Had my rough inpection. The inspector said he would have redtagged me .If it isn’t changed on the final, he would.
Question. I thought the relief valve on a water heater is NOT supposed to be drained into the bottom pan. The way I understood , the pipe going from the relief valve is either CPVC, copper, or galvanized. and the pipe terminates outside.
He told me he wants the pipe draining into the pan. Any thoughts???????
Edited 10/13/2006 8:09 am ET by curley
Replies
What code governs? What climate do you live in (does it freeze?)
around here it terminates outside or to a sump pump if in the basement.larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Here in non-freezing LA, the T&P valve and Smitty pan each get their own separate runs to daylight. Running the T&P into the pan wouldn't work if the valve opened up all the way. The pressure would blast most of the water out of the pan.
-- J.S.
My first thought was no, I wouldn't want mine in a pan. What would you do if there was a sho nuf leak? Then after thinking about it, most pans have a drain line themselves or the capability to do so. If you were to put the relief valve drain line in the pan, you would know that you had a problem due to water leaking thus can be repaired before something else happens.
I would rather do this (drain in pan)than having a leak and not seeing it and then the relief not working when you really need it too. Hot water heaters have the capability to build up a lot of pressure, thus the need for a relief valve. I would hate to be around one that let loose! Just my 2 cents.
Semper Fi
Forgot to add, mine is terminated outside...... :-)
I'm guessing it doesn't freeze much in Mobile. Imagine a slow drip from a PRV terminated outside during a cold winter--the line would fill solid with ice. Then, if the PRV blew there'd be no escape route. I'm guessing the original poster lives in a cold climate, which is why the inspector wants the correction made. The IRC covers this in some detail.
Ahhhh, "I see said the blind man". Climate is everything. That's why we are still sweating today!
Semper Fi
around here relief valve has to drain outside, that way if it pops, it only kills the dog on the patio instead of spraying anybody and everybody outside. Ifg it does freeze the hot water will melt it pretty quick. If the inspector wants it in the pan, he must be one of those that got fired from wally world last winter.
When I was acting manager of a HUD project for seniors, the maintenance man put a reducer on the bottom of something like a two inch diameter relief pipe on the boiler and put a hose on it that went across the floor to a drain! That didn't go over well with the boilder inspector. Maintenance man also blocked off the vents for combustion air because they were poorly designed and kept blowing out the pilot light.
This MM also had the instant water heater on the faucet in the common kitchen set too high. Lady came into my office with burns up and down her forearms and said the faucet she got water for her tea did that to her. I look and the heater is set so high it is flashing the water to steam and blowing hot water and steam all over when you turn on the tap! Had it turned down so it wasn't issuing boiling water! Same guy also replaced all the 20 amp fuses in our fire/emergency annunciator panel with 30 amp because he "was tired of false alarms and having to replace fuses". I could go on for paragraphs about the "interesting" things he did! He was a big buddy of my corrupt boss, so there was nothing I could do to get rid of him. They got rid of me instead.
Edited 10/13/2006 7:26 am ET by Danno
"...so there was nothing I could do to get rid of him. They got rid of me instead."You report the problem, you become the problem.
Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
I was reading the Code Check by Tauton Press. It said you couldn't drain into the pan.
Does this sound like a good idea ? Do it like the inspector wants-but change it after the final? draining outside
Another question. I don't suppose you pros get the code book out and argue with the inspector. It seemed like a lost cause, like you're trying to knock the chip off his shoulder
Yep! Never argue with the inspector when you've got to see him again. Just treat him like a petty bureaucrat, and you're trapped in some third-world airport.
Forrest - yassir!
Just treat him like a petty bureaucrat, and you're trapped in some third-world airport.
Good analogy! Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
From the 2003 IRC:
P2803.6.1 Requirements of discharge pipe. The outlet of apressure relief valve, temperature relief valve or combination thereof, shall not be directly connected to the drainage system. The discharge from the relief valve shall be piped full size separately to the floor, to the outside of the building or to an indirect waste receptor located inside the building. In areas subject to freezing, the relief valve shall discharge through an air gap into an indirect waste receptor located within a heated space, or by other approved means. The discharge shall be installed in a manner that does not cause personal injury or property damage and that is readily observable by the building occupants. The discharge from a relief valve shall not be trapped. The diameter of the discharge piping shall not be less than the diameter of the relief valve outlet. The discharge pipe shall be installed so as to drain by gravity flow and shall terminate atmospherically not more than 6 inches (152 mm) above the floor. The outlet end of the discharge pipe shall not have a valve installed.
From the 2003 International Plumbing Code:
504.6 Relief outlet waste. The outlet of a pressure, temperature or other relief valve shall not be directly connected to drainage system.
504.6.1 Discharge. The relief valve shall discharge full size to a safe place of disposal such as the floor, outside the building, or an indirect waste receptor. The discharge pipe shall not have any trapped sections and shall have a visible air gap or air gap fitting located in the same room as the water heater. The outlet end of the discharge pipe shall not threaded and such discharge pipe shall not have a valve or tee installed. Relief valve piping shall be piped independent of other equipment drains or relief valve discharge piping the disposal point. Such pipe shall be installed in a manner that does not cause personal injury to occupants in the immediate area or structural damage to the building.
thanks...great advice
Read the other side of the page Sections: P2801.5
P2805.5.1 and P2805.5.2
Those sections apply to the drain pan, which isn't what I was referring to. Section 2803.6.1 does not appear to require any particular type of piping. Anyone know what the UBC says about this?
