Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

andrew d. Lets try it again. . .

| Posted in General Discussion on

*
b “Oh lord, here comes Fusco; -hand me that hemlock, will you, Plato?”

b Socrates

“this is a useless string
of gibberish?” …

Now I’d say that all the numbers and letters and emblazoned icons that surround the words of Joe might be called a useless string of gibberish. So many ways to chat, so little to say…

Replies

  1. James_d'Andie | | #17

    *
    >Well, I am at best, an average man...

    Well, then, apparently there is living proof that entropy exists...

  2. Guest_ | | #18

    *

    Yes you are proof, because both your replies were conceived through useless energy. It come from your mind.

    Joseph Fusco

    View Image

    "Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth."

    Socrates

    1. Guest_ | | #19

      *Tommy B.,Congrats........You're a Texan.God love ya.Ed. Williams

  3. James_d'Andie | | #20

    *
    b "It come from your mind."

    Oh! Thank goodness! And here I just thought I was pulling it out of my- well, I imagine I don't need to say where; you seem to have visited your own font often enough...

  4. Guest_ | | #21

    *
    Joe,

    "resemblance's"? Everytime I see that I cringe.

    I'm with James d'Andie--here comes Joe, pass the hemlock. I don't understand why someone with so much to contribute has to use so much vitriol. Maybe the sysop could delete the constant insults and BS leaving the "good Joe" useful advice.

    Doug

    1. Guest_ | | #22

      * Doug,

      There is only one Joe. I enter always with both palms facing up.

      Try not to cringe, it shows your missing the point. . .

      Joseph FuscoView Image"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth." Socrates

      1. Guest_ | | #23

        * grammarian,

        Thanks for the lesson. I'm always willing to learn about something I might misunderstand. As many know this topic is an especially weak one for me. You're (see I'm learning already) not the first to point out my deficiency in this subject and I'm sure you won't be the last.

        As far as "resemblance's" is concerned in the quote, it refers to quantities that "belong" to that certain truth, making the use of the apostrophe (') s correct. This is of course my opinion. If this thinking is flawed you might be just the man to straighten me out. I say this because you yourself have been "straighten" out many a night. This is obvious because you're (see I'm learning again) such any expert at having you're (still learning) ass in the air, how else could you comment.

        One thing that is NO JOKE is using my email address at this site. I'm sure once the sysop realizes this they will remove it. That is if you don't first. You would not want to place the Taunton Press in a "compromised" position now, would you?

        P.S. You bear a resemblance to a certain person here. . .

        Joseph FuscoView Image"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth." Socrates

        1. Guest_ | | #24

          * grammarian,

          Now that's a good little boy. Now go play with the rest of the children. . .

          Joseph FuscoView Image"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth." Socrates

          1. Guest_ | | #25

            * Barrister,

            The truces you seek in this email will be bitter sweet. I will comply, since I really enjoy helping people out here at BT and dealing with you and your constant idiocy has become old. Also, since I will never have anything further to say to you, you will receive no emails from me.

            But, be for warned. . . that if you jerk with me again I'll burn the white flag.

            Joseph FuscoView Image© 1999."Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth." Socrates

  5. James_d'Andie | | #26

    *
    Methinks thee Joseph to mistake experience for wisdom,

    incoherent rambling for repartee,

    and quantity for substance.

    Canst thou see, man?

    Gently do we try humour and reason,

    whilst thy Blunderbuss fires in the night

    forcing good people to cover while wincing at your noise.

    Begone, won't ye,

    surely there be new fields of discovery

    thou might plough rough

    as we attempt a little fine.

  6. Guest_ | | #27

    *
    joe,
    give to 'em cuz! they are all assholes, not profeshunals like us!
    Say, did Aunty Olga give you a new set of Craypas too? I really like the blue, but reds nice to.

    "Whenever therefore people take notice of an asshole like joe, it is clear that his verbal diarrhoea has slid into their minds by means of the internet"

    Playtoo

    1. Guest_ | | #28

      * andrew,

      It doesn't matter at this point what you do the point is well made, you're still just a jerk. Nothing more, nothing less. Stupidity is your only strong point. Go f*ck yourself.

      As my cousin Vinny said; "I'm through with this one"

      Joseph FuscoView Image© 1999."Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth." Socrates

  7. david_sorg | | #29

    *
    Joe,

    I think most people know that Andrew is not any of the 'guest users' here; wrangle with him as you may, he has never been less than gracious to you or anyone else that I know of. Your strong statements, right or wrong, create an easy target for others.

  8. Guest_ | | #30

    *

    david,

    Obviously, you under estimate the depth of his (Andrew) depravity.

