Ben called me over to discuss this dilema. I knew it was serious when he was standing their scratching his head. (I staged that part). Actually, I knew it was serious when he asked me to come and discuss it. HE NEVER WANTS ME TO COME OVER AND DISCUSS ANYTHING WITH HIM!
This is a good lesson for all your conventional rafter framers. Yall think that trusses are easy….well they would be if they are always right…but we still have to decipher the engineers thinking patterns and that sometimes isn’t a piece of cake like you think it is.
The mistake here is easy to spot. It isn’t our mistake…but we’ll have to deal with it.
Can you spot the mistake?
I posted the original picture and the smaller version for the dial ups.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information…don’t listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Replies
The second truss in front of you is not tall enough. Hey, blue, what is the reward scheme for this game of 'pin the tail on the donkey'?
I agree with Pierre. Rafter height is wrong and throws your ridge line off as well.
I guess the manufacturer was using his speed square instead of his framing square when he attempted to align that truss in his jig setting. ha! ha!
Davo
Sorry Davo...the words "I agree with Pierre1" did you in!
I am going to have to award at least one milkbone for that humorous speed square comment though. Please deny that you received anything though if the milkbone police question you...
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Sorry for forgetting the milkbone schedule Pierre1!
I've still got a fairly large stash of milkbones to offer as rewards for helping us figure out what to do next. Luckily, I traded in a Ferrari that I won on a sidewider/wormie bet in here and I did quite well on the deal getting a LOT of prized milkies...
Thats not me standing there, so I cant give you credit for your answer! That's Ben...I'm standing holding the camera and the trusses right in front of me are correct.
Sorry.
Next!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I agree with Pierre, the hip is not in line because the second truss is too short.
Bummer Bambam....don't be so quick to jump into the sack with Pierre1! His answer was disqualifed on a technicality, even though I know what he meant...but the rules for awarding milkbones are very strict....we just can't be giving them away indiscriminantly!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue,
I never use trusses but is this a common mistake?
What is that black 'pole' thingy poking out?I DIDN'T DO IT...THE BUCK DOES NOT STOP HERE.
That black pole it the tip of the boom and jib of our boom truck.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Ummm no Joe...that particular mistake isn't common. What is common though, is that mistakes occur on a fairly regular basis...some very minor and some extremely complex and hard to fix. I find it very helpful, for obvious reasons to find the errors early in the game, then we have time for the proper trusses to be reshipped. On that small house, we did in fact have three trusses re-shipped but that particular fix had to be done on the fly.
On complex houses, I always made it a point to study every truss shipped, and the truss layout plan until I was fully understanding every truss in the package. Sometimes that is no easy feat. The record for me studying was 12 hours. That's a full day and a half, before I pounded the first nail. That particular roof system was so complex, along with the complex wall heights and after erection framing that I warned the builder that if he built the same house as a model, he'd lose all his framers. I told him that I wouldn't frame that house again, at any price.
He didn't listen and he had a complete turnover of framers and that particular sub fizzled for years compared to his previous work. I never did frame that model again....
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Never seen anybody do caps quite liike that.
Several possibilities come to mind here.
1. The step-down caps were figured wrong.
2. The caps are in the wrong place, and some of them go in another place on the house.
3. The trusses are off layout for some reason.
Not really enough info to know without reviewing the whole job.
Okay Boss...you get some milkbones!
I can tell you've solved some truss problems.
The step down caps (they are called piggies as in piggy backed) are incorrect but they don't go anywhere else in the house.
The truss layout is wrong for some reason. I'll explain the reasons in the nxt post where the trusses have been numbered by a kind soul seeking a free supply of milkbones too!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
"I can tell you've solved some truss problems."
Actually, I've CAUSED plenty of trusss problems. (-:
Step down caps are particularly prone to being messed up, as they're generally done more or less by hand. So it's pretty easy to make a mistake on them.
My Inner Child Can Beat Up Your Inner Child
What is the on center measurement between trusses supposed to be. It may be an optical delusion but I counted 4 different spacings.
Additionally, it's clear that whoever used a man square to create that ridge jog didn't know how to read the tables.
Golden, you have a good eye!
Actually though, the truss spacing isn't off as much as you are thinking and a lot of what you are thinking is indeed an optical illusion.
First let me explain that the stepped up trusses (#1 and #2) are laced about eight foot down and semi floating. They haven't been pulled into their exact final resting place. I think span 1 is about 26" but would be pullled tight to the layon assembly and be correct. Span 2 is a 12" oc span. This span was created because of the different ceiling and wall configuration below. Span two is in the master suite and span three is in the foyer/ great room with wildly varying design and wall heights. Span 3 and 4 are basically the same truss as two with the exception of the piggy design.
the problem occured when they created the piggy heights and forgot about the 12" center. The first piggy is 10" high. It is correct. The next piggy is on a 24" layout. Since this roof is a 10/12 most of us would add 20" for a total height of 30". Weeeellllll, they simply forgot that the first piggy was part of the calculations. Instead of 30", they gave us a 20" piggy.
While I was discussing the "problem" with Ben, Frank came over and called the truss company for the fix. I only found out today what the solution is. Ben and I agreed that there was two very easy fixes. We could shift the small piggy's 12" and they would work, or we could build them up with a 10" filler. The truss company told us to add the 10" filler and they's supply engineering docs that will be required to pass rough frame inspection.
Ben also mentioned that he had to pull the main rack of trusses toward the hip set. He hooked the skytrak on them and pulled them 2". Evidently the guys used a poor installation technique and they got their layout off....which is very easy to do with stepped trusses if you're a rookie. I have some very specific methods to insure that my layout remains true, but the guys often manage to "forget" what us old guys teach them. Then, they have to resort to hooking skytraks to the rack and realign the mess.
You win some milkbones too, but will have to forfeit half of them for that manly square slander.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.......
Shavey, it ain't close today...it's perfect and it's done!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Atta boy i knew ya could do it.....
That's easy, Blue. The laydown sleeper truss edge is missing the hip line.
Easy to fix with some scabs when they are small like that. When they are oversized, you have to start slicing, or throw the darn thing off the roof, and stick on all scabs.
Actually Gene, the truss company told us to raise the piggys with fillers. We got that done already.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Ain't that what you call a serpentine ridge?
Yeah, musta read that summwherze
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
Rw....if it is a serpentine ridge...we gotta charge more for those things! It sounds expensive..doesn't it?
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
It's all the rage anymore since Paris & Nikki started talking about it over at JLC
HA
Told ya I knew all about framing"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain