Keep in mind, because of my ego, I want to assure you that I could probably figure this out on my own. It is also clear that it would probably fail twice before I get it right. So, I will open my ears and listen for others advice.
Here is my problem: I just dug a stock tank for the kids to swim in, (couldnt afford a pool). The bank of this stock tank sits at, I would say,….mmmmaybe a 4 in 12 pitch.
I want to insert a telephone pole in the bank, (Above water level) at angle of maybe…mmmm 3 in 12. Also, not perpendicular to the bank maybe mmmmm….60 degrees.
Ok, ..I am not nuts. This pole will be a point for a rope swing. I have a 28 foot telephone pole that needs to be buried about 6 feet into the bank. I am sure kids will climb it as welll as swing off the rope. Climbing would be safe as well because if they fall they fall into the water.
So my problem is getting this thing set in there, hopefully on the first try. BEFORE IT RAINS!!! A backhoe seems to be the easiest. Just trench out what I need and backfill and pack it.
If you have a hard to envisioning what I am talkiing about..think of a Q
The O part would be the water level. Any suggestions would be helpful..It never rains in Wichita Falls Tx so we have time.
thanks
Replies
yur method sounds good to me...
but....
you got 22 feet of cantilever...
ya gotta shorten that a might or add stays...
ya might get away with buring a third of that pole at a minimum with a larger than humongouse rock to hold the buried end in the ground...
or add a fulcrum above the half point....
BTW is this pole creosoted????
plant a dogwood or a live oak and prune it so that a limb grows over yur tank...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I might just get a 32 footer...its a dollar a foot which is cheap. The expense is gonna be the install.
Dont you think that 6-7 foot of bury is enough? I am in all clay country. Don't you think that the girth of a telephone pole would be enough to support all these forces.
Tell me this....can you think of any other way to get a swing. this is more difficult but the swing area is free and clear of obstructions. Any braces could lead to injuries.
The easy route would be to stick a pole straight up, about 15 feet from the shore and tie a rope to the top. Just tell the kids to be careful.
Could we call that an "aggie swing". My apologies to aggies everywhere.
I might just get a 32 footer...its a dollar a foot which is cheap. The expense is gonna be the install.
build an over the swimmin' hole trestle...
high rise mini-deck / platform on the outside of the tank to launch from...
shorter poles....
Don't you think that 6-7 foot of bury is enough?
not a chance ... rule of the thumb says 1/3... 1/3rd outta the ground... 2/3rds in the ground in a cantilever application...
I am in all clay country. Don't you think that the girth of a telephone pole would be enough to support all these forces...
so what is the girth... cantilevered forces are a hole bunch different than lateral.. the cantilever has a lever fulcrum to work aqgainst ya...
Tell me this....can you think of any other way to get a swing. this is more difficult but the swing area is free and clear of obstructions. Any braces could lead to injuries....
trestle it... Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Thanks everyone..that is why I always share my dilemmas with FHB. There was an irratiating voice inmy head saying " You are about to f%#* up." I did have a sneaking suspicion about the pole coming up and landing on a child. Clay turns to gravy when it is wet, (its an odd material isnt it...hard as concrete when dry, but just add water and you have a toally different form).
I am leaning more toward a trestle. Having a fresh tank dug with no water in it poses such a GREAT opportunity to really do a GOOD swing. Honestly, to me the real dilema is the angles on the bank. How does one bore into the side of a 4/12 pitched bank, while boring at an angle itself?
here are some pics so everyone can help me even more :) If I keep replying to everyone eventually yall might get together and come dig it for me,...do you like beer and BBQ?
the post hole diggers are the angle I was shooting for. If you can see the white stripe (dashed, about 3 feet under the Post hole diggers) , that is the water level. I dont want the poles in the water but it is looking like that is the only way.
Thanks for posting the pictures. I wasn't quite sure what a stock tank is. Still unsure of the name but I get what you are making.It is HUGE! Where you gonna get the water to fill it and how much is it going to cost? How about how long is it going to take to fill? Months? Years?What keeps the water from becoming stagnant or just soaking into the ground?As for the swing thing - think along the lines of trapeze design. Pretty cool whatever you decide.FThere he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
this is small by normal standards. The depth seems to keep the evaporation down and the red clay bottom acts as a clay pot. I sit at the bottom (almost bottom) of about 8 acres. I have been assured that a good rain will fill it with no problem. Now, the problem lies with the rain. Wichita Falls has an old indian curse. Huge thunderstorms work their way right for us, warnings go out, family members call each other and issue thier own warnings and such. Within 10 miles of WF the super cell splits, averts WF and rejoins 10 miles outside of WF. Residents have to enjoy newspaper articles and news reports of heavy rains recordings east of WF...it is truly amazing. It will rain....someday. My 10 year old daughters may be moved out of the house and owning thier own pool by the time they can use this swing,..but I am RESOLUTE!
