Hello. I am in the final stages of designing a house tha ti will build myself, with a helper. On the first floor there will be some tile and some hardwood — I assume the latter will be 3/4″ thick. I would like the two to be flush and am thinking of running the joists lower to allow for this, since it’s quite possible the way the space divides. My question is, how much lower?
The floor should defelct less than 1/620 — it’s 10″ 2 x 12’s 24″ OC, One layer of plywood… THen what, is what I’m trying to figuer out. The tile will likely be something rustic — not marble or like that.
Ideas?
Replies
If you don't know what you are going to use, how could we?
Maybe you should check with the Mrs instead.
24" OC not good.
Joe H
need to know what you are going to use on both counts....
and a 24OC is not good for the tile portion...
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Can't we come up with a figure that would keep me safe for many say 1/2" thick tile choices? I'm drawing the floor joists... not really choosing tile right now. And does reducing spacing to 16" at tile handle it?
...not really choosing tile right now.
Well if ABSOLUTE level between floor transitions is your goal, you need to be choosing the tile right now.
If you are willing to "come up with a figure that would keep me (you) safe" at this point, then just frame it all level and plan on the possibility that you're going to have to add a thin layer of plywood to one of the surfaces once your finishes have been chosen.
FWIW that's what I would do. 3/4" hardwood flooring will meet up quite nicely with a 1/2" tile applied using wire mesh and thinset.
Just keep in mind that if you go with a wood flooring of less than 3/4", you may then have to go with a tile of less thickness.
But choosing your finishes is part and parcel to the design stage, so you are best off choosing your finishes NOW.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
I know the flooring will be 3/4. I'm up for an extra layer of ply. -- I just wasn't sure if even that is in the ballpark. Why do you say that 24" oc is categorically out.... I thought it had to do with deflection... In any case, does increasing frequency to 16" solv e that?
Your deflection figure applies to the joists. Ply flexes between joists, the greater the spacing, the more it flexes.
16OC at the tile should be right on time....
but seriously....
you need to select your finals and work backwards from there...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I would expect that everybody here is going to tell you that all your floor joists should be at the same height, on a given floor. Then adjust your subfloor height to accomadate the difference thicknesses in flooring material.
Good luck
THanks all. I think I got what I need to know for now -- keep the joists level, but at 16" OC @ tile, add about 2" between joists and ceiling if I want to keep 8' min when I'm done, and work the precise meeting of the floors out when I know more. TX
For Me, Using ceramic tile which is usually about 5/16 " thick :
Thinset with 3/16 notched trowel,
1/4 " fiberock,
Thinset with 1/4 " notched trowel,
Then tile,
usually ends up to be 3/4 - 7/8" Thick , Just about perfect for 3/4 " hardwood
The Tile Councile of America has specs for installing tile over joist on 24" centers.An with them installed over plywood, decoupling membrane, or water resistan gypsum backer board.The don't show one using CBU's or hardi. but I would not be surprised of the backer board manufactures did not have such a spec..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
16" oc will give you a more solid floor, period. It's not about the deflection of the joist, but the ply between the joist in this case.In any case, don't frame one part of the floor higher/lower than the other for the sake of floor covering. Do you really want to deal with exterior stud lengths that change wherever you make a transition from tile, to oak, to carpet. As the Brits say...."It's just not done" :) And for good reason.
Figure out what you need for the spans you're dealing with, and go from there. If you end up with 2x12 or 2x10 16" o.c., go with either 5/8ths cdx or 3/4 advantech over it, 3/4 hardwood where you want it, and 1/2 " bc or hardi (depending on which school of thought you attend) and tile. 1/2" particle board under any rug. You'll be within 1/8th " all the way around, and you won't run into the previously mentioned boo-boos
Bing
ps. What the heck is a 10" 2x12?
If you insist upon knowing, a 10" 2 x 12 is a 10' 2 x 12 with the shift key depressed at the wrong moment. THanks for the tips... THe more you know, the more you know you need to know more.
Unless you have some kind of loads 1 or 2 ft in from bearing points, save yourself some dough and go smaller joists. You could go 2x8 and not be in the same room as the envelope, never mind pushing it. For that matter you might think of 9-7/8 tji or equivalent. In the end it prolly won't cost ya much more than 2x12, and dimension wise, you'll get less shrinkage from a 2x8, and none from engineered lumber.
And I'm all about reducing the effects of shrinkage.....
Bing
ps. What the heck is a 10" 2x12?
Little short guys, cut offs,
Joe H
All your subfloor should be at the same height. The hardwood will be 3/4" the tile will sit on hardibacker (or equivilent) which will bring the tile up to the HW height.
If I were building my own house i'd make sure I built 16" o.c. why cheao out on structure?
Where did you see 1/2" thick tile?
Edited 4/8/2008 8:16 pm ET by MSA1
We see tile of all sorts of thicknesses. Just got surprised on one when the HO and decorator came back from shopping with some sort of handmade tile over 3/4" thick. We had to add another 1/2" layer of subfloor under the rest of the first floor to bring the hardwood up flush. It was already framed, and there was no talking her out of the tile she had worked so hard to pick out....
Why not an another sheet of ply to the floor to be tiled? Add a 3/8-1/2" sheet, depending on tile thickness. I'm doing that to my own laundry room. Works great. And the added ply will help strengthen the floor.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.