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I have a condominium in Barbados. My kitchen is quite narrow and is a
galley type. The cabinets need to be replaced, however the North American
depth of 24 ” is too deep for the kitchen. Do you think the 32 mm system
would be a good alternative and if so where do I get information them.
I look forward to your reply.
Sincerely,
Bert Wills
Replies
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Have your cabinets custom built...get any size you want.
*Here's a website that might help answer your questions, http://www.true32.com. Another one is http://www.baywooddesign.
*I am willing to measure up your condo for any type of cabinets that you would want. I think it will take me about a week and of course my wife will need to come with hold up the other end of the tape measure. Airline tickets and hotel expenses is all I ask.
*32 mm doesn't have anything to do with the depth of the cabinets; it's the distance between each linebored hole in the cabinet side (the closest they could get two drill chucks). All hardware for these types of cabinets is designed around that 32 mm spacing, and so the cabinets are too (in metric).....height wise, anything goes as long as it's a multiple of 32 mm (in the classical system, though the rules can be broken). Width isn't an issue. Depth is usually determined based on the length of drawer slides....an automated cabinetmaker is going to have his machines set up to drill two sets of line holes so the front and rear drawer slide screws install into the line bored holes....for a typical base cabinet, most shops would go automatically to a 22" (actually, the metric equivalent of 5500 mm, 21 5/8" or so)drawer slide, then you have to account for a back and a door. A shallower cabinet would cause most 32 mm shops to step down through shorter drawer slides until you found the closest match to your desired cabinet depth.All of this is to say, there is a lot of customisation available within the 32 mm system, but there are also limitations based on the 32 mm spacing, and the requirements of the hardware. If you want something way out of the ordinary, it may cost more to get a cabinetmaker to go outside of his 'system' (but it can definitely be done, it's done all the time). I'm just saying 32 mm isn't an autoimatic fix to the problem. The upside of frameless cabinetry though, is 25% more space available inside your cabinets compared to face frame, and you get to use the hardware (best in the world) to it's full potential.
*i The upside of frameless cabinetry though, is 25% more space available inside your cabinets compared to face frame,Adrian, would you mind doing the math for me, showing how you get 25% more space in a frameless cabinet vs face frame? Using for example W243012.
*Well, I'm not gonna do the math...too many variables based on the design of the cabinet. For instance, my face frame cabinets have 1 1/2" framing pieces, and I locate the gable flush with the inside edges; I can still use the euro hardware. Another local shop uses frame pieces that are 3" + (so they can use smaller (cheaper) doors and fronts), and a substantial overhang on the gables....you're going to get different numbers on any two cabinets. The 25% is a number I have seen used by industry analysts many times....it's obviously a generalisation, and now I'm looking for the references, I can't find them (but I will). It jibes with my experience.Anyway, the difference is more dramatic if you look at a base cabinet than a wall cabinet, especially a drawer bank. I don't see that many plain jane wall cabinets anymore, maybe a couple in a kitchen; the hard work is in the bases and tall cabinets. In frameless, I typically use three and four drawer banks; some folks have five drawer banks. In face frame, if you need horizontal frame pieces, they take a lot of interior space away; that means substantially smaller drawers or fewer of them. Same goes for lazy susan cabinets, and tall cabinets with pullouts, refrigerator built ins....everything from drawer sizes to pullouts to the size of garbage cans you can fit in there gets downsized. I saw this pretty clearly in a kitchen I just priced; it was originally designed frameless, then the client wanted to change to inset face frame; one leg of an l-shaped kitchen grew by 5", and every component on that wall had to shrink to fit everything in. Same problem on the other leg, but it was between walls, so cabinet interiors had to shrink to accomodate the face frames. And as I said, I don't use as big a framing piece as a lot of shops do. A wall cabinet is much less of a problem.Anyway, if I can find some of those refernces, I'll post 'em. I still build both types, so I'm not trying to flog one over the other, but I do believe you get a lot more space with framless, and all the hardware gets used to better advantage.
*Okay Ralph, here's some very rough math. 4-drawer bank, based on my standard cabinet of 30 1/4" high, 23 1/4" depth (22 5/8 internal), 5/8" case parts. I'm going to figure all face frame parts at 1 1/2.First off: the face frame itself...lose 3/4" off the cabinet depth, works out to around 4%.Frameless: 30 1/4 - (2 x 5/8...top and bottom)= 29 inches available, divided between four drawers. Face frame: 30 1/4 -(5 x 1.5...horizontal dividers)=22 3/4. That's at least another 22%, not counting reducing the height of the drawer sides for clearance around the frame pieces.Then factor in say a 3/4" overhang of the frame into the cabinet interior....cost in terms of space is going to be dependent on the cabinet width, but you're going to lose 1 1/2" off every drawer width. Say in a four drawer bank, call it 5" drawer boxes....1.5 x 5 x 20= 150 cubic inches, times four drawers....600 cubic inches of storage less than an equivalent frameless cabinet.
*Adrian, Your math example holds a good deal of salesmanship when introducing frameless construction to a customer unfamiliar with it. I had two vanities to build for two different customers. Both vanities were 4' in length with a bank of 4 drawers down one side with a false front above 2 doors on the other. One had to have a face frame to match up with other cabinetry, the other was frameless. The face frame customer wanted to see how production was coming and couldn't believe the difference in drawer widths of both style cabinets.Had another customer who said to me that frameless cabinets looked like what you'd find in hospitals. In answer to that I'm posting a picture of my latest frameless cabinet job.
*Yup; a good cabinetmaker can make frameless look however he wants.
*OK, thanks Adrian.I had factored in the difference due to the frame eating into shelf and/or interior total box volume but did not consider what would happen with multiple drawers. And I KNEW that all along - the drawers would necessarily be smaller.Let that be a lesson to all the rest of you when you work up your estimates and presentations. Take into account ALL the parameters that are involved in the job and not just the superficial "round number" figures.
*Bert to answer your question, You could have frameless cabinets built to meet your needs. They could be built less than the standard 24" debth BUTTT there or other things to take into consideration. Such as standard sizes for stoves, dishwashers, counter tops ect. depending on what you want . You'll compromise storage space, working counter top space a lot of variables. But any debth of cabinet can be made by a custom cabinet maker but there will be a lot of creative compromises and design "challenges". Like Adrian said 32mm is not the debth of a cabinet . 32 mm cabinets have standards also in width of cabinets which is why in a true 32mm system you'll see some filler pieces screwed to the cabinets to fill gaps. If you have your cab built youll gain space. where you would have a 2" filler piece, a cab. could be build to fit the space. so there are some advantages as well as draw backs
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I have a condominium in Barbados. My kitchen is quite narrow and is a
galley type. The cabinets need to be replaced, however the North American
depth of 24 " is too deep for the kitchen. Do you think the 32 mm system
would be a good alternative and if so where do I get information them.
I look forward to your reply.
Sincerely,
Bert Wills