Hey guys, who’s got some advice about buying a van?
I’m a Handyman, doing home repairs, small remodels, electrical, plumbing, drywall; jack of all trades stuff. Working out of a Volvo sedan has its limitations, so I’m shopping for a van. I figure that a 1/2 ton should be enough – I’d carry maybe 700 lb of tools and supplies and still be capable of carrying perhaps 1000 lbs of materials (difference between curb weight and GVW is about 2000 lb, but I bet suspension would be groaning near the max). My budget tops out at $10K and there are a lot of 1998 to 2001 Econolines around Orange county at that price or lower; Chevvies seem to be $1000 to $1500 more for some reason.
Is mileage all important, or are there things that go bad from age in a warm weather place like Southern California as well? If mileage is about the same on two vans, (I think I want no higher than 80K or 90K miles) is it worth paying $1000 more for a newer model?
So what are the pros and cons of a sliding curbside door versus barn doors?
I like the idea of a window in the curbside cargo door to make left turns onto a big street safer because I can see oncoming traffic without blocking two lanes.
What brand/type of ladder rack is best value? I have seen some nice double locking ones from Adrian Steel for about $500.
If I have to do some demo work, say to relocate a wall or something, is there a clever trick to take the trash to the dump without trashing the interior?
I want tool shelves and bins for supplies, but I haven’t seen any that leave the floor between the wheel wells clear for sheets of drywall, Hardie Backer or plywood. Has anyone successfully notched out the lower part of steel shelf units to leave floor room? Any tips on that idea?
Any other tips to offer a used van buyer?
Thanks guys,
BruceT
Replies
The Chevy/GMC vans are more $ because they tend to be a bit more reliable. Whatever, there's lots of junkyard parts to keep either brand going forever, if you're handy.
Because you'll be hauling tools and materials all the time, and will be buying a used vehicle with close to 100,000 miles, you should consider getting one with a V8. Some here will say a 305cid, others the 350 or 351cid. My 350 has 200,000 miles and still starts good, pulls fine, puffs a bit of blue smoke when cold, not all cylinders are at the same compression, but since it's big, it's not been overworked ever. Mileage is poor.
My van is a G20. Mechanics refer to it as the 'heavy-half' because many components are beefier than for a regular 1/2ton. I also added another leaf spring in the back, so I can carry right up to my full GVWR of 7500lbs or thereabouts with no sagging or loss of control. Avoid the shorty vans.
Pay attention to the rear axle ratio. Higher ratios will 'pull' more but your engine revs are also higher at any given speed. Too low a ratio and your losing too much pulling power, which wears out the engine faster. I first had a 3.7? and when it went I replaced it with a 3.4? or thereabouts: the result was a slight loss of acceleration and a slight improvement in mileage due to engine revs dropping.
Research the service record for the automatic tranny types in these vans. Ford and Chevy have some good and bad ones, so pick accordingly. ODrive trannys can be helpful, or they can be an expensive curse.
Before you buy, get an engine compression test and a cooling system pressure test. Is the steering and suspension good? Tires and wheel bearings? Any computer codes showing? If these are good, have the tranny fluid and filter checked, and the diff fluid as well. Bleed a bit of fluid from the wheel and caliper cylinders to ensure these are not contaminated. Make sure the door hinges are not loose, with good weatherstripping, and that the windows and air conditioner all work. But you already knew that.
I made a plywood platform with front and rear accessed compartments here and there; plywood/drywall sheets lay on top, or can be carried vertically, since the platform is not full width. There are cardboard sonotubes fastened where the ceiling meets the walls, for the light stuff. There's a plywood sheet bolted to the RH side wall, it holds squares and levels, using simple toggles. Between the front seats theres a movable plywood box, open to the rear (for nuts, bolts, plumbing and electrical parts, gun nails); this box is flat on top with a quarter-round lip so I can throw whatever onto it: gloves, notebook, pens, whatever. There's a roll of ductape which is a great coffee holder. The wheelbarrow compressor fits between the platform and the front seats, with enough room for my main toolbox, the hoses and cords, and my skillsaw.
The sliding doors are supposed not to last as long... and there's more to go out of adjustment. Many people like them as they're more convenient. My barn doors are handy though because I can climb up to the rooftop rack by stepping onto the hinge barrels. They open flat, which is very handy when loading the comp.
Last demo I did was a bathroom. I first loaded the used tub, then filled it with the trash wood and drywall. Got rid of the tub as they won't allow me to bring them up the elevator of my 5th Ave penthouse. I usually don't carry demo trash as I farm that out to a buddy who's got a pickup and a trailer.