    So, you think he has never been anything less then gracious to me? You might want to read a bit deeper, before you make that statement.

    Joseph Fusco

    View Image
    © 1999.

    "It is better to be feared. . . Then loved!"

    Machiavelli

    1. Guest_ | | #31

      *Well, I'll take depraved as a compliment, kind of like "diabolical"...Anyway, Joe, these other voices are NOT mine. Honest. Doesn't mean I don't chuckle at some of them. Poetry? Here? Just shrug it off.

  9. Guest_ | | #32

    *

    andrew douglass (barrister),

    Would you care to try and refute my statement that this is a useless string of gibberish? Please provide your answer in pure numbers only, words are irrelevant to prove or disprove the point. That should be easy for one with vast mathematical resources as yourself.

    andrew d.:

    "Another solution: The eave angle produced by two widths of crown is the arccosine of the rake crown width divided by the eave crown width."

    Joseph Fusco

    View Image

    "Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth."

    Socrates

    1. Guest_ | | #1

      *...yawn...

      1. Guest_ | | #2

        *

        Now isn't that a surprise. . . Better yet, maybe you'd like to give it a try. . .

        Joseph Fusco View Image

        1. Guest_ | | #3

          *Ever wonder if Joe is a creation of Sysop Ruth, just trying to get everybody to brawl?

          1. Guest_ | | #4

            *Is Joe circling? You know, ie, the sharks are circling.

          2. Guest_ | | #5

            *I vote useless string of jibberish.Anyone care to refute this statement?"The angle of the dangle is equal to the heat of the meat times the torque of the pork."That should keep you busy for awhile joe. I hope this post finally gets me into the breaktime column in fhb.Tom

          3. Guest_ | | #6

            *Tommy,I always thought the angle of the dangle was equal to two times the heat of the meat sqx the cos *% @#three pie Times the torque of the pork.Maybe Andrew can clairfiy that for us if he doesn't want to respond to Joe.Vince

          4. Guest_ | | #7

            *I am pretty sure Joe is quoting a previous post by andrew and challenging him to make sense of it. I sure the hell can't.Pete DraganicAnd hey Ryan, whats with the Ruth Sysop conspiracy theories?

          5. Guest_ | | #8

            *Hey,I'm only responsible for one of the conspiracy theories.

          6. James_d'Andie | | #9

            *b "Oh lord, here comes Fusco; -hand me that hemlock, will you, Plato?"b Socrates "this is a useless string of gibberish?" ...Now I'd say that all the numbers and letters and emblazoned icons that surround the words of Joe might be called a useless string of gibberish. So many ways to chat, so little to say...

          7. Guest_ | | #10

            *Joe, You've posted the same thing under three different threads...thus the "yawn". You might want to try emailing him if you're that desperate for a response. Good luck...

          8. Guest_ | | #11

            *Vincent, I thought you had to figure the mass of the ass in there somewhere, but I could be wrong ; ] Chuck

          9. Guest_ | | #12

            *OK, now that enough unsuspecting fools have subscribed to this thread...A problem i've had with carpentry is that there are a few too many rules of thumb, trial-and-error, etc. that either waste wood or lead folks into practices that are actually dangerous. Most people here are pretty serious about their work and are quick to criticize someone justifying their practices by saying "But that's the way I've always done it." Crown molding retains an especially remote mystique it doesn't deserve.Bill's question was, how do I cut crown mouldings of different widths on the rake and eave so that they match up? He was on the right track by taking all the relevant measurements; all he needed was a formula to convert them into saw settings. A simple question, and there is a simple answer.The Facts: Bill has a 44° rake (probably once intended to be 12/12), 4-1/4” rake crown, 3-5/8” eave crown, and the crown is sprung 37-38°. The crown turns a roughly 90° corner of the building.Bill’s Empirical Solution: 6° miter on rake crown, 31.75° on eave; 47° bevels on both. The fit was very good but not perfect.The Fast Trig Solution: First in brief, then in more detail:(1) both bevels = corner angle / 2 = 45°(2) (i) eave miter = arccos( eave trim / rake trim ) = arccos( 3.625 / 4.25 ) = 31.5°. (ii) rake miter = spring angle - eave miter = 38 - 31.5 = 6.5° (or 5.5° if the spring is 37°)That's it.A bit more detail (sorry, no time for pictures or a proof today):(1) Both bevels must equal each other and add up to the corner angle, just as with ceiling crown. That Bill found the best fit at 94° total is, as Joe noted, probably because it's just physically easier to close up the joint if you overcut. Also, the corner may be more than 90°, and/or the crown slightly irregular.(2) The real trick is the miter angle. The correct formula for the angle on the eave trim is:x = arccos( eave trim / rake trim )>(If you're rusty, the arccosine is just a way of working backwards from the ratio of a side of the triangle adjacent to an unknown angle to the triangle's hypoteneuse to find the angle. So arccos( 1 / sqrt(2) ) gets you 45°, for example.)Here, x = arccos( 3.625 / 4.25 ) = 31.466976293° (fine, 31.5° for those of you with cheap saws) :)Because the eave crown is sprung 38°, we haven't made it around the corner yet -- only 31.5°. So to complement the eave trim cut, cut the rake 38 - 31.5 or 6.5°.Done. I've addressed Bill's question as best I can.Now, as for Joe's question/challenge, what he quotes is just one of several corollaries to this thinking that I spun out the other day, albeit not stated clearly enough for him ("useless ... gibberish"):>"Another solution: The eave angle produced by two widths of crown is the arccosine of the rake crown width divided by the eave crown width."I was thinking of the eave crown width being bigger than the rake -- here it's the other way around so we flip the division operation:x = arccos ( eave trim / rake trim ) = arccos( 3.625 / 4.25 ) = 31.466976293°Déja vu? So what I meant was the eave miter angle. Mea culpa.Hope this helps. Pondering this has sure helped me understand crown better. Hey, it's my lawyer side to ponder things to find the essence (translation: cut through the BS). It's part of why I like law so much, and will never be a decent production carpenter.-- andrew d, Esq.

