I have done my time in the trenches and have worked for a lot of companies. The company that I work for now builds custom homes and now have got more into multi family units. Currently we are building tri plex’s and the new man in charge laid the law down for my crew. I am a foreman and have a small crew. After a long day of trying to get the footings done for a pour and then dumping 35 + yards of concrete. It is 4 in the afternoon we want to enjoy the weekend and the super calls a meeting. None of has been late for work or abuse the time ect. But he basically tells us that we have 20 minutes for lunch if your late for lunch ie trying to finish something then you have eaten into your lunch time and your
out of luck for lunch.&
#160; The guys look at me and I basically say I don’t have any control. To me your pissing a bunch of guys off that are working hard for you. Am I wrong or just getting old.
Replies
"New Man" will eventually lay down his jacket or Carharrts. When he does, it would be a shame if they got nailed between a coupla sheets of Advantech.
PS, I don't know how old you are, but you're not wrong in my book.
Things like that or peeing in his thermos are funny but don't accomplish anything
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Actually, on occasion they do accomplish a great deal. Has been my experience anyway. Practical jokes that go beyond funny are an effective, tongue-in-cheek way of letting the other party know where some of the boundries are.
The down side is that the OP needs to be astute enough to connect the dots. Hmm... maybe they're trying to tell me something here.
I suppose it could just as often be gas on the fire too.Live in the solution, not the problem.
"I suppose it could just as often be gas on the fire too."That is how I see it. A boss wound up in himself enough to pull stuff like this is the kind of guy who would take it personally and be on the warpath to get back at somebody, anybody....making life miserable for everyone. By taking a conversation directly to him alone, you focus on what the probelm is and who needs to deal with it. No clouding the issue.Now supposing that the OP leaves the job and the crew stays and the new boss keeps making things harder for them anyways....that might be a good time for them to start letting the air out of his tires
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
new man in charge has a very small dick -
my exact first thought.... still LMAO that you pointed it out.... wonder if he drives a hummer... smokes big cigars and likes large guns....
WTF does this guy think he's doing? new rules and attitude ... that goes real well with the construction type... and screw'n with a dudes lunch... yeah right
p
Thanks for the responses. I get to work around 30 to 45 minutes before my start time ( curse of a morning person) ususal have all the tools out for the guys before they get there but now I think I will abide by his rules and be punctual and start at exactly 7:00 as he dictated and leave at exactly 4:00 not more no less. I bet things we change in a quick hurry. I ran into this situation with a company I took my apprenticeship with. I use to go in real early and open up the building for the subs. Get everything set up. Super usually rolled in at 9ish. Then the company questioned my time on my time cards. I never put in time for being early did that on my own accord. I said fine I will start when the super shows up so he can sign my time card and he can sign me out at the end of the day. Needless to say they never questioned me after that. I think barking orders at the guys creates alot of animosity. Guys get into a kinda screw you attitude.
I worked on quite a number of union jobs, often for out of town contractors who bring in their own foremen and supers. At least one of them is always a pusher, someone who has been put in that job because he's a petty tyrant to begin with. "My way or the highway" types.
As others have pointed out, there's a number of ways to deal with such little minds.
I like the direct method. Take him aside or ask to speak with him at the end of the day, whichever seems more likely to work for your benefit. Be friendly but firm and tell him what's on your mind.
Another idea. I have a small digital recorder, about half the size of a pack of cigarettes. It'll record for hours and picks up conversations easily from a shirt or jacket pocket.
I bought it to use while driving, when I'm usually thinking about work related topics and I need to make notes. But it's also helpful to keep records of what a client or an architect, BI, or sub said. As it's digital, it can also be downloaded and saved on the computer, then reproduced as a file or even on a CD.
I'm not saying it'll save your azz from getting canned but it's nice to have the evidence if they don't remember saying something.
The model I have is a Sony ICD-B300, about $40.
two words: Labor Board
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
I don't know what state you're in, but here in California there are state regulations about lunch and breaks. The employer is obligated, as a matter of law, to give employees a ten minute break in the first 4 hours of the day (some exceptions for short days), and a mandatory half-hour lunch period. These rights cannot be waived by the employee.
Your not wrong.
Same ole, same ole.....
Rich Beckman
My advice to you would be this: stick up for your guys.
