roof catching on fire? Anyway what's insurance for anyway?
Old growth shakes are simple, look at how tight the growth rings are together.. If they aren't old growth, with nice tight growth rings, don't buy them!
Quality control? It really depends on the grade you buy.. Blue label and I;ve never seen the quality suspect. Beyond that and well you start to take chances, (plus you won't likely get old growth)
As for maintinance, Those old barns had carefully whittled pegs installed in hand drilled holes on the shakes put up over 150 years ago, the maintinace involved has been to let mother nature rain and snow on them and an occasional bird crap on them.. They weather nice and white and aren't nearly so hot in the summer as asphault shingles.
Now maybe sometime in the past 150 years somebody climbed up there and replaced some that the wind had taken away, but in the past 50 years nobodies been up there to my knowledge.
Nearby barns had asphault shingles nailed over the shakes and then replaced and torn off and replaced, the currant "fashion" is metal roofs which while it's holding up OK is only a little over ten years old..
$700???
How many square? 10 or 20?
At 20 square the increase would be like, $1 a bundle.
Gord
I guess I didnt read the other threads.
Depends on where you live again like normal.
In Arkansas in my area you are statistacally going to replace your roof in 15 years by either a hail storm or tornado. You question of 30 or 40 is null and void here. 20 and 25 reigns.
We strap on three consectutive roofs in 20 year overlapping each other but stip every time with the higher ones. I never could understand the value in 30 to 40 unless its resale or STYLE. We must keep up with the Jonses at any cost .
Tim
Oh my! Tim, the neighbors have thicker shingles than we do! Tut, tut, get right on replacing our shingles with copper, won't you?; )++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
Did I hit it on the head ?
I tell ya 30 to 40 doesnt figgure except for the Joneses thing. At that I would have to pay for my own new roof when it happened . We cant have that can we?
Tim
What is your wind and hail situation?
What's sold here has a higher wind rating on the 40 year shingles.
If you live in a likely hail area, most roofs won't last either 30 or 40 years and insurance will be replacing the roof. If that's the case, ask you home insurance carrier what they prefer. They may even have different rates for different materials.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
absolutely! As I remeber, you have close to forty squares. That's less than twenty cents per foot per year
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
We've used "Grand Manor's" on several projects. There serviceability and longevity are to be determined, but it appears they will live up to expectation. However, they are requested more for the "look" than serviceability.
This thread has gone off on several tangents.
$700 sounds cheap to me to upgrade to 40 yrs. I'm curious about the brand. The advantages of the 40's is less chance of wind or hail damage and a thicker appearance. They also might last longer - they're thicker - but they probably don't have any more aggregate on them than the 30's so the UV protection is the same.
GAF's have been mentioned. In my neck of the woods, they are total crap and the rep won't even show up for warranty claims. Here, Certainteed is the best product and has the best service. I've heard of problems with them in other parts of the country (factorys are spread around the country for each brand).
Grand Manor's are an excellent product, but a different beast entirely. Here, they cost $170/sq mat'ls only. Extra labor cost is neccesary because of the extra weight.
http://grantlogan.net/
Seeyou, you were almost right on with your guesstimate from my previous post. You said $9K and the bid came in at $8,750 for the 40 year Certainteed Landmark. That included 6 ft. ice shield, chimney flashing, 10 roof vents, kitchen hood vent and lead flashing for plumbing stacks, lumber replacement was $2.50/ft. extra. The bid didn't say how many squares but Piffin said about 40 (60x40 4/12 hip roof).
What's your opinion on power roof vents? I have an air handler and ducts in the attic for AC. Thanks for all replies. -Ed
I'm not a big fan of power vents in most cases. They don't operate as much when it's cooler to remove moisture, they break and you don't know it, or the bearings go bad in the middle of the night and you can't sleep for the racket. A well designed system of static vents or ridge vent and the proper soffit venting will work problem free for many years and not use electricity. That said, there are some cases where a power vent is necessary, but they are rare.Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, I get waylaid by jackassery?
http://grantlogan.net/
Here in Dallas and surrounding counties using a class 4 shingle is recommended by the Insurance companies. The savings of 25% to 35% off homeowners Insurance over the life of the roof more than offsets the costs of it. With the hail storms we get roofs are replaced on average every 5yrs or less. Since using the class 4 type I have watched others replace theres 2 or 3 times since my install and my roof looks like new. Have had hail the size of baseballs not even make a dent in the roofing material and totally messed up both of my trucks though. LOL:)))
Just my .02 worth.
MK
Of what is your roof made. Metal? Brand?
Mine is metal by Decra. I've had some quarter ($0.25) sizes hail with no dents. It wasn't cheap but I believe it is the last roof this house will need.
No it's a reinforced asphalt shingle, I'll have to look it up, been awhile since I used any but beleive was a GAF product.
Edited to add: The manufactor was Malarkey not GAF. I used the legacy, impact resist, class 4 shingle.
Class 4 shingles, they make 30 yr and 50 yr. Snake Farm (sic), gives 27% discount in Dallas county, 33% in Tarrant county(Ft.Worth) for installing these types. Most roofers don't like to install because they can't come back next year after the storms and redo the roof again year after year. LOL:))))
MK
"El planeamiento pobre en su parte no constituye una emergencia en mi parte"
Edited 4/21/2006 4:16 pm by MiKro
I hadnt heard of an insurance deduction. That might even it out . With out it , you and I would be the losers.
However by asking I did get a reduction for hardibacker siding being the same as brick. 90 percet masonary.
Tim
Edited 4/21/2006 10:32 am by Mooney
It's worth asking, Since here in Dallas and surrounding areas we get a lot of hail. Different counties get differing %s
MK"El planeamiento pobre en su parte no constituye una emergencia en mi parte"
The kid across the street is a roofer. He wants $6,300.00 for 25 SQ of 30 year and $7,500.00 for 25 SQ of 50 year. Both include a tear-off.
If I were 25 years younger, I'd do it myself.
Maybe I'll just have him do a three-tab roof- over and call it good.