I need some help friends, I have a customer that would like to have a ceiling fan installed in three bedrooms that have no existing ceiling fixture. There is a switch by each door to control a receptacle for a lamp which is at one end of the run, at the other is the plug that has the feed coming in to it. I do have good overall experience in electrical wiring and I think i have an idea on how to do this, but would really like some advice from some seasoned electricians. Is it possible to reconfigure this wiring to feed up to the ceiling to add a fixture. By the way I do have attic access (trusses). Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance.
Replies
If there is a hot at the switch then half your battle is done. The next question is, is there radiant heat in the ceiling? If not then find center, pop in a reinforced box. Run a switch loop to the fan box. use a little common sense and locate the feeder hole over the switch that's already there and fish it down the wall and wire it up. Personaly I would run 3 conductor to the fan so you could seperate the fan and the light. Another thing I cannot stress enough is the need to securely mount the fan box to something solid. It will save on the wobbles and keep the fan from joining your customer in bed in the middle of the night.
Definitely a good idea to run a 3 wire, no radiant heat so I got that goin for me.
There has to be a hot to switch box coming from recep box, so this should be a no brainer!
And yes I definitely will put in a good support for fan!
Thanks Gunner!
"There has to be a hot to switch box coming from recep box, so this should be a no brainer!"
No, you need to use at least 5% brains on this. You described it a little differently in your first message.
While there are some variation there are two basic ways that this can be wired.
Power feed goes to the switch. The neutral and switched hot then go to the outlet. In that case you need rewire at the switch box so that you have a not going to the outlet.
The other case you have the power feed to the outlet and then have a cable with a hot going to the switch and a switched leg comming back, but no neutral.
In that case you need to rewire at the outlet so that you have a hot and neutral feeding the switch box.
Bill,
What I have is the first plug in the room has the incoming feed to it and then feeds to the rest. The plug controlled by the switch is at the end of the run, so would'nt that mean that there is a hot going to the switch?
Then I would just remove the neutral from being hot and connect it with the other neutrals and continue it up to the fixture.
I hope I explained this better than I did at the begining. Let me know if I got the right idea, probably simple staring me in the face and I dont see it.
Thanks again,
Zip
I think that you have it right. However, those are outlets or recptacles.
Plugs are the things with the prongs that plug into the outlet.
Yes Bill you're right "receptacle".I used "plug" as a slang, I'll watch my terminoligy next time ;-)
Thanks for your help I do appreciate it!
Zip
Edited 4/26/2002 7:47:25 PM ET by Zippy
From what I read I think your question is pretty well covered. The one consideration I have, I didn't see anything covering this but I could have missed it, is the minimum distance of the fan blades from the floor. Most codes require a 7' minimum. Pretty hard to meet if you have 7" ceilings and even with 8' it can change the type or mounting of the fan you use.
The only other thing I would add is to select your fan from the middle of the price market. Buy the top of the line and your paying for a name or features you probably don't need. Buy the cheapest and you get poor performance, lots of noise and the probability that you will be hanging another one soon. So it is with most things.
Where's AJ when ya need him? What are the electrical permit requirements?
What are the box codes? I need a fan rated box. I'll fill in for AJ.......what is this...fine electrical fires??? Jeff "That's like hypnotizing chickens........."
Sure...I will chime in with ..."This oughta be done by a licensed electrician." Of course no one will listen. There is a reason for this. Have come behind numerous handyman types and seen wire nuts sticking up proudly from the insulation OR the bare copper wire used as a hot OR no fan box.... etc etc. It's a wonder that we dont have more fires.
'Practicing to be a curmudgeon"
I look down my nose at people who dare to look down their nose at people.
Ya I've seen that. Nothing like flying splices to signify quality workmanship. One of my favorites on the hit parade of improvisational wiring is when someone, especially scary when then the person doing it claims to be an electrician, wires a fan to have a switch controlling the light kit and the fan motor controlled by the pull chain.