It's probably best that you didn't open your mouth during that "meeting", but you have the duty and obligation to speak for yourself and your crew. If your new superintendent is sending you signals that your crew isn't working hard enough, and you know they are, then you need to address it and do it fast.
When I was a young foreman, and really didn't give a hoot what anyone thought, I wouldn't let my own employer address anyone on my crew. I didn't care that he signed the checks....I just wouldn't let him walk onto my job-site and interfere in any way, shape or form. As soon as he started addressing the guys about something they were doing, I'd step in and immediately assume all responsibility and tell him that "I told them to do that and.....blah, blah, blah". It only took a few times and the boss only talked to me when he showed up and pretty soon after that, I started meeting him at the curb to get the nails and checks. I will admit to having at least one nose to nose heated discussions....
You need to accept the responsibility and protect your guys and you certainly shouldn't be saying "I don't have any control". Your guys don't want to hear that. If you were my leader and you told me that, I'd be thinking about packing my tools immediately because I would want a stronger foreman, someone that could/would stand up for me and the guys if we were working to maximum capacity.
Everyones situation is different but I never stood for anyone meddling with my guys. Even today, I still don't take it from clients, superintendents, architects or anyone. I don't care if I got the worst guys in the sub....don't mess with us or do anything to upset my apple cart! If we are doing bad...I'm trying my best to get em going and outside interference ain't gonna help it any.
I've always operated with the old adage in mind...."I came here lookin' and I'll leave here lookin'". If you dont' have that mindset, guys like that will step all over you every day just for kicks.
FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
One of the proudest days of my working life was the only time I ever got fired...
For standing up to the boss when he was walking over the crew the same way
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
You're my kind of boss Piffin. When he fired you, I'd be walking out with you. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
The sheep stayed on.
Only the wolves left
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
See? There is that Alpha attitude again..LOL
I too have only been fired once in my life, and it was worth every minute 10 fold, for the education. I was catcher on a collater ( made the 5 and 6 part NCR and carbon contineous forms, like that are used in sales reciepts and such) night shift, 4 10 hour shifts 230 PM till 100 AM, for about 7.00$ an hour..the shop foreskin wanted more boxes per hour, and the antiquated machine was a huffin and puffin and the folders would seize up from lack of lube..so I took it upon myself to not wait till the maint. schmuck would come around and say "yup, it's dry"
I tore down the machine one night and basically rebuilt it..but that "down time" cost the Co. in product not shipped, and the shop fore decided I should be canned.
Seeems that within the next 6 months ( my wife still worked there) the remaining presses and collaters all had major stoppages, due to lack of maintance..except the one I had worked on..They actually had the gall to call and ask me to come back.
The two words I had to say to them were the sweetest I have spoken.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I tried factory work once. Didn't fit into being a cog in a machine
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I read what you wrote too.That is what inspires loyalty and good morale in a crew. It is what will make an average guy show up when he doesn't feel like it and put out more than a good days work when he does.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm just glad I'm not the only one thinking this way. I was fearful that I'd end up in a flame war just because I'm a stubborn pigheaded fool. I just always get fired up when my crew is attacked in any way....even if I don't like them! FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
No, it has to do not only with crew morale, but the whole integrity of the job too.Couple of months ago, I found myself uncharachteristicly yelling at a client because he was stepping outside the chain of command. I was downstairs and heard hum asking my lead carp a question upstairs so I headed on upo,knowing that I needed to be in on this disccussion. In remodeling, you have to come up with some unique solutions to things so the standard generic information doesn't always apply. Mark would have given him the generic answer and it would not have worked. I had already spent twenty minutes figuring out what the owner was trying to figure out for me. I tactfully explained all this, answered his Q and told him that every thing has to go through me and me only and he agreed.Half an hour later, I am upstairs and I hear him asking Mark another Q down below - same kind of problem where he was going to get the wrong info. This time I must have made an impression, because now the guy overdoes it and pesters me about every little thing like wanting my input on paint colours....but I'm getting off track here - the point is that the chain of command is an essential part of good work flow and communications. Trying to go around that system confuses everyone and cancause things to be wrong or get done twice or not at all.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
you're right..
sounds like he's #### out of brains
he's a little man trying to show you who the boss is....
maybe you could call him during his lunch break and hammer him with lots of questions.
or smear some grease in his hard hat so it doesn't get stuck on his hard head.
.
.
.
, wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
Seems to me that boss has to know the chain of command works in both directions. That out of respect to him you didn't "call him out" in front of the crew and that you would appreciate the same in return.
If his ego is so big that he doesn't get the message give him the ultimatum, if that is your thinking. Chances are that if you go, your guys may follow, but DO NOT count on it or let that be your deciding factor. They will have to make up their own minds.
If you and he cannot agree on work styles and procedures and he is the boss then you have to make up your mind. Do not let it fester. Think out your strategy and follow up as soon as possible. Do it professionally and don't burn any bridges if you can help it.
Good luck,
bum
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...
Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home.
...aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Funny storey -My BIL was just telling me this the other day.He is a painter, one of the best I've ever seen.
25 yers ago, he was working in Vegas for an outfit doing rooms in a hotel going up. They were getting pushed by boss expecting them to do a basic room w bath in half a day for a two man crew. That includes cutting in a trim colour, two men, two rooms per day.Then the boss started bitching and pushing for more after a few weeks when they had a good system down and running well. All the guys were grumbling and finally one day the boss said something that set Mike off. He announced he was leaving, knew there were plenty of places in Vegas that needed painting. That staarted the dominoes falling. is working partner said, "Well, if you are leaving, I guess I'm going too!"by lunchtime, most every body on the payroll had packed up their brushes and left.So he is down at the supply store asking the guys at the counter, do you know who might be hiring painters...Guy says, "Well, not sure, but you might try the XYZ outfit, I heard their whole crew just quit this morning""Yeah. I know, but they aren't a very good company to work for.";)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I agree OBB. I've ran into this new superintendent syndrome several times in my career. Quite often, the new superintendent comes in and has a hidden agenda. He's got his buddys from the last company that he worked for and wants them in the sub and the first thing he does in his new company is stir up the stuff to start the process of switching them out. I'd be in that office at the first available moment to dig into the motives and hidden agenda and I wouldn't be worried about "losing my job". There's no sense worrying because if his intention is to move the other crews into that project, it will happen. It's not a matter of if, but when. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
Your best time to have dealt with this new boss jerking your guys round was when he openned his mouth, to take him aside and explain what Jim and I have been saying here, but that is past now.
If I were you, I would get ahold of him aside first thing monday morning and explain thngs to him and ask if there is some reason he thinks you are underperforming, and tell him YOU will handle it, but that you won't tolerate HIM trying to run YOUR crew. Be tactful but firm.
Whether to be ready to walk - I don't know all the ins and outs of where you are at on that, but realize that probably 90% of the azzes who come up with this kind of cr*p end up going down the road themselves in short order, unless they are related to the owner. Family run outfits are a whole 'nother story.
Since hios requirements go outside the labour law, I would be likely to go over his head and tlk to the owner if he does not capitulate, explaining tht I would rather not file a complaint with the labour board and keep things running smoothly and productively with good crew morale.
Odds are good that this new supervisor is trying too hard to make a good impression on the owners without realizing he needs you more than you or the owners need him.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
This can't be union, because if it was that guy would be in direct violation of labor laws, and secondly he would be bounced around so far on that jobsite by the union he wouldn't know which end is up.
The big mistake is that the guy is wrong by calling a meeting with all the guys. The meeting should have been between you and him. Secondly, he is just plain wrong in calling those kind of shots. Twenty minutes is not enough for a lunch, it should be 30 minutes minimum with a 10-15 minute break for every 4 hours worked as mentioned above. This guy is making a huge mistake because the worse thing you can do as a boss is get the crew and workers pizzed off at you and not on your side.
I was a foreman for some years and I would not put up with that kind of bull ####. The first thing you should do is go right to that boss and lay out to him that you are in charge of your guys and if the work is getting done (which it sounds like it is), then he needs to back off big time. Tell him that you guys take a half hour lunch, and there will be breaks, and never to call a meeting like that with that kind of stuff in front of all the guys again. Be ready to walk, but stick up for your crew. Man, you're on their side!
This happened to me a few times and I called an in house meeting for the whole company, demanding a handbook, and confronting the bosses on a number of issues. It went over like a fart in church with the bosses, but I'll tell ya what...those guys on the crew loved working with me. And we turned out the work. I eventually quit that company because of the unfairness and squabbling, and from what I hear, those guys still can't hang on to good foremen and all the old subs (who were the best in the area) won't work for them anymore.