Back to the swing...all suggestions are welcome!
Good pics. Hope your contractor walked dolomite or good clay into the bottom to seal it.
IMHO, you're gonna need a supply of water to keep it filled, like say from a windmill and a well. I've seen tanks that size dry up in 2 months if the wind is right and the temp is high enough.
Another question: Why didn't you build a good tornader shelter instead of a tank? Looks like there's nothing between you and the North Pole but a "bob war fence..."
Frankie -
You have water moccasins around there? I swam in a few stock tanks (ok, ponds) when I was a kid in MO and our parents always worried about snakes. We only saw a few, but they were there. One of the local creeks was really infested with them.
I hope three times is a charm... lost the othe two posts to cyberspace... arrrrrggggghhhhhh..........
you said tank not pond... different critters here... now this can be way cooler...
A wide trestle with bipoded legs set out in the water and a floating dock... rope off the center..
use the 1/3rd wall and give yerself the benefit of the doubt and do the cantilever with a bipod to help hold it up... add the floating dock... rope long enough to get the job done...
do ya suppose ya can convince the nieghbors that that is actually yur bazillion MM motar in camo.... paint "BIG MOE" on the side and aim it towards political ville....
BTW the pole setting trucks can bore angles... do you suppose ya could entice them to help out... ahh hell bribery works.. got beer and BBQ ya say...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
No, 6 to 7 feet is not enough.Since you are talking angle, 6 to 7 feet of the pole won't even be -that- deep. That sucker is going to come right up out of there all on it's own without any help from kids swinging on the end.I am on clay as well. The local utilities demanded I set a 28 foot pole 9 to 10 feet deep, and that was straight up, and just to set the meter box on. When set, it had to have gravel packed solidly in 6 inch lifts, to fill the hole around it. No just dumping the dirt back in there.Since you are in clay, I would suggest you dig your trench at least 10 feet deep. Put a rock under the pole, near the tank end of the pole. This is to keep the pole from working it's way down into the clay mud below. Then as Imerc suggested, a big old rock on top of the bottom end of the pole. To keep it from tilting up from all the playage. (Yeah, -sure- it's only going to be the kids, and only one at a time...). Then fill with packed gravel the rest of the way.
We spend zillions on smart bombs.....how about spending zillions on creating smart kids?
~jjwalters
packed gravel will help with water issues but work against him in the keepin' it solid in the ground problem...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
If the gravel were tight packed in 6 inch lifts, it will be no more problem than if he just dumped the clay back in the hole.We're talking 10 to 12 feet of tight packed gravel above the end of this thing. Not just an easily loosened 3 or 4 feet. You pack that much, as tight as you can get it, in 6 inch lifts, and for the last few feet down there, it is going to remain as solid as concrete.And he'd have the help with the water issues to boot... We spend zillions on smart bombs.....how about spending zillions on creating smart kids?
~jjwalters
Edited 4/15/2006 8:34 pm by Luka
If the gravel were tight packed in 6 inch lifts, it will be no more problem than if he just dumped the clay back in the hole
till the lever action of the pole drives the gravel in to the wet clay... (what happens to clay when you even get it damp) because the gravel let the water in to start with and the clay trapped it...
remember he was gonna trench a hole and lay the pole into it.. presto... loose clay to start with...
the water softens the clay and pole wallows in the hole pressing more rock / gravel into the clay allowing a progessively larger hole that allows in more water and allows more clay to soften and and the pole gets really really loose at this point and the cantilever gets an edge / upper hand and really gets to flopping in it's hole and breaks loose while a kid that is all by himself (not that one ever would) is swinging on it and the pole hits / lands on the kid as they both hit the water....... etc.. etc...
how do you get a pole ready for pulling... rock it back and forth after you wet the soil around it a bit... if it's packed in gravel... all the easier to get the water down along side it.... proven time honored method....
