Hi,
I’ve seen a lot of informton here about Anderson vs Pella here but it is years old and companies change. I’m interested in current information on Anderson and Pella, both the quality of the products and the companies.
Here’s where I am. I’m having a three season porch done on Cape Cod. When the plans were done we specified Anderson 400 series CXW 245 casements. The porch may eventually be heated, that is still up in the air. One builder I’m having quote the porch says he can get a better quaity window, better price and service from Pella. He prefers them because he has had trouble with Andersons service in the past. I am going to bring the plans to a Pella showroom today to see what they offer for casements that would compare to the Andersons. Cost is somewhat of an issue or I’d probably go with Marvin but I am interested in a good quality window that is going to look good and perform well in 20 years as well as today (if that is realistic with any company).
So, any comments on Pella vs. Anderson today? And, if I can ask a second question, what are the most important specs to consider when lookng at windows?
Thanks for any input.
George
Replies
George
Here, Pella's service and supply used to be first rate.
Things change and some scumbag no service worth the effort, no records retention and seemingly no idea of what it takes to be a good company.........................company took this operation over.
They now suck. And that in turn makes Pella a non recommended product as far as I'm concerned. The window / door offerings from Pella inc. may be fine and I would install them, I let the customer know that after sale (and b/4 for that matter) is bogus.
I have Marvins from '88 in our house. All are good. 1 pane showing some signs of seal loss, but not to the point of milky glass etching yet.
At the time, an expensive product. Worth it, I think so.
If your service is good from either in your area, I'd think the products about both in line with each other for features and operation. Andersen has in the last several yrs evolved into a very decent architectural window designer. They just didn't rest on their laurels. In turn, their offerings tend to get a bit confusing, way many things available.
Just put in almost 10,000. dollars of Pella designer series glass--3 large awning combo's, and one slider.
Slider's mutins rub on the bypass weatherstrip. Homeowner calls supplier-2 weeks to look at it. Paint would undoubtedly be starting to rub off on these prefinished doors by then. Thank goodness I could enter the weekend without worrying-they bought the glass, I was merely hired by them to install.
It's true that local service CAN vary, but as a company Andersen is about 1000% ahewad of Pella, and you can always go to the company with Andersen directly. I have had two customers here who went directly to Andersen for 20-30 year old windows andget excellent service, one even free glass replacement . I was then recommended to do the installs by the local distributor.
With Pella, I have had twice where only a year afer Iinstalled their poroducts, once I had signed of as satisfied, that I was told flatly to F-off by their service people.
The exact language last time was, "If you think I am coming out there again to take care of this, you are crazy!" You see they had already made 3-4 trips to fix things wrong with their products on a whole house order. They get tire of fixing theior own screw ups after a while.
Just last week I saw a fairly new Pella casement with the same old problem that has had them rotting out for ages.
They do the cladding with the AL lapped the wrong way to shed water.
It is only a matter of time until caulk fails in that joint
Pella has corrected their lap problem
the sash you saw must have been from older stock.
Want a good laugh, ask them why they changed the lap direction.
Question:
I put in Pella wood casement windows in my house in 1985, and have not had any problems, exept that the taller ones have always operated somewhat poorly compared to the shorter ones. But I never expect them to rot or need replacement. Now I am designing a new house, and will use casement windows again, but I am necessarily committed to them being Pella.
I have not looked into what is available, but what I have are the ones with the removable inner glass so they can have blinds in between. I tried those blinds and decided I did not want them. A big disadvantage of the removable inner glass is that there are two extra glass surfaces to clean, and you have to remove the inner pane to do that.
Pella is still committed to that idea of putting the blinds in between the glass. Does Andersen and Marvin do that? If I did not care about the cost, what would be the most thermally high performing, and most durable casement window available? Would it take a wood window to meet that criteria?
kd
You like to do research, so I suggest you apply that to your window selection. There are specs that will make your head spin and with the cost of glass, I would never tell you what to use.
For those of us that use building products regularly, customer service is a large influence in what materials and products we might suggest. I am a remodeler, not a builder-so what I might like for job might not be a perfect fit for a whole house.
Personally, we used Marvin in the construction of our home in 89. We are very satisfied with them. Would I recommend now? Sure. I regularly use Andersen also. A good window from a company that I have found to stand behind their product and back up and parts that are available for their windows from a long long time ago. Our local dist. is also good, no bs stories, prompt service and delivery. They have expanded their line as well as their price. Well worth investigating their several price pts.
Pella? you've read the reviews here already I'm sure. I like their product, their backup not so much anymore. There were problems in some units with the overlay direction of the cladding. They have changed that now. Ask a salesman why? If you get an answer that it will keep them from prematurely rotting out, let me know.
I would choose a clad wood window and recommend such. To me I have found them to be the best of what's available for most of my applications. I have installed fibreglass in a couple brick homes and for those jobs-that was the best bet. These were a pull out the old steel frames and install new. In the woods, damp location............still good.
So, good luck in your studies.
Overlap
So, if I understand it, this overlap issue with Pella windows is in the mitered corners of the exterior aluminum cladding. The overlaps are symmetrical to each other between the corners, so the overlaps across corners, face each other. That means that the overlaps on the bottom of the sash are facing upward to catch water rather than downward to shed water. That is what I see on my windows from 1985. Is that the overlap issue mentioned above?