You gotta really make guys inspired to work. If they feel like they're being treated fairly then the day just flys by. You also have to be the hardest worker of the bunch and show them that.
Being a foreman is not easy. You are the liaison on the job, and the burnout can be very quick.
What Jim Allen and Piffin said is 100% dead on. By their former posts I know that both of them can be like pit bulls if there is a bee in their hat about something, and that's the way you have to be in this situation. Guys that stick up like that for the right thing make me glad I do what I do.
Good post by the way.
Sounds like he's trying to learn how to be a good leader. I agree with the others. If your crew isn't in the wrong, take him aside and talk to him. If he is persistint in his stupidity then kick him in the nuts. Take your lunch when your supposed to. No matter what. A couple of pizzed off concrete trucks sitting and waiting for you to finish lunch might josstle his common sense back.
And when did lunch go from being Half hour to twenty minutes?
"You can't roller skate in a Buffalo herd." Roger Miller
The superintendent is saying that lunch time is from noon till 12:30. If the guys are busy doing something and don't want to start their lunch till 12:10, that's their bad and they still have to get back to work at 12:30.This is indicative of a superintendent that wants to micromanage. He doesn't trust mankind to be honest with their 30 minute lunch period and his only method of knowing that he isn't being cheated is to see the guys working at 12:31. Guys like that and I don't work well. It doesn't take very long and we've parted company, so I'd probably part company after our next ten minute meeting. Life is too short to work for guys like that. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
It might not be a job he want to give up over something stupid like that. I'd still take lunch at the exact time he specified no matter what.
"You can't roller skate in a Buffalo herd." Roger Miller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x8B6C54ggY&feature=related
There is a world of difference between 'leadership' and 'management.'
Continue getting the job done. If you get 'caught,' stand firm. Why is he taking lunch 15 minutes late?" "My watch says he's right on time."
If the newbie continues to push, offer to trade jobs for a day. I bet you can do his job better than he can do yours. ( A 'gentler' way to do this is to take a week off, let him try his hand at it.)
Tell him straight: "I've busted my tail getting a crew that works as a crew, who will bust their tails for me ... don't mess with my recipe! I don't care what they said at that management seminar - do you want things done 'your way,' or do you want thing actually done?'
we have the problem when placing concrete that the crew will walk off the job at lunchtime, when concrete truck are still pouring. we dont stop nobody from eating but we need them to take turns, we usually buy a box of chicken for them. some time you cant stop. and at my company the computer deduct thirty minutes from you time no matter what, even if you work it, cant take off early because of the computer. so we just take an hour the next day to make up.
Sounds like 12 o'clock is 12 o'clock.
You can be eating your lunch while the new guy in charge eats a load of concrete.
You're right, he's wrong.
Legal Disclaimer: The preceeding comments are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as professional advice. The reader of these comments agrees to hold harmless the poster, EJCinc, from any and all claims that EJCinc offered professional advice, ideas, or comments to the reader that may or may not have resulted in the damage, injury, or death to the readers property or person.
When i was young and had 3 small kids at home i was in the union, A couple of times the boss bent the rules like short lunches, no coffee breaks And disrespected the men, All of these jobs came to a bad end with no notice of layoffs , We needed this info to plan our next jobs, I decided never to be disrespected again, Might as well lay me off now, strange that once i stood up for myself it never happened again they just went to the next guy that would take it. In the army a officer never address the men without going through the sergeant, Although i was not in the Army my uncle was a first Sergeant and he told me only he talked and gave orders to the men for most things, The officers had to talk to him first, Chain of command, If i was a foreman and the super did this to me i would consider it disrespect towards me, Could be he has no clue so i would pull him aside and talk to him, If you dont expect him every day to give his "motivate the troops speeches"
The chain of command is important. Every once in a while, I'll show up on a jobsite. Since it's my nature to look for inefficencies and then try to correct them, I sometimes open my mouth, despite my best efforts to bite my tongue. It has never worked out and usually before things get out of hand, Frank just steps in and tells the guys "Don't listen to him....just do what I told you". That just makes me laugh cause I know he's right. I'm kinda chuckling about this because the last time I butted in (last week), I ended the half minute intervention myself telling the carpenter "Don't listen to a word I just said....just do exactly what Frank told you to do." I think the adage "Too many cooks spoil the broth" applies here.It does drive me bananas to watch the boys work so inefficiently though. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)