Bruce, when you get your van, you'll think you're in heaven.
Much more important than age is how well it was maintained. If you're in CA, there isn't going to be much rust, but make sure it hasn't been damaged to the point that the frame is out of alignment. You should be able to get some kind of warranty at a reputable dealer. Yeah, I know, there's a reason the movie 'Used Cars' was made. If you buy one privately, take it to a good service shop and have them check it out completely. It'll be worth it and at that point, you'll know what the condition is as a reference point. If you go with a heavier duty van, you won't be overstressing it and it'll last longer. For going to the dump, think about getting a small trailer so you don't need to trash the interior. Google truck storage systems for racks, etc. If you see what you want and don't want to pay that much (understandable, since the racks are pretty pricey), you could build your own from plywood and screw it into the vertical ribs on the walls, resting it on the wheel wells so you get the clearance for sheet goods. If it's a full sized van, you should be able to stand a 4x8 sheet vertically and a pair of swing out arms should be easy enough to make that keeps it from falling over. Only you know what you need for storage. Make it secure, too.
<So what are the pros and cons of a sliding curbside door versus barn doors>
I have had both versions and I prefered the sliding doors. The sliding doors
work better in a parking lot with other vehicles parked beside you and with the
barn doors every time the wind blows they'll be closing onto your back when
your standing there (my experience)
<I like the idea of a window in the curbside cargo door to make left turns onto a big street safer because I can see oncoming traffic without blocking two lanes.>
The 3 different vans I had didn't have windows in the side and I had no problems
driving. You learn to compensate for the lack of sight and your tools will be more
secure without the glass for the low lifes who like to steal.
<What brand/type of ladder rack is best value>
I had my racks built locally and could have them built the way I needed them for
about the same price( no actually cheaper) for what is sold commercially.
<If I have to do some demo work, say to relocate a wall or something, is there a clever trick to take the trash to the dump without trashing the interior?>
I have always used the 3-mil trash bags from the big boxes and have had
great sucess if you learn not to over fill. For a big job this would be to
exspensive but for the small stuff it works great.
<want tool shelves and bins for supplies, but I haven't seen any that leave the floor between the wheel wells clear for sheets of drywall, Hardie Backer or plywood. Has anyone successfully notched out the lower part of steel shelf units to leave floor room? Any tips on that idea>
Build your own and you can customize it any way you want, My van I use
for side work(see att.) has 3/4 ply on the walls and I can attach any thing I want
to the sides with no pull out..
If you can afford it, get a 3/4 or 1 ton van(GMC), because you'll end up carrying
way more than you think you ever will, and like another poster said they have
heavier componets and tend to last longer.
I hope this helps and when you do get something check back here and let us
know what you ended up doing.
We just went through the same drill. With the deals currently being offered by GM, it seemed like a no brainer to buy new over used. 72 month no interest financing plus $1000 credit for commercial upgrades like ladder racks/bins etc. 1/2 ton Chevy Express sticker msrp was $23,100 and we paid $19,500. It's our 2nd Chevy and we have 1 Ford. The Ford has a larger payload and more powerful engine...Chevy has a smoother ride :-) HTH, Jim
Hi Bruce, I ran a single rear cube van for a good many years. Loved it. If height's not a concern, I'd strongly recommend you consider one. Don't get a dually, much worse fuel economy. Being able to stand up in the back is great. My needs have changed so I don't currently have one.
We just bought a 2004 Ford E150 for DW. She loves it. I got her retired Dodge van with 235k, still going strong (we bought it with 115k for $2k). V8's the answer for long life. Ford gets 18.5 highway, cruising the freeway at 2k rpm. 3 spd with overdrive that works great, but incredibly expensive to rebuild. Didn't consider a Chevy as I've known too many with problems.
Sliders are convenient as long as they work. Seems most that we've run into "only need to be adjusted". We only considered hinged. 2 rear doors is better than one. She thought she needed a side window too. Doesn't anymore, after driving it awhile.
A drive and a compression check are what I do. Take a good look and sniff at the tranny dipstick. If you're not the mechanic, take it there. Forget the model year and go for the lower mileage. For what you've been doing, you'll love a van.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
One of the more foolish things I have done over the years was to get involved in a wine export business - BC wine into the US. One day I will tell the story of how to lose 100G in one year just by choosing the wrong business partners.
