I’m in Lowe’s to pick up a couple of breakers. As usual I wander the store to see what’s new after I get what I’m after. Passing the joist hangers I see a flier on one of those ‘take-one’ pads.
On careful examination I see it is put out by either the ICC, International Code Council, or “treatedwood.com” and has a Fastener information Sheet title under the Preserve Plus logo. It details a ‘List of hardware manufacturers that recommend hardware for use with’ … ‘ACQ treated wood’. A impressive chart of 36 manufacturers listing their recommended offerings. Fine enough. Most of these products recommended are heavily coated, hot dip or proprietary treatments of zinc, or stainless steel. Pretty much what everyone had assumed.
The kicker for me was to notice a statement. This was at the top:
“As a minimum requirement for use with treated wood hot dip galvanized coated fasteners should conform to ASTM Standard A153. The same wording again with connectors “conforming to ASTM Standard A653 (Class G-185)”
Then the interesting line: “For optimum performance and longevity in treated wood, fasteners and connectors fabricated from stainless steel should be considered.”
There is additional information “Electroplate galvanized fasteners are not normally recognized as being corrosion resistant for exterior applications.” Also and in bold print: “Aluminum should not be used in direct contact with CCA or ACQ treated lumber.”
The use of “minimum requirement” and “optimum performance and longevity” was quite, at least for me, profound.
At the bottom of the sheet there is a listing from the “2003 International Residential Code – Fastener Statement – Section R319.3”
“Fasteners for pressure-preservative treated wood shall be of hot-dipped galvanized steel, stainless steel, silicon bronze or copper. Exception: one-half inch (12.7mm) diameter or greater bolts.”
The way I read all this is that they will let you get away with installing hot-dip galvanized but stainless steel is better. Seems to be written with a slant toward getting away from galvanized all together when ACQ is used.
Replies
We have discussed this stuff in length.
The big question though is DOES THE STORE CARRY THE RECOMMENDED FASTENERS AND HARDWARE? They are still somewhat hard to find around here. They stock a basic assortment of joist hangers, and very few other framing anchors. In order to get Gal. nail gun nails with the proper ASTM rating, I have to go to the other side of the city and the ones I get are the .121 diameter, which I think are pretty flimsy for deck framing. Yea, I know there are some online sources, but I have yet to find any where I can get a box of nails for under $100 once you pay the shipping. Our local Lowes stocks has no full round head HD Gal framing nails, and Home Cheapo has some 8 penny ones - whatever they are good for I don't know - fence building I guess.... Talking to sales people gets me blank stares or replies like "why don't you build your decks with screws?".
It's been 5 full months now since they stopped making CCA - why can't these stores get their $hi+ together????
My point was that heavily galvanized steel appears to be a transitional step only and it will soon be stainless, silicon bronze or copper only. Fasteners with proprietary coatings may survive if they prove resistant enough but most of these coatings seem only resistant to abrasion. Once the coating is broken all all bets are off.
Agreed. The way I see the whole situation, at first they said we needed to use stainless, then turned around and said that HD Gal is sufficient... sounds like they are selling us a bill of goods. But my main rebuttal point though was, what good are this spec and that if you can't buy what is required. You said you read the spec sheet, but did that store sell what was called for on the spec sheet!!! BTW - I looked at that Swan web site, and call me cheap, but I just can't see myself buying a box of framing nails for $350, even if they are SS!!! Matt
I agree that, from what I have seen at the big boxes, there are not a lot of stainless hangers, nails or suitable screws. From what I hear they are 'coming'. Christmas and the age of Aquarius are also coming. Theory being that with everyone needing them they will be stocked and the quantity needed will drop the price.
That is, in a nutshell, free market capitalism in motion. Of course screwing people for whatever you can is also capitalism so how long it will take to get steady and cheap supply, considering that lacking this they can charge whatever they want, will be interesting to watch.
Many years ago I heard much the same story, stainless hangers and nails will be easy to find and cheap, when it became apparent that, after Andrew, a lot of homes within a mile or so of the ocean had reinforcements and hangers that had long since rusted away. Potentially millions of homes would need stainless replacements. The market would make them available.
As far as I can tell this never happened. Contractors, those conscientious enough to see and sell the advantages of stainless in a salt water environment exposed to hurricanes were such things are critical, had to special order what they needed at a very dear price.
Hopefully the much greater and nationwide nature of the need will overcome any entrepreneurial inertia and get carpenters what you need at a reasonable price.
Is it possible that ACQ will go the way of aluminum electrical wire, and we'll get CCA back again?
-- J.S.
Re: "Is it possible that ACQ will go the way of aluminum electrical wire, and we'll get CCA back again?"
I'm not a carpenter, other than as a homeowner, hobbyist and what little wood butchery is required as an electrician, but I suspect not. Arsenic is toxic. No big secret this as it has been known for well over a hundred years. We also know that arsenic toxicity is both subtle, in small doses, and cumulative in developing bodies, children.
Carpenters, even those who ignore basic safety in most cases, are not turning green and dropping dead. I once talked to a carpenter that once complained about a bleeding nose and general weakness, 'not feeling right', after a series of long sessions working with CCA in very a sloppy manner. He was breathing in the sawdust, smoking on the job and even eating off damp wood. He was put on chellation therapy, a high potency mineral supplement taken several times a day to bind to aid and removal of the arsenic from his body. He recovered quickly but a child absorbing a similar amount could have suffered greater damage.
Once people shift to stainless and this increased market causes stainless to become easier and cheaper to buy I think things will settle down. Just another cost of doing business. Possibly a sales point. Stainless hangers have long been pushed as the best material for coastal building.
In theory these hangers should last longer than the building itself. You could include them in your will. Interesting enough I have heard similar about colonial times when metal hardware was bequeathed to an relative and buildings being abandoned were commonly burned down to speed recovery of nails and hardware.
The question I have is why the treated lumber industry went with ACQ as opposed to other treatments which seem as effective and not nearly as corrosive. Borate seems a better choice in some ways but this too will shake out in time.
The trouble with borate is that it's water soluable, and washes away too easily. My concern about ACQ is that it may turn out to be a bigger mistake than aluminum wire was -- at least in combination with fasteners other than stainless.
-- J.S.