          10. Guest_ | | #13

            *Last thought:Over in the monster parent thread, Charlie Renfro writes: There is an article in "Fine Homebuilding On Frame Carpentry"@1990 that also appeared in FHB August 1987 by Scott McBride that dwells on this subject.He also gives a couple of ways to do it,but as Bill has confirmed none perfect.He mentions the same way that Brisketbean offered but explains while fine for low pitched roofs it flattens out on steeper roofs contrary to its (crown) original intent.He also advises the different sizes to attempt a match.There is also a brief dicussion on how to develop the rake crown profile from that at the eaves.My own opinion of this is it looks good from here, nail it.I agree with Charlie the most on the last sentence -- a talented graphic artist taught me this rule as, "If it looks right, it IS right." You may say duh, but it's easy to forget with all these stupid numbers.Also, as is implicit in the math, these calculations break down with extreme pitches and such -- at least they'll give you numbers so ridiculous, like calling for 1/8" wide crown, that just ain't gonna work aesthetically.Again, "If it looks right, it IS right." Repeat.

          11. Guest_ | | #14

            *Mongo,

            If this was so boring to you, you might have used your own advice and emailed me to tell me your concerns. . .

            Luck is not a factor.

            Joseph FuscoView Image"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth." Socrates

          12. Guest_ | | #15

            *barrister,

            Like I said, you supply such good material.

            Joseph FuscoView Image"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth." Socrates

          13. Guest_ | | #16

            *barrister,

            I'm not one for lengthy posts but, I'm going to make an exception here.

            In the past year or so from coming here and being in close quarters with the likes of you and Ken Drake, the quote from Socrates has never been clearer to me. I'm now sure it was solely intended for lawyers and politicians of his day. It's as true today as it was then. This quote doesn't apply to Ed(dot) Williams simply because he brings new meaning to the word imbecile. You have to have some intelligence to deceive, he as none what so ever. On the other hand, you two guys are well practiced in this most lewd art form. . .

            Make no mistake, barrister, I have but one agenda, to expose you for what I believe you truly are. A self centered, self serving egotistical pontificating diabolical demagogue. If one so chooses, simply a jerk! You might believe that be virtue of a quality education that you might be better then the "average" or "common" man, with your slick talk and a perpetuity to dish out large quantities of subterfuge(bullshit). Well, I am at best, an average man and I find nothing engaging about the stratagem you employ. . . You and your stratagem are not even interesting. . . So far your best attribute is your well suited for sport. Of which I shall take full advantage of. . . That being stated. . . on to your reply.

            As usual you insult someone but this time you insult everyone in the thread.barrister:"OK, now that enough unsuspecting fools have subscribed to this thread...". I just usually insult you.

            Anyone who was run crown moulding large and small in any real quantity will know that only an idiot would make this statement or better yet, someone with very little experience doing it.barrister:"A problem I've had with carpentry is that there are a few too many rules of thumb, trial-and-error,etc. that either waste wood or lead folks into practices that are actually dangerous. Most people hereare pretty serious about their work and are quick to criticize someone justifying their practices bysaying "But that's the way i've always done it." Crown molding retains an especially remote mystiqueit doesn't deserve."I have a strong opinion about the group you fall into. . .