Anyway, the business leased a 2000 Chevy Express 3/4 ton van, and it was a beauty. It would haul up to 100 cases of wine which is about 4000 lb. BC and WA are mountainous places, and this van's 305 hauled loads easily over the various passes. I found it very comfortable to drive, which was good, because we put in some big mileage - 20,000 miles in the first 4 months alone. Best of all was fuel mileage, it would reliably deliver 15-17 mpg on the highway; pretty stellar I thought, given the loads and the climbing.
As other posters have mentioned, the hinged barn-style doors will self-close on you at unwanted moments and restrict access in smaller parking spots.
Wally
I've had some problems with parking lot attendents in pay lots with a long van and a few underground garages you couldn't get into with a rack when I ran a truck around downtown Seattle. Probably not an issue for you but you can circle a block or get trapped behind a delivery truck in an alley for a very long time.
Good point pye: the long vans, esp. the long-wheelbase ones, are easier to hang up in a parking ramp. Got one out of an underground garage once (I was already trapped) by deflating the tires - one of the ceiling beams was lower than all the others. The roof cleared by 1/4" or so.
I have driven the 1 ton 15 passanger models from all three manufacturers. My prefrences are the GM/chevy, Dodge (smallest driver side entry door of the three.) Ford. If I where to buy one it would be the Chevy.
Hey PD,
I went a different route. I did like VaTom's last time around and got an old one. I have a 95 Chevy G20 with 150k miles. I figured I might have more time then nerves at carrying another payment. Went through your same routine, and happened to drive by a van on the side of the street. It was at a carpet cleaning business and was retired. What I found out was that an odometer doesnt mean anything. The van had to be running in order to run the carpet machine, so it would idle for full shifts. Here is the good thing... they dropped a new goodwrench motor in it at 122k miles. The bad was that the moisture from the equipment, and a leaky roof window was rotting it from the inside out. I bought it for 2k...figured I had a pretty good money window to catch up with another with a motor that new. They also threw in 2 tires.
I have a friend who has a auto shop on the side, and he let me come in and weld the holes in the rear that I found after lifting the floor covering. Once I fixed the roof window and welded 54 holes that probably took about 2 weekend days, I was pretty set. The doors will probably be a problem too if it was a service vehicle, I found the rear and barn at a junkyard after calling 15. I paid $75 each because I bought 4. I heard that the sliders cost about 500-600 if you need to replace one.
Even if I had bought a new one I was going to paint it, so it worked to my favor. I had to work on brakes for inspection but thats normal maintenance. Other then that its great. I get about 14 miles to the gallon on good days. Felt a little crappy that I couldnt get a bright new shinny one like the other guys have, but now that its the holidays and work is going thin through our winter, Im glad I dont have to drop the 400 extra a month. I call 'er Seabiscuit and little by little she's getting ship shape, and I think Im more proud of her then I would have been another, and because I put some time into it, I know about it... like building... never know whats in the walls if you havent opened them. If you add up the time I still think I got a good deal and have plenty of play room for a problem.
It came with some shelves and a locker in the back, but if you need those, also check the junkyards for a crack up. With the cost of that office furniture it could save you a ton, also the ladder racks go cheap sometimes on e-bay. I saw a guy "buy it now" on a set that cinches a ladder for $40. With the length I can fit a 24 foot ladder up the back end and I rest it on the doghouse console between the seats. I can also fit 10 ft sheets of rock behind the front seats and still close the back doors.
As for the v8 I can get rubber with studs on, and I drove 2 hours up the mountains to a camp with a passenger, clothes, food and water for 4 days, my gear, 12 1 gal paint cans, 5 gallons of tar, roll of felt, 5 rolls of roofing, and pine. Because it was a long trip I got better gas mileage then I do around town.
Oh about the tranny, the guy that had the shop told me just to be careful to keep on the break when shifting and wait for it to engage into the gear or park... he said he put 5 new transmissions in for his father over the years because he would slap it into gear and gas it or throw it in park before it was fully stopped. A van is no Volvo when it comes to that.
Edited 12/1/2004 5:48 am ET by zendo
Edited 12/1/2004 5:52 am ET by zendo
I have the extended Ford Econoline. Thatsthe way to go. Plenty of room for drywall or plywood withabout another four feet left for tools.
My van is about ten years old and never had one problem with it.
I also added extra leaf springs when I first bought it which wasnt all that expensive and for about anothe $400 I had it rustproofed which is well worth it.
Funny enough the dealer that sold me the van wanted almost two grand to rust proof it.
Be well driven
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM