A friend of mine had this deck built two years ago. He wants to at least make it reliably safe, but is not sure what he should do.
A few things I noted:
1. The header is made up of several pieces that don’t break over a support
2. There is nothing to keep the header from toppling over. The contractor nailed these triangles to “solve” that
3. The header tight to the house is lag bolted to the rim joist, which is a manufactured I-joist, not a solid 2×10 (don’t think that is right either, though that was the builder, not the deck guy). The deck guy wasn’t too happy with that, so he put a 2×4 under it, with “studs” supporting it, but the studs just sit on the ground, and are nailed to the foundation wall with .22cal shot concrete nails.
I’m sure there is plenty more wrong. What do you suggest he do?
Edited 9/27/2002 5:10:30 PM ET by Marine Engineer
Replies
See, if you throw a coat of paint on it, stand back 40 feet and squint, this total piece of unsafe, code violating, underbuilt, should have been red tagged and was probably never inspected or permitted in the first place, piece of cow flop looks pretty good.
Get a sawzall, or chainsaw and cut this piece of crap down before it collapses and kills some innocent bystander. And hire a legitimate contractor who will build to code and have it inspected....it will cost more, but well worth it.
Actually its not all that bad. Structurally it needs some improvement but certainly not total replacement. I would jack it up and replace the doubled up 2x's with 4xs, add another 4x girder midpoint and a blocked rim joist. That should take the strain off the house wall and simply make it a tie off point. I would also truss the 4x posts and add in huricane ties.
I've got a lot of respect for someone who will go against the crowd. A real under dog! I'm going to agree that yes, it could be saved, structurally speaking.
But there is more to it than that. This is a prominent feature of this home. It sticks right out like parking a rusty wreck wright in front of the house on Sunday for all the neighbors to see. It would be agravating me every single time I looked at it. I couldn't enjoy my own home for looking at this pile of crap. I would get so worked up over it that I would have to beat the wife and kick the dog. My frustration would build so bad that I probably wouldn't even pay my taxes until the inspector condemned it and forced the original builder to come back at which time I would explode with all this contained resentment and then I'd have to use superglue to hold him to his word to give me fair value. All the water in the pool couldn't cool me off until I had a deck that looked better than a barn loft and was strong enough to hold more than three bales of hay.
Time you figure the cost of the repairs and the psychology, it is cheaper to replace it right now.2500 and counting...
It's possible to have quality AND quantity!
Excellence is its own reward!
The deck was built before the final CO was issued for the house, and the inspector signed off on it. No, really, he signed off on it. Didn't mention a thing about the deck. I came home from sea, saw the deck, and said, "Frank, that doesn't look so good."
OK Piffin, I certainly can't argue your point. It's tough to see what is really going on in the pictures. If I could reach out and touch it things would probably be much different.
I just finished a big deck repair job that my recommendation was to tear it all off and do it right. The customer wouldn't budge because a Termite Inspector said that repairs would cost less. After doing all of the repairs and bringing it up code the cost wasn't all that much less. The customer was there everyday and watched me put a minimum of 10 hours a day of blood, sweat and tears into the work. It took over 3 weeks including weekends.
When I gave them the final bill the only complaint was that they wish the would have listened to me and promised not to make the same mistake twice. I'm now tearing off and replacing the deck at one of their other homes. No bid and no questions asked.
Ols story, if I had a dollar for every time I heard, "We just wish we had listened to you..." I'd be able to take the wife out to dinner tonight..
Excellence is its own reward!
You like those 99 cent jumbo jacks, do you ?
Just one fills you up ?
: )Cut me some slack here
Quittin' Time
considering transportation cost to get off island where the restaurants are. even Mc Ds is a high cost dinner.
Excellence is its own reward!
The way I see it, if the structure looks that f-ed up, how good could the cosmetic part look? I know it seems nice from a distance, but so do a lot of ugly things. Stop the bleeding.
Another point is that, if they ever want to sell the house, this deck is a detriment. Any buyer or inspector with one good eye and half a brain will look at it and be asking, "If the exposed stuff is this bad, what kind of mistakes did they cover up?" They'd be forced to assume that the whole house is substandard and walk away or offer considerably less than asking price. So the deck is a liability in both safety and in value..
Excellence is its own reward!
Talked with my friend this morning, showed him all of your comments (except about Piffin's restaurant deficit). We talked about different tactics to rebuild the structural support (doesn't want to hit the wife and kick the dog), and would like to run this proposal past you. Basically replace the existing header and posts with something like this, and install another mirror set up close to the house. The existing posts/header sit on concrete piers about 4 feet deep (should be below the frost line here on Long Island).
The deck platform is OK, I think. I don't like the rail, but that's a different problem. Would a post and header arrangement like this sketch be adequate?
Sounds like a job for Andy Clifford?
You are on the right track with that idea. You should also check the joints between rim joist and main joists. Corner joint in photo is already coming apart. These joints should have toenails and hardware. End nailing will come apart. screws might be OK.
I would take what you've drawn and make the beam lumber be 2x12 and notch the 6x6s to let them sit on solid post lumber. Then the 2z12's are 2" or so apart. Join them together by useing 1-1/5"x 2"x 10" deadwood. That way the two are strenthening each other, less likely to twist and flex, and water doesn't get trapped between. At the ends you could even give it a pergola cornice style end to it..
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 9/29/2002 4:07:31 PM ET by piffin
This is my method:
Hey M.E.--
Basically agree with Keith C; if built by a "pro", then your friend might seriously want to consider a small claims action...
Regards,
Rework
You know, I read the thread and thought "Aw, there's always a solution. Can't be that jacked up". Then I looked at the pics. Gotta agree. There's a lot of things going on here that are just way too much liability to try to fix without ripping it off and doing it right. If you're lucky, you can keep most of the sawdust out of the pool.
First thing to do is not stand under it. Or on top of it, or any where close by.
Had an interview in Chatt, TN. While the company was paying the trip I thought I'd take a look at a couple houses too. The realestate lady took me to a house her family actually owned or her cousin or some relation owed. I took one look at the deck and all the undersized lumber and told her it would have to come down and be rebuilt. As I finished the statement I turned to see a hot tub sitting on it next to the wall. Got pale, prayed it didn't have water in it and walked off it very carefully. It too had support members that ended in space rather than over a beam, 2x4, 2x6's and 2x8's not a 2x10 or greater in sight.
However, I bet it just hangs there getting more crooked and saggy until somebody finally decides to replace it. How it works....