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Got called out by a customer today to look at a job we furnished I-joists on.
More details in 1st post.
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The job has 16" deep, I-joists at 16" O.C. Floor sheathing is 3/4" T&G OSB is glued and screwed. The house was framed about last October. It's been under roof all winter, and they are getting ready to put flooring down. In a couple of rooms, they've put durock down and begun tile installation.
The problem is, when they walk across the floor, there is an intermitent squeaking or popping sound. It's not like a wood-to-wood squeak, and isn't particularly loud. Where there's durock, there's no noise.
The puzzling thing is that if you walk across a spot that makes a noise, then walk back across it, it doesn't make a sound the 2nd time.
The GC was concerned that the I-joists might be delaminating and causing the noise. But I don't see any evidence of that. They are just a touch weathered but are otherwise in good shape. The subfloor also appears to be in good shape - No loose chips or anything like that.
There is one thing that I was thinking might be contributing. Underneath the floor, they have heating tubes in the whole house. The tubes have "Wirsbo he PEX" printed on them, and are 1/2" diameter.
The tubes are sitting on metal "braces" which I've seen used in the past to support HVAC chases in floor systems. the braces are attached to the underside of the top flange of the I-joists with screws. Then the plastic tubes are wrapped with tie wire to hold them down to the "braces".
I have no experience with underfloor heating, and so have no idea if this is a "normal" installation or not. But I was wondering if the tubes might be expanding and contracting and causing the noise. The GC and homeowner both said the noise is the loudest first thing in the morning.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
*Tie wires are slipping on the brace, making the sqeak. Replace them with nylon zip ties.
*Hiya Boss Hog,It doesn't sound like this is your problem, but I'll throw it out there anyway.How about the nails in the sole plate of an interior partition squeaking in the sub-floor?I know that sometimes if there isn't a joist directly under the wall partition, the sub-floor can ride up and down the nail causing it to squeak. I just went back and fixed this problem in a house I built in september. When you walked across the floor, the sub-floor would flex and it would squeak. But if you walked across a second time, it wouldn't make a sound. I just went into the basement and screwed the sub-floor up into the partition and then installed some blocking between the joists.I dunno if this could be your problem or not but I thought i'd run it by ya.Good Luck-Sawdaddy
*Sawdaddy - Thanks for the input, but I don't think that's the problem. It appears to be happening all over the house - Even in the middle of fairly large rooms. And it's more of a "pop" than a squeak - I didn't really think of that when I typed in the title for the thread.
*Glued and screwed.....If the glue was unevenly applied or perhaps still resiliant then the screws could be a tad loose here and there and when the glue compresses or the flooring gives at places where the glue is missing then, when walked upon, the flooring rides on the screw shank and makes the popping sound. The floor won't pop again until after it rebounds and the wood fibers grab the shank again. Maybe.
*Boss Hog: Have not dealt w/heating tubes mentioned, and guessing its not the real cause, but have dealt w/ that pesty squeak. We use ply. vs OSB as decking, generally sinking some 3" screws into joists along abutting deck edges have quieted down any squeaks. Have found some ply got weathered too much, some minor delam, but sometimes thats all was needed for squeak.Worst one I had to rip up 1/2 the decking to fix in room. Found poor bead of adhesive along some joists--maybe dried out to soon before laying down sheet--Oct. here could chill it down faster. Scraped clean, put fresh bead down, added blocking as precaution while floor open and squeak stopped.Your timing could also be influenced by wood starting to dry out. Early AM always seems to be worst due to no activity walking in rooms overnight. I make it a habit just prior to carpet pad laying to walk the rooms early AM, Screw as needed, haven't had call backs yet. Tiled floor areas never seem to be problem due to added substrate.
*I was just looking at a friend's radiant heat layout and he pointed out the steel clips he got to attach the tubing were just a hair over 3/4". With the sleepers, 1x3's just shy of 3/4", he had a problem. He found that 1/2" copper pipe supports work fine.
*I've seen this problem with ducts running through (allowable) holes in the webs where enough clearance wasn't left, but that would not appear to be the case here, unless there is central air conditioning ductwork.Jeff
*Jeff - There *IS* in fact central air ductwork. But I'm certain that none of it was run i throughthe I-joists. All the plumbing and ductwork was under the I-joists, which surprised me.
*The problem shows up the worst in the morning. It could be the heating system going off at that time. Try leaving it off over night, and see if you still have the morning effect. If not, you've isolated the problem to the attachment of the pex heating stuff to the structure.-- J.S.
*I have experienced this with joists cantilevered over a beam or bearing wall. If they don't all line up perfectly, a joist can float loose. You walk across the joist on one side of the beam depressing it and lift the other side. When you walk back over the other side you get a one time pop. However, this was with lumber and not engineered joists. I would not expect engineered joists to have uneven shrinking from one to another. Then again?
*I had a similar problem with the engineered floor.Cut hole in plywood deck on top of the pop and low and behold there was a 8d CC in the side of the joist hanger that was the problem. YOU have to make sure the framers use the right nails on the joist hangers. They are a larger diameter and fit the hole better. Also make sure they put a squirt of adhevise before they set the joist in, it cushions the joint. The framers will want to not do this but it generally is specs by the manufacturer. [email protected]
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Got called out by a customer today to look at a job we furnished I-joists on.
More details in 1st post.