What y’all think of this?
Just bid a job today — and made the sale. Simple residential remodel/reno, will have elec and plumber subs in on it. I had contract ready to sign, just as I pushed it across the table, HO (an engineer, of course), wants me to initial an addendum to the contract. Of course, I get my contract (unsigned by him) back on my side of the table, and look at his addendum. The addendum was total BS, a list of safety and control items. Among them were (paraphrased):
All workers must wear hard hats on the job
All workers must wear ansi eye protection
Curb parking only for vehicles, no driveway access for even unloading (175′ to curb)
Extension cords must be minimum of 12/2 grounded, not to exceed 100′
Extension cords must be orange or safety yellow in color, and excess coiled up
No radio or excessive talking on jobsite (HO not on site during the day anyhow)
and it goes on and on and on
What y’all think of this BS? Most of it sounded like he stole it maybe from a commercial contract. Needless to say, he didn’t get a chance to sign my contract, and I politely withdrew my verbal bid. I flat out told him that these terms were a “little” excessive for a residential remodel contract and that I wouldn’t be interested in meeting all of these conditions.
All that was going thru my mind was “RUN!!! He’s a freaking idiot!”
Replies
pass you do not need the problems
Iwouldn't work for this guy - but before you withdraw the bid ya tell him you have to raise the price to meet the conditions in his "addendum"
i'd politely decline.. .. but i'd also be curious.. how does he enforce the addendum ?
do you put a buck inteh kitty for every violation.. and where's the quid pro quo ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Absolutely. I'm an engineer myself, but my theory is: I pay you to do a job; I figure you know what your're doing. Go ahead. It's not my liability insurance covering you guys, and I'd have a radio on myself.
You should have told him there'd be a 30% upcharge to cover the addendum.
I don't think 30% would even cover the extra time for carrying materials in from the street, especially not if I was doing the carrying.
sounds like when I was working at intel ,,,,, that place was safty bs hel l
Daniel
RUN FOREST RUN!!!!
I read the first two and thought ahhh the guy is just worried about saftey then get to the third one 175' and he wants you to hoof material. P!ss off, No radio, if hes not home P!SS off, No talking, what the F@#$ are you in third grade, people talk and B.S. Its human nature, beyond that it makes the day go buy faster, what is this communist russia, you cant talk at work? Extension cords, orange or yellow, what the he-ll does the color have to do with anything, and the excess coiled up, That'll cause more triping then it being rolled out.
I think it's been covered.
Get out quick...I see caution tape ahead!
Not that the ideas were bad......just that someone that would think they should all be signed off on is bad.
And that's before all the daily fun of remodeling started!
They just keep getting better and better.
But like Mike said..I'da been real tempted to give the old right-back-at-ya to him.
Scribble something like...as we all know, construction is very dangerous.
And my legal advisor requires me to keep on file the address of the location you and the entire family will be residing at thru out the entire remodeling process, in the event there is an on site accident and we have to notify you.
All other correspondences will be handled in the usual manor.......at the predesignated location which will be a minimun of 100 yds away from the site in any and all directions...as the HO is not to set foot in the designated "hostile environment".
Thank U for yer cooperation. Drive safely.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
After reading all the other replies, I can't say anything you haven't already heard. I wolud just walk, no rudeness because that could hurt your business. You did bid, so he can't bad mouth you too bad without lying. I just wonder when he will have to buckle and decide he wants the job done verses trying to enforce his "laws"????I have a friend who works for a contractor in Austin, Texas with over 200 folks on staff, in other words a bigger outfit, and he said they wouldn't take the job. The 175' walk, and the cord color would run them off first. Not that it matters, but where do you live?
I'd really like to know how this turns out. If it were I, I'd drive the place from time to time and see if you ever see some poor guy carrying sheetrock, or whatever, 175' from the road.
Since the contract on your side of the table, you could have just added a zero in the appropriate spot.
Joe H
Drive by after the project gets going and tell us how many people around the job site are wearing their hard hats and not parking in the grass.
Whale Oil Beef Hooked!
The no driveway access was all about leaving oil spots on his spotless driveway, so his spotless Lexus would not be exposed to such filth and bad habits. Like my *ford* would ever leak. ;)
How was he to enforce this whole 'addendum'? Wanted to hold 25% of job as final payment, to be paid out only IF he FELT that all his requirements had been met by all workers.
He didn't see my contract again - I am out of it now.
my gut reaction after saying no thanks would be that he plans on you breaching the contract. Then he either doesnt have to pay you, or pays you less because of your breach in the contract additions. I think the contract is setting you up like the proverbial bowling pin.
While many of those additions use common sense, they have an underlying feeling of being toooo detailed.
It sounds like your potential client works for a large petro-chemical firm or electrical production/distribution company. Something that requires (and enforces) a vast array of safety procedures that may or may not be related to common sense. He is trying to extend his working world into the residential arena, and reality is the victim. I've worked with hundreds of engineers in the nuclear field, and most are pretty reasonable characters. But this guy has gone overboard and will drown in his own conceit before too long. The best thing to do is what you did, run fast, run long, and run hard. And don't ever go back, even to check on the poor sap that took the job. Those few engineers that have an over-bloated opinion of their own self worth are best left alone; you can never win an argument or get them to concede any point.
But please don't prejudge all engineers by this one jerks attitude. I remodel for a living, and my degree is in Nuclear Engineering Technology. It just took me 25 years to realize what I wanted to do when I grew up.
That was a good list will have to save it.
Didn't see ear protectors or steel toe boots w/nonslip soles or fall harnesses.
need to add those.
forgot saw guards
oops, missed the on and on.
Can you print out the whole list so others can use it?
;-)
bobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's BT Forum cheat sheet
Edited 3/4/2003 9:56:16 AM ET by bobl
Don't forget "No nose-blowing or sneezing," and hiccups are deducted from the final bill at the cost of $1 per.
Seriously, this shocked me. Good wake-up call for everyone to look for signs of trouble. I was thinking of this when I heard back yesterday from a prospective client that my request of a $500 retainer was excessive. And foolish me--I was giving them a 50% break on normal! Red flags. Hit the door, Jack. Thanks for sharing stories like this. It keeps my idealism in check.
I don't wear mis-matched or holie socks, hate the radio, work alone and am anti-social. Plus I feel good when my electrical cords are properly wound up and I can't work 15 minutes without shop-vaccing behind myself.
Can I have a lead on the job?
remodeler
You could probably MARRY him!
The local ACE hardware store has an extension cord hanging on the front of the shelves where the cords are.
This cord was coiled up, on the job. Just enough strung out to get the job done, the rest neatly coiled away.
The coil was one big melted blob.
They claim that it never shorted. It never actualy caught on fire. It just melted that way, because of the heat buildup of all that wire coiled together. They say that you should run the cord out, let the air get to it.
hehehe
I didn't have the heart to tell them that if they'd used a bigger cord, they wouldn't have had the problem.
Quittin' Time
even with the proper sized cord..that could still happen.
lots less likely though.
when "coiled" tightly......and electricity is flowing thru.....the cord can become one big electric coil......due to the magnetic field created........then......flash.....
over heats and fire.
Cords should be un-coiled.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Good point.
Quittin' Time
I too would like to see the complete list. I do note that you decided to bail out so I don't have to advise that.
All workers must wear hard hats on the job
Sometimes this is a good idea -- especially in comercial settings. But even then, dry-wallers don't wear them, painters don't know what they are and it wouldn't make any difference to carpet-layers anyway.
All workers must wear ansi eye protection
Again a figment of a lawyer's image of the ideal world. Certainly use eye protection when grinding, welding ec.
Curb parking only for vehicles, no driveway access for even unloading (175' to curb)
This is a biggy. What if there isn't enough curb parking? I was on one job - for the best medical school in San Diego - and I had to park a half mile away. Everytime you need a tool or a part, it's gonna slow you down.
Extension cords must be minimum of 12/2 grounded, not to exceed 100'
What if the nearest outlet is 110 feet away?
Extension cords must be orange or safety yellow in color, and excess coiled up
How can you see the cords on a yellow or orange floor? They would just blend in.
No radio or excessive talking on jobsite (HO not on site during the day anyhow)
Cell phones are a form of radio. Does he really mean what he says? Is this place a convent?
It sounds like this guy wants the job done but he also doesn't want the job done. He should have included his stipulations in his original request for proposals.
~Peter
The guy wanted the job done for 3/4 price.
Quittin' Time
This thread has inspired me to post new rules on my worksites:
When doing remodels/renovations within a clients home, the rooms in question must be totally empty of furniture, dirty clothes, toys, wall hangings and dust bunnies before I will begin. Toilets must be flushed and a fresh roll of TP provided throughout the course of the project.
There shall be no arguing or disagreements between Husband and Wife of client in my presence.
Children may be seen but not heard and only then, from far, far away.
Clients and their offspring, friends, relatives and neighbors are allowed into workspaces ONLY when wearing OSHA approved protective gear, including a full mask with a bio-filter.
After work commences, there will be no second thoughts or criticisms.
No one, and I mean NO ONE touches any of my tools except for me and my employees.
I am free to come and go as I please.
Payments shall be made immediately upon billing.
Flattery and praise about the quality of my work upon completion is not only mandatory, but it must be put in writing.
Heres a few I would like to see enforced.
No asking or suggesting on ways to do my job if your not trained, I don't go to your office and tell you how to file paper work, don't tell me how to run my tools.
If you have a big dog, and it doesn't like people, keep it penned up when I am there, almost got bitten the other day.
I am currently just an employee. All matters pertaining to billing, color choices etc shall be taken up with the boss.
Yes it is a problem for me to pick up what ever little thing you need when I am at the hardware store or lumber yard.
No I would rather not help you move your furniture when I show up to work, I don't want the responsibility of anything being broken
Along with the one above, If I show up to replace a window, lay trim, demo a bathroom or kitchen, remove your personal stuff before I get there, I do not like to spend half an hour moving plants, personal objects etc.
I showed up to remove wallpaper from a bathroom 3 days ago, wet towels, dirty panties, and bra sitting in the middle of the floor counter top littered with toothbrushes/paste deodorant etc. H/O gone for the day Sorry I don't get paid enough to deal with that sh!tView ImageGo Jayhawks
I had one like that a few years ago...total retrim, paint, tile, new carpet, etc. Nice house, well-to-do people. Had a single child about 10 years old.
They took off for Europe for several weeks while we did the work.
Classic case of "tidy-looking-place-at-first-glance-but stand-back-when-you-open-a-closet-or-cabinet" type home.
The house was 4 bedrooms. Parents had the master, but the little boy would live in one bedroom 'till it was a pigsty, then move into the next one and so forth.
We absolutely spent as much time moving and shuffling stuff and picking up legos and electric train parts and furniture and dirty underwear than we did actually working constructively on the house. Remember that thread by the guy with the stuffed-full van? That's what the little boy's rooms looked like.
There WAS unintended revenge: They returned about a week earlier than expected. We had the carpet removed on the main stairway...they got in late at night, came in the house and DW kicked off her shoes to run upstairs to the bathroom...
Tack strip can be painful!
He he he, Have to remember that one...
I dont know why people renovate or remodel their homes when they dont take care of them in the first place. If you didnt take care for your stuff before, what makes you think spending thousands of dollars to redo something is a good idea
View ImageGo Jayhawks
Edited 3/4/2003 8:24:51 PM ET by CAG
Okay, let's all take a look at this from a different prospective. How often do we get such HUGE FREAKING signs before the project begins, that this is one acehole to steer clear of. I would have pulled my contract back, craned my neck back as I looked at the ceiling , and said loudly "thank you GOD for saving me on this one, I'll be in church on Sunday" said thanks for the opportunity to bid, and good luck with your project as I made a B-line for my truck.
This reminds me of a client I had early in my career. I wanted EVERY job, so I'd put up with some of the most inane stuff you could imagine.
This one lady was "interviewing" contractors for a kitchen remodeling. I was there for nearly 4 hours patiently answering questions about design, subs, techniques, materials, etc. She then comes up with this question; "Do you remove old drywall nails or just pound them into the wood?" Being tired and a little annoyed I responded, "We don't do either! We mark the location of the nails and then cut HOLES in the new drywall to go around them!"
She said she didn't want excess iron in her wood so she'd like me to remove the nails if I got the job.
great list just turned on the printer , they'll be in uyse before the end of the month!!
And next week we will see a thread started by this potential client crying the blues about how no one ever calls him back.If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?
suggest to him professionally that if he wants to run his own project, he is welcome to it. say see you later. rg
I like to limit myself to one Home Depot visit per month.....
carpenter in transition
P. B. ......Betcha the customer was a damn liberal . Huh B.W. hehehe.
The ONLY thing that would have slowed my departure is the "Wait To Start" light in the Dodge!
I sure hope you played the lottery that week with luck like that.
Mike O.