Replies

1. 
   DANL | Apr 12, 2005 12:34am | #1

   Yeah, if your shellac is new, denatured alcohol will "reamalgamate" the finish, but where it is worn, you obviously don't have any finish left to repair. I think I'd go with the suggestion posted to another shellac question and that is to clean it with mineral spirits, then brush with alcohol to repair whats there, then brush new on in the worn spots. If the shellac is "dewaxed" shellac, I believe that polyurethane will stick to it. I'm also more sure that the old fashioned varnish will.

   But if you remove it all, which you may need to do since it is worn and dirty, then you can basically start over with anything, especially poly. I've found lacquer thinner to be pretty good at removing the grime under and around handles, and it will remove shellac and seems to dry slower than alcohol.

2. 
   jazzdogg | Apr 12, 2005 01:27am | #2

   Just about any finish can be applied over cured dewaxed shellac.

    

   -Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

1. 
   zendo | Apr 12, 2005 02:20am | #3

   Shellac is an amazing material and is commonly used as a tannin blocker for paint.  It creates a great barrier that the tannin from the wood can not seep through. 

   Painters love it because the solvent is alcohol, so it dries in about 15 minutes as opposed to oil or water stain blockers.

   Shellac can be used between any layer of paint.  Water-based, oil and all the way to the top coat.  It is not very resistant to water, so in a kitchen it would be best to switch to another product.  Poly, or Lacquer would be better solutions.

   -zen

    

3. 
   goldhiller | Apr 12, 2005 06:18am | #4

   Concerning dirty areas.......You may have to use more than one "cleaner" for the dirty wood areas. Basically, it depends upon just what comprises the dirt and what else may have been embedded into that wood to make it dirty.

   For instance, solvents like lac thinner, mineral spirits, etc. can remove contaminates x, y and z, but will be ineffective against contaminates that are water soluble only.

   I'd be inclined to first clean those areas with water and some detergent or Mr.Clean, using a soft bristled toothbrush. The trick here is not to saturate the wood too much and to rinse well with clear water and then get the wood dry. Coax it along with a hair dryer, but don't get it too hot.

   Then follow up behind that with a solvent (or solvents) like acetone, naphtha, mineral spirits or even lac thinner on a soft cloth. ( Don't forget to turn that cloth as the objective here isn't to spread the contaminates around, but to remove them) IME, lac thinner doesn't dissolve shellac as readily as denatured alcohol
   does. Takes a bit longer (that's why it isn't used as a carrier solvent for shellac)and so is safe to use as a cleaner provided your technique is right. If you work along rather quickly, you should be able to pull this off without damaging the remaining shellac. And since lac thinner is comprised of about four different solvents, it'll be capable of removing more various types of crud than a singular type of solvent like naphtha, acetone or mineral spirits. If you have the heebie-jeebies about doing this, then stick to using some of the other solvents instead (one at a time). Avoid using denatured alcohol unless your intention is to remove the shellac.

   When you finish with the cleaning, you may have to do a little sanding with some 220 - 320 by hand to take down any raised wood fibers that may have occurred when cleaning with the water. If you don't have to sand very much (this is why you need to control how wet that wood was allowed to get when cleaning), you won't likely remove the patina in the wood and so the base color should still match the surrounding areas pretty well.

   As already pointed out, dewaxed shellac provides a good base for most any finish, but oil-based polys in particular, can have problems bonding to a wax-bearing shellac. I know guys who have gotten away with it, but it's a dubious procedure at best. If the poly fails to bond well, it'll peel…..sooner or later.

   Nitrocellulose lacquer (like Deft) will also have a hard time bonding to a wax-bearing shellac and nitro is a poor choice of finish for a kitchen also. Maybe a bit better than shellac, but not much.

   Whether or not you want to risk a bond of poly to what may well be a wax-bearing shellac is your call. You'd at least want to scuff sand the entire surface with some 320 first. A better call might be to clean your surfaces and then apply a nice uniform coat of Zinnser's Seal Coat over the top and then the finish of your choice. If you don't over work the surface (presuming brush application), hopefully you wouldn't bring much if any of the wax-bearing shellac to the surface where it could again interfere with adhesion of subsequent
   finishes.

   The bestest, safest call is to remove all of the current finish and then proceed to finish with your poly.

   If anyone has used Pledge or similar silicone-bearing furniture polishes/cleaners on these cabs, you could be in for more trouble. It'll be best if you can ascertain this before you do much of anything at all and then post back if contaminated. Procedures to
   renewing the finish on these cabs will be greatly altered if silicone is present.

   If anyone has ever paste waxed these cabs, figure on cleaning all
   the surfaces thoroughly and several times with mineral spirits before proceeding with any attempts at applying additional coats of finish.

   I see now that you have water stains. Ugh. If they are indeed water stains, I'm betting you'll have to sand thru those to remove them. There goes the uniform patina base in those areas and you could very well face some tricky staining/recoloration or "re-patina" procedures to match back in with the rest of the wood without sanding the all of the cabs.

   What wood species are these cabinets made of? Stained or natural?

   Any chance of posting pics?

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 4/11/2005 11:21 pm ET by GOLDHILLER

1. 
   cdbeardie | Apr 12, 2005 06:20pm | #5

   Thanks, all of you who posted, for your help!! I will print this out and take it up to the cabin and see what I can do with it. Basically, the cabinetry is still very beautiful and in good shape, so I imagine I will be successful if I'm patient and careful. Again, many thanks to all who posted!!

1. 
   goldhiller | Apr 12, 2005 07:05pm | #6

   One more thing. If you intend to apply your finish with a brush..........don't cheap out on that. Go to a pro paint store (like SW) and buy the best brush they have for the finish you intend to apply. For shellac or OB poly, this would be a natural bristle brush. Just tell them what you intend to apply and they'll guide you to the right brush for your purposes.Then treat that brush respectfully. Clean it well and often. Mid-stream in the job if necessary. Get a brush and roller spinner if you don't already own one. You won't be sorry you spent the money.Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

1. 
   IMERC | Apr 13, 2005 07:50am | #7

   yur recommendaions worked on those cabs...

   thanks dude...

   Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

   WOW!!!   What a Ride!

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