It does seem like a significant design flaw. I suspect they believed the shingling effect was not needed because they could just rely on the sealant under the joint to keep water out. And to make the joints properly shingle, the upper and lower aluminum pieces would need to be two different parts.
I am glad I have learned about this matter here. I have approx. 44" roof overhang, so it protects the windows, but the first floor windows do get rained on sometimes. Somehow, I am going to flash those wrong-way joints.
You pretty much got it.
And I understand the part situation, but I also had a feeling that any sash could become a left or right opening w/o any problem.
Additionally, an awning could be an option as well-with the uni-lap feature that they so mis-designed.
Another place to keep a keen eye on, the seal between the glass and the sash frame-when that vinyl "stop" shrinks back, water gets in and has nowhere to go.........................so it rots from the inside till you finally see it-a little too late.
Several window brands had that problem-Pella among them from windows of the late 70's on up.
A guy could specialize in rot repair and make money. Me? I'd rather not, but many of my calls have been for just that. Sometimes you can isolate and repair-others, it's more dollar prudent to just shit can something and replace.
Best of luck on your project.
Preventative maintenance
Thanks for your comments Calvin. I think I am going to go over my windwows with a fine tooth comb to see what I can prevent from rotting. I could see using silicone to seal those wrong-way lap joints. I would work out something meticulous so it does not look cobbled. I have to figure out exactly how those windows are made, so I can head off any problems. The way I have these trimmed both inside and out, and the way they are sealed, the removal and reinstallation would probably cost four times what the window would cost.
clean your joints and apply a small bead of colour caulk to match along your seams. Their sealant does fail over time and it dpoes trap water to cause rot, sometimes in as little as ten years
Caulking the joints
Thanks Piffin. I will seal the joints. I seem to recall that I could see a bit of their sealant in the joint, almost squeezed out a little. But I don't see any of that now, so it must go away in time.
Anderson vs Pe4lla
About ten years ago I installed about 35K worth of Pella windows in a shorefront home in CT. Many were casements, between ocean winds and salt air they are all junk now. The metal cladding is coming off, the cranking mechanisms are all breaking. I would never consider Pella for my home.
.
I was never too crazy about the cranking mechanisms on my Pella casements. They seem flimsy, although they have held together for 26 years. But they are squirrely to close because the the little dog that is supposed to catch them and draw them fully closed misses the hook feature and jams. So you have to back off of the crank, then crank a couple turns fast, and stop abruptly, so the window coasts past the jam point, and crank fast to catch up with it and bring it in. The design of that part of the mechism is stupid. It is there to take over for the crank because the crank runs out of leverage as the window is nearly closed. But that hook grabber feature that is suppose to take over for the crank does not have any leverage either. But it does work great for jamming the closure.
I can't stand the thought of windows decomposing to the point of needed replacement. But I guess that happens all the time.
Prior to seeing this thead, I never suspected any issues with my Pella windows. But in addition to what has been mentioned here in the way of problems, there seems to be a lot of bad press on Pella. They are being sued in a class action suit for that overlap design flaw in their aluminum cladding.
I have no idea if my windows have any rot problems yet, but I would sure like to find out. However, that would seem to be impossible to tell what is going on under the aluminum. But if I knew what is going on under the aluminum, I think it would help in developing a plan to fix the problem. What I would like to find out is exactly how those casement windows are made. Is there any way to open that aluminum up and see what is happening inside?
If I have to re-engineer and rebuild the windows, I will, but replacing them is out of the question.
kd
Personally, I would leave well enough alone.
Sure, inspect closely what you can see, but if you start to "open up" those corners, you'll never get them back together again properly.
I'd use something non silicone from Sashco in a clear. Apply, then wipe down (into the overlap) with a dampened with thinner rag, getting just enough in that joint to seal it, but not leaving an unsightly bead.
Be sure to check the seal at the glass also.
All the damages I've seen in this design have been in the corners, so the glass bead could also be suspect (not just the cladding joint.
And, unlike many casement finishes, make sure to reseal (or seal in the first place) the underside of the sash.
To loosen or make the opening/closing travel better, get some spray lithium with the fine directional straw and lube the metal guide channels at the top and bottom, along with the casement operators themselves. Make sure to get it up in the cylindrical crank gear along with the pivot points of the arms. Ditto with the sliding rod that moves the sash in/out.
Yes, I suppose the best approach is just to do everything to prevent the problem from getting worse. I guess that whatever is going on uder the aluminum will stop if water is prevented from entering. I don't think that rot will continue without moisture just because it has begun and is present. People talk about dry rot, but my unerstanding is that dry rot is rot that was caused by moisture, but at times, will be dried out with no moisture present. So one might mistakenly conclude that the wood is rotting under dry condtions.
I notice that the putty sealing the lower edge of glass to the sash is dried, cracked, and/or missing in a few spots, so I will re-do that too.
I am going to call Pella tomorrow and see what they say.
I have been cleaning and lubricating the mechanisms this year, and that does make a lot of difference. There are lots of points that can stand some lubrication, even the crank knob.