I have a cape cod (built around 1950). Basement is 7′ high and is built with 2×8 (actually they measure 2×9 EXACTLY) so go figure.
Anyway, the stairwell is next to the main support beam. Obviously where the stairwell was “cut out”, there are double joists along the 3 remaining sides (the last “long” side is against the central support beam).
The span from the “non support beam” side of the stairwell to the house edge is approximately 8′. The joists that run this span are face nailed to a double “header” (long side) which in turn is also face nailed to another double header (both at the “top” and “bottom” of stairs). And they are “secured” (If you can call it that) with real old steel (?) metal joist hangers. HOWEVER, the joist hangers are like 1/2″ bigger (longer) than the joists themselves, so I doubt they’re doing any good (since the joists don’t actually rest on the metal hanger).
Here’s my concern:
At the top of the stairs where the double header is (that particular span is a little over 11′), the “long” side of the stair connects to that double header with two joists. However there is a slight gap (maybe 1/4″) between this “connection”. I can shine a flashlight up in this gap and to my surprise it appears that only TWO nails are holding in the “long” side of the stairwell. (I may have to upload a picture if you all are having trouble visualizing this).
The home inspector didn’t mention anything about this, so I figured it must not be that big of a deal. But since right above this “area” is the kitchen and that general area has a stove and a refrigerator next to it, and on the second floor is an oversized bathtub, I’m worried that filling the tub up with water (it holds something like 55 gallons?), coupled with the weight in the kitchen could cause those nails to break or slip further, thus dropping the “support” down 1/2″ so that it rests on the metal hanger.
Can I get away with simply filling the gap between joist and hanger with say a 2×4 ripped down and hammer it into the gap? Don’t know about adding extra nails to support the “long” end? I’d have to face nail through 2 2×9 before I reached the perpendicular joist though. (do they make nails that long?) Or, can I simply buy a 4×4 wooden post and fit it snugly underneath the “long” run and the cement floor and bolt it to the cement floor for additional support?
–Kevin
Replies
They say a picture is worth a thousand words.
You just came close to proving it with about five hundred words - wow!
But I think I see it.
Your house was built with green lumber which has shrunk in the meantime. This is what has caused those gaps.
You can and should tap some shims in to the hardware under the joists to take up the slack. in no place did I haer you mention that you have signs of failure, such as sags, vibrating floors, or settlement. Rough cut 2x10 are probably minimally adequate for the span, but the proof is in the pudding and these have been proving themselves for all this time.
The weakest point sounds like it is that juncture between the headers. If I understand it right, you could add some toenails there from the leg header to the cross header. End nailing is not the right way to do this but they probably used some hellacious big nails, if it is anything like the old ones I haver worked on.
A 4x4 can't hurt a thing, or an adjustable jack post, at that point. I assume the basement is not a finished dwelling space? No real need that I can see to bolt it too the concrete.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
You're right.
No sags, vibrating floors, etc. The wood is fir (and believe me that stuff is tough. Had to drill a 1/2" hole through one on the other end of the basement to put a wire through it. Took forever.
anyway, I've shimmed them and will attempt toenailing, but the metal joist hanger (the REAL old kind) protrudes a good 2-3" so I'd have to start a way back.
The existing nails are BIG (ie, thick)
basement is partially finished, but I have no qualms about cutting a hole in the carpet to get to the cement floor.
Figured a 4x4 is nice than a jack stud, although I suppose I could put a frame around the jack stud if needbe for asthetics (or a column or whatever you want to call it).
Thought I'd seen somewhere though that the jack stud had to be on wood in order to avoid cracking the cement floor (unless I want to dig a hold in the cement and put it there).
But thanks for the advice. Yes, home has been fine for 47 + years and even the "big" earthquake we had last spring didn't appear to phase the house (I went around and checked).
Given that there is no sign of failure, the existing hangers are big, ands the wood is cured hard, don't bother with toenails. You'll split the wood and your knuckles. This is a case where, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
Just add a post for peace of mind and shim under the hardware.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Great!
Thanks!