            As always with good demagogic form you attempt to minimize the strong points of an argument and enhance your own weak points. That is just what lawyers do and I will hold it against you.barrister:"The Facts: Bill has a 44° rake (probably once intended to be 12/12), 4-1/4” rake crown, 3-5/8”eave crown, and the crown is sprung 37-38°. The crown turns a roughly 90° corner of the building."The use of the words "probably" and "roughly" are an attempt to widen the scope of the argument making any answer you supply that's even close acceptable. Also giving an approximation (37-38°)for the eave crown accomplishes the same.barrister:"Bill’s Empirical Solution: 6° miter on rake crown, 31.75° on eave; 47° bevels on both. The fit was very good but not perfect."After rereading Bill's posts, after he return to the original numbers 6° & 31.75°, he said the "joint looked good". Now considering that the night before he liked the joint at different numbers but, the next day he "looked at it with a more critical eye" and decided to change it. Good must mean just that GOOD. I didn't not read anywhere we're he said "Very Good" or "NOT PERFECT". You just simply added it to try and improve your poor position and make light of the fact that the EXACT numbers given worked well. Why you did this is quite obvious. . . Your math is so poor you need all the help you can get.On to the gibberish you call the "The Fast Trig Solution:"barrister:"The Fast Trig Solution: First in brief, then in more detail:

            (1) both bevels = corner angle / 2 = 45°

            (2) (i) eave miter = arccos( eave trim / rake trim ) = arccos( 3.625 / 4.25 ) = 31.5°.

                 (ii) rake miter = spring angle - eave miter = 38 - 31.5 = 6.5° (or 5.5° if the spring is 37°)

            That's it.That's it alright but, what it is exactly only the barrister knows. Now we see why the barrister went through all the trouble to have us accept "close". Simply because his math and formulas are only close. As anyone involved in mathematics knows, a formula (algorithm) is only useful if it predictions are accurate. Not close or work only sometimes. Regardless, this gibberish is DIFFERENT then the original gibberish. Since it's different, it only means that this set of gibberish can't possible explain the first set of gibberish. I'll take it apart anyway. . .Item (1) is missing a WHOLE term. This formula works only for a SPECIFIC TYPE. I'm not going to tell the barrister what it is but, anyone who what's to know can email.Item (2) i assumes you ALREADY KNOW the width of the moulding. . . And upon knowing this it still produces the wrong angle. What is one to do if you DON'T KNOW THE WIDTH TO START WITH? Doesn't sound to good for me.I sure as hell know this works a WHOLE lot BETTER! Step 1 is to use the formula: [ (cos((angle of eave crown) (-) (angle of roof slope))) * (eave crown width) ].I hate to put formulas up but, sometimes its the only way to describe the thought.If you plug in the numbers that we have the equation looks like this:[ (cos((38) (-) (44))) * 3.625 ][ (cos (6)) * 3.625 ] sign is unimportant here. There is no need for negative numbers.[ (.99452) * 3.625 ][ 3.6051 ] This is the answer for step one. The importance of this first step is that it determines the proper width of the side opposite the hypothenuse of the rake crown. The crown is just a triangle with three sides. The moulding itself is the hypothenuse of this triangle. The distance the moulding projects from the wall (or vertical plane) is one leg or the adjacent side. The final or opposite side is the distance from where the moulding touches the wall (or vertical plane) to where it would touch the ceiling (or horizontal plane).Step 2:Knowing that the opposite side of the rake crown moulding needs to be 3.6051 or approx 3-39/64" to able to match up with the eave, we now can use the projection distance as the second leg in the rake crown. This is NOT necessary but, it will ensure that the bevel angles on both pieces of moulding, rake and eave are 45 degrees.Item (2) ii Gives the Wrong angle! Why use it?? For someone clamoring about simplicity, why not simply use the roof angle minus the eave wall angle! And heres an added bounus. . . IT GIVES THE RIGHT ANSWER!!!barrister:"Here, x = arccos( 3.625 / 4.25 ) = 31.466976293° (fine, 31.5° for those of you with cheap saws) :)" That might be true. . .but the answer is wrong. The correct angle for the rake moulding is 31.65 degrees.I hope I've make my opinions very clear in regards to you and this matter.

            Joseph FuscoView Image"Whenever, therefore, people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblance's to that truth." Socrates

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Custom Built-in Cabinets Made Easy

A standardized approach, quick-to-install hardware, and a simplified design make building custom casework cost-effective.

Featured Video

Micro-Adjust Deck-Baluster Spacing for an Eye-Deceiving Layout

No math, no measuring—just a simple jig made from an elastic band is all you need to lay out a good-looking deck railing.

Related Stories

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

Fine Homebuilding

© 2024 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.