Trestle, gantry or a derrick with zero swing is probably his best bet.. then he can have stays that are out of the way and making for some seriously strong construction at the same time... Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
True.Very true.The clay is the weak link. I agree about the better options.
We spend zillions on smart bombs.....how about spending zillions on creating smart kids?
~jjwalters
Besides the cantilever weight factor in also, the force of the kids, climbing, rocking and above all swinging back and forth to get the "launch just right". Lots more moving at the unsupported end.
Think kids (any size) on a swing set and how it wants to rotate up, out of the ground.
bum
For your purpose, I would avoid a treated power pole.
And I would be inclined (no pun intended) to pour a good, solid concrete base footing with heavy steel brackets bolted through to support the base of the pole.
Then cantilever it, as someone else suggested, with cable backstays also well anchored.
Now, I grew up in a day and age when the neighbor kids and my brothers and I could do risky things and if we got hurt, we got hurt.
But today, there is the "attractive nuisance" thing to be concerned about. So if there is the likelihood that other-than-your-kids might use your pond and swing, especially without adult supervision, you might want to CYA with some careful design and make some roundabout inquiries about coverage by your HO liability insurance.
That said, I applaud you for being a parent who will convert a stock tank to create a swmming hole rather than shut the little buggers up with a new Gameboy or iPod.
I hope someone chimes in here with the right answer for you.
By the way, the utility Companies, at their service shop, usually have a whole dumpster full of really cool, heavy steel, galvanized rigging points used on poles, towers, substations and the like. If you can butter up one of the local linemen, you might be able to score some really good components for rigging up your pole safely and permanently.
I wonder if there was a "tie" cable from the top of a post to a point WAY back from the base would make it more stable. Or maybe 2 points at an angle away from each other to keep it from moving sideways.
Why are there interstates in Hawaii?
As has been pointed out, there is no way you can just bury 1/3 of anything and expect it to stay, especially in clay.
This is worth a little more planning, considering the intended use. Things weigh the same over water as they do over land; if the pole comes down on a kid swinging off it nobody's gonna be real happy about that.
Fortunately, you live in the nation's capital of "all things made out of drill stem and sucker rod," and if I had a dollar for every pickup truck with gin poles and a portable welder on the back from Iowa Park to Burkburnett I could probably buy fuel for a month. <G>
And you've got enough drill stem and sucker rod laying around there in backyards to solve the steel shortage. <G>
If you were to trade some carpentry for some welding, I bet you could get a pretty servicable gantry welded up with a dog-leg in the bottom that you could cast into concrete, kinda like an overturn footing. One thing I will say for North Texas (amongst the many good things I'll say) is you've got some good ol' boys there who know how to put some steel in the ground and make it stay.
The best politics is right action. -Mohandas K. Gandhi (1869-1948)
I have 2 thoughts to your problem. Both would provide the fun the kids crave, or the opportunity for nature to thin the herd a bit. ;-)[No harm actually intended.]
Can you put two poles in, anchored on opposite sides of the pond, and joined at the top to make an "A" over the water? That solves the issue of gravity and the "kids play" dropping the pole into the water on them. You still have to brace for the side to side forces at the banks, but that can be done with shorter poles on each side, buried and bolted to the main ones, forming a triangular base on each side.
If the pond is too large to accomplish the 1st suggestion, then plant 2 poles vertically on opposite sides with cable between running to the ground at each end. Picture the Golden Gate Bridge without a road deck. Again side forces taken up with poles or cable braces on the sides. The swing rope attached to the center of the span (just one, you don't want the little ones smacking together in the middle, remember the reference to thinning the herd). The pole can be placed far enough outside the bank to eliminate the possibility of swinging into it (herd thinning again), and while your at it use heavy cable. If you make a proper caged ladder up the side of one pole to a platform and attach another cable to the far side, 90 degrees to the swing cables. You've got a "Zip Line" to train your kids for "The Amazing Race". No swimming in thunder storms! Too much like lighting rods.
Have fun!
Lots of good suggestions. I'd say go ahead with the pole like you said, but drop another pole down into the pond for a brace, maybe 6' out, and strap it to the other.
Caution about creosote. I'm near Elgin and it gets just as hot here as it does there, and the stuff runs on the poles. It can burn you. Mommy wouldn't be happy.
Don't worry, it ain't gonna rain...