Replies

1. 
   Edgar76b | Aug 09, 2002 03:13pm | #1

   i am not sure I understand , which angle do you need? the returns are 45' the apron gets beveled to 10'.

   "I was born in the country, razed in the city, I'm a natural born shaker from my hips to the ground" 

1. 
   Inccar | Aug 09, 2002 03:29pm | #3

   I beveled 10' and did the return 45' (on the same cut) then I did the same for the return piece...and when I set them up the return was pitched down a few degrees......I'll double check the saw tonight, but everything else has