Hi All,
Hope you can give me some thoughts on the following:
I have a side split house – two level basement. I decided awhile ago to install radiant heating on the upper basement level – the family room – due to comments I found in this forum. That room was always cool no matter what. The existing floor is concrete and I have fastened down mesh and strapped on PEX tubing. The tubing is all hooked up to the hot water heater so I’m almost ready to go. Just need the over pour. I have spent a lot of time on the concrete network web site trying to learn about the different options. Is there anyone who can tell me if color etched floor can be ground to a polish the way that coloured concrete can? I have been convinced by what I have read that polishing concrete rather than sealing it is the way to go. The floor breathes and requires no maintenance. Any thoughts on that would be well received. On the same issue, I am concerned about cracking in the new floor. I plan on having 2.5 – 3″ of concrete poured over the existing floor. The room is 25X30 and I am wondering about the need for sawcuts. One fellow I spoke with told me that he never sawcuts radiant tube floor because of the risk of cutting the tubing. When I asked about the cracks he said he just lets it crack…obviously not a desirable option. Any suggestions on this? I have been trying to find out about those brass inserts that you see in commercial floors (in place of grouting). I remember them most from when I was in school…all the floors seemed to be done that way. Does anyone know where I can find infromation on how that is done? I am wondering if it’s something that is done before or during the pour and if it would be less risky than a saw cut? I plan on hiring a contractor to do the pour, coloring and polishing but I want to be informed before I waste anyones time. If I can understand all the aspects and options then I can ask key questions before I ask a contractor to visit.
I would really appreciate comments from those of you who have experience with radiant flooring where you have used the concrete as a finished surface. Please send me your comments even if this post seems old…this project is not going quickly ; – )
Thanks to all
Richard
Replies
The strips you are referring to are either zinc or brass and are used in terrazzo floors. A terrazzo flooring supplier will have them and they can be stuck down with hot glue. Since most of the commercial terrazzo done in my area is epoxy based, the strips are only 3/4" deep. You'd need to find some 3" deep for your application and cut out around each tube. I'm not even sure they make them that deep.
I'm also not sure why you think that "polishing" concrete is preferable to a high gloss sealer. Maybe you could expand on that.
Eric
Hi Eric,
Thanks for your comments. Regarding the polishing vs sealing - Here is the link to the article on the concretenetwork.com web site:
http://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/polishing/standards.htm
Eric,
I didn't mean to cut that respose off so quickly..must be having a glitch with my typing fingers ; - )
The article that the link goes to should explain where I came to the conclusion that polishing is better than sealing. According to the article the surface will be as shiny, if not more, than using a sealer but will not require maintenance....aren't we all looking for a one time fix?
Also stated somewhere on that web site are the sawcut depths required to stop cracking...they say the cut must be 25% of the depth of the pour. In my case it would be .75". Why did you feel I would have to get metal that is the full depth of the pour?
Are the metal strips usually pressed into a sawcut or pushed into the just-poured concrete or are they placed before the pour?
Thanks
Richard
Here's a link to the strips. http://www.ntma.com/03_divider_strips.php
The article you reference is more like an advertisement for the company performing the work than an article on the benefits. It sounds like it will be as expensive as terrazzo without any of the asthetic benefits. Beware anytime something is said to be "maintenance free". Even terrazzo requires maintenance.
I've managed several terrazzo jobs commercially and even as fine as they grind it, without the "crystal" topping it just doesn't pop. I can't imagine concrete would look any better.
I'm not trying to sound negative about your idea, I just htink you may want to investigate the options further.
Eric
Hi Eric,
Thanks for the link and the comments. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "without the crystal topping it just doesn't pop". I'm out of the loop on this lingo...
From what you are saying I gather you would suggest a sealer instead? Can you fill me in on what it is you would do to finish this concrete floor? I'd appreciate your comments because it's clear you know a lot more about this than I.
Thanks
Richard
Article on concrete staining
http://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/acid_etch_staining/index.html
Photos
http://www.decorative-concrete.net/photos_stained.php
Products
http://www.kemiko.com/
You can see that the glossy sealer really enhances the richness and depth of the color. That's what I mean by "making it pop".
Eric
Not2...
In my heated basement floor, we just used control joints that were called (I think) zip strips.
They are "T" shaped strips that are trowled into the surface of the concrete. The top part of the T is then removed, the concrete trowled again, burying the leg of the There is a weak spot where the leg of the T is.
The cracks are not as clean as sawcuts, but they work.
Were I to do it again, I would plan the joint location and place some kind of sleeve around the pipes where the control joints will be. Just some insurance for chafing.
KM
Hi KM,
My limited search has found a few references to Zip strips but no direct product info. Looks like you had the right name though.
I assume these strips come in plastic and metal? When you said the cracks are not as clean as sawcuts are you referring to the straightness of the remaining zip strip in the floor or did you still get curing cracks in the surface?
Your comment about chaffing makes me wonder how you secured your radiant tube down....or did you? I used tapcons and clamps to hold a steel mesh to the floor and then tie wrapped the tube every 12". A lot of work but I was paranoid about the tube getting to close to the surface if I had to do sawcuts. With a 3" over pour and a 25% depth of sawcut required I should still have well over 1" between the top of any tube and the bottom of the sawcut. If there is a better way then I would like to learn.
Thanks
Richard
Richard,
My installation was new construction. I placed insulation
http://www.beaverplastics.com/pdf/insulworks_ds_010529.pdf
over compacted base and placed tube in the pre-formed grooves. The return bends of the tube are held down with big plastic staples.
The zip strip goes in straight, the crack is straight, but not dead straight as in a sawcut. In a 2200sf slab, we had no umplanned cracks, all cracking occured at the control joints.
As for the sleeves, some commercial contractors around here sleeve all places the tube leaves/enters the slab. This includes planned control joints.
Other contractors don't bother with anything. Engineered drawings I have seen indicate to "Install to the manufacturers recommendations".
Whose tube are you using?
KM
Hi KM,
I am using Wirsbos 1/2" PEX for potable water. I wish I was starting with a new floor and not trying to build this over an existing slab....I think it would be much easier. There's a link to the strips in the next note so I will check that out.
Thanks for your comments.
Richard