Another question. I don't suppose you pros get the code book out and argue with the inspector. It seemed like a lost cause, like you're trying to knock the chip off his shoulder
It's a valuable skill to know when to disagree with an inspector and when to keep your mouth shut. As you get to know individuals more it's possible to have them ok something on a good day that they wouldn't normally.
Some are quite receptive to a code detail being brought up since they are not familiar with all the codes. Often they specialize and anything outside of that area is a bit less than completely clear.
I'll typically form it in a question and ask him for a little guidence and direction on how to interpret a section of code that seems to apply to the situation. Most inspectors are impressed that there is a code book on site, and when put in a non-threatening way are usually reseptive to what you're doing.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
There was a county in Colorado where the chief inspector was a minor King in his own mind at least. Hewas usually fair, but hard to convince and he would often run a bluff, telling builders something was code when it was not.I forget the detail where once he was refusing to let me get permiotted on, running his bluff. I knew he was wrong so I went in with the code book and approached him with "questions" not arguing but asking things like "how would you interpret or apply this to mey situation...?He ended up approving the application for permit.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
you just described most of the counties here...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
out there, it must be getting to where you need a permit to shovel snow?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
or pay the fees to it..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I was surprised when working in Larimer county, CO and the field inspector came off all hard core take no prisoners. We had 30 days to correct anything that didn't pass inspection or the temp electric meter would be pulled. He calmed down after getting to know us, since we were generally building better than minimum code requirements, but it was a struggle.
Larimer county was (is still?) UBC with nearly 200 amendments, most of which make sense. Strict, but ensured good building.
At the time there was a huge building boom around Fort Collins and most of the inspectors were probably pretty over worked. Today half of them have probably been laid off since building slowed down so much the past 5 years.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Love that tag line.I think Ben Franklin would too. His was "God created beer because he wants us to be happy" or something along that line
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"I see said the blind man"...to the deaf and dumb woman as he picked up his hammer and saw.
Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
The pan drains to the outside, and the T&P drains into the tank. Or, the pan drains into the waste water system via a trapped line and has a special primer that keeps the trap topped up - but the T&P still drains to the pan.
Question. I thought the relief valve on a water heater is NOT supposed to be drained into the bottom pan. The way I understood , the pipe going from the relief valve is either CPVC, copper, or galvanized. and the pipe terminates outside.
He told me he wants the pipe draining into the pan. Any thoughts?
Yeah, that seems odd in several ways. The TPV is supposed to be both temperature & pressure "sensing." The output water could be over 180º at considerable pressure, which is why most places seem to insist that the TPV be plumbed in copper or iron pipe only (CPVC is good for hot water, but not necessariliy extremely hot water, beign the logic).
Now, I've seen many AHJ that allow the tank Drain valve to "dump" into a pan, if that pan drains to daylight. I'm not remembering any that allow the TPV to do so, though (and with the number of old WH with top-mounted TPV, do those then need a n elbow to not let the run-off gush over the top of the tank?)
I've got to say that use of a drain pan is an absolute must, which in turn should have it's own drain line leading to the outdoors. Around here, the pipe from the valve to the pan has to be something other than plastic. The typical water heater has two points where leaks occur, the overflow/overpressure valve is number one and the second is from the top at the sacrificial anode where it's threaded into the top of the heater. After five or six years, the sacrificial anode needs to be replaced or at very least pulled and inspected. If the anode is completely eaten away, the next point of corrosion is at the junction of the anode to the threaded fitting. Once a leak starts here they cannot be immediately seen and eventually find their way to the bottom of the heater, under the insulation. At that point, the bottom of the heater rots out or develops small leaks allowing water to drip off the bottom of the heater onto the floor. If there is no pan under the heater then it rots the wood floor beneath. A pan under the heater, with an attached drain line, is an absolute not an optional feature.
The IRC agrees with you.
Another note (which I believe is UBC-related, not necessarily IRC) is that the PRV piping must be hard-drawn copper if copper is used... in other words you cannot use one of the corrugated copper flex water heater connectors to start the PRV run. I've seen at least one good plumber get nicked for that.
I can see how this applies to a water heater tank, but I'm confused as to how it would apply to a tankless heater. Does this mean that there should be a pan under the tankless with the relief valve draining into it and the pan draining to the outside? If so I've got a problem.
You'd need a pretty big drain from the pan to handle full flow from the 3/4" T/P pipe. Here, you must have both the pan drain (min 1") and T/P terminate outside, minimum 6" above grade, or into a (garage or basement) floor drain.Bill
"If there is no pan under the heater then it rots the wood floor beneath. A pan under the heater, with an attached drain line, is an absolute not an optional feature."Wrong. The wood floor is optional.While it might vary from some codes, I believe that the general requirement for a pan is where water leakage CAN CAUSE DAMAGE.On concrete floors with a floor drain near by it can't cause damage.
Yes Bill, a concrete floor does not require a pan!
Here in Michigan we dont even need a pan (in the basement) just a pipe down to the floor so no one is likely to be burned.
the way i discarge the tpv to a pan is place a tee on the verticel section of a 1 inch drain for the pan tie in the tpv and as long as the requermets for drainage and discharge are met i am good to go