While this is one of my favorite configurations it requires either 2 runs of 2-wire romex or 3 wire romex run between the fan box and the switch but it can also be made to work with one 2 wire run. The key to this boldly innovative and frightening technique is to use the ground as the neutral and not have a ground at the fan at all. While I admire the inventiveness of this scheme and must say that I have never heard of a house fire or anyone getting a serious shock because of this I can only shake my head and wonder.
It has been said that God looks after fools and sailors. Should jack leg electricians be added to this list and is this a proof for the existence of higher powers.
4, have you been sneaking around my house<G>.
In my case it was much worse. I was painting my great room (combined dinning living room) and had the cover plate off a ganged box. The lights over the dinning table and in the kitchen started flickering. Neither of whcih was controlled by that switched in that box.
Started checking and tracing and found that in the feed to the kitchen lights they had drive a nail through the romex and shorted the neutral and ground to the hot. So they cut the ground and neutral off the 14-3 that feed a hot and switched hot to the kitchen light and then went on to feed the dinning area light and a couple of other including a hall light with a 3 way switch, one of which happened to be in the ganged box. At the kitchen light they cut off the ground and netural from the feed and tied the neutral from the ground that continued on to the other lights on the circuit.
At the ganged box there where switched for that circuit, plus and other circuit. The grounds for each circuit where just pushed into the box and happened to touch. It is a surprised that it worked for 15 years without any problems.
How bout those exciting splices inside the wall?? Took three hours to find one once. Yes... it was a jackleg electrician that did it.
I look down my nose at people who dare to look down their nose at people.
Yes, the flying splices or box hidden in the wall or burried under 3 feet of blown in insulation, swimming anyone, add that special spice to life. Explaining the holes you had to knock just to find them or the bill for the time involved makes the job itself look simple. Of course this would be easier if I could just remember to bring my X-ray glasses and magic wand to work with me.
Check FHB #142 - there were several articles and sidebars on fan installation. I installed one in my kitchen about two years ago and had it done in about 3 hours - made the DW very happy!
Steve
This is an easy DIY project.
1. Locate center of room and/or ideal location for fan. Drill a small hole and stick a coat hanger up there. Go into attic and determine truss bay for fan location. Drill 4 holes or punch 4 holes with dry wall saw. These will be your 4 corners. Go downstairs and cut out a rectangle for fan. Cut drywall on the center of the truss bottom's.
2. While in attic locate the truss bay for the switch. You should see some Romex going down to it. Shut off power, and remove switch plate and switch. Punch out hole in box and fish a tape from box up to the attic. Connect some 12-3 to the end and pull it back through the box and cut in 8" long. Install switch.
3. Buy a fan kit from a supplier that has a heavy duty cross bar and install 4" oct box. Run 12-3 into it and snip it about 8" long. Drywall time. Cut, nail, mud, sand mud, sand, and paint drywall to match. Install fan. Test fan. Enjoy fan.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927
Thanks for all the replys guys, One more question:
What would be a fair price to charge for reconfiguring switch wiring, bracing for box in ceiling and hanging fan?
I was thinking $85.00 per room (too high/low?) let me know.
Thanks again,
Zip
Zippy,
I'm a customer, not a contractor, but three years ago we had an electrician do this exact thing to a bedroom. $150 in the LA suburbs
Boris-
Maybe I'm missing something here?? Drywall time? If you're careful with the cuts when moutning the box, there should be no drywall repair. Same goes for the switch. Did I miss the Tongue in Cheek somewhere??
I've done three of these retros to my home (one in each bedroom) and not once have I repaired drywall.
Good tips, Boris.
I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and I'll never forget the time I was
installing a ceiling fan in a rental property with the tenant watching my every move. This was a new cut-in into a pristine ceiling.
To find the center of the rectangular room, I went to the trouble of
tacking thread from corner to corner. The tenant watched in puzzlement, then said (with my X marks the spot right there in front of him) "That just doesn't look like the center to me."
No good answer to that.
Greg.
My first thought would be to add 2 switches - One for the fan and one for the light. I hate yanking on chains all the time.
And as others have said, make sure you put in a solid box.
I don't know if $85 a room is enough. Never know what you'll run into, or how much trouble you'll hav getting those wires up into the attic.
Redneck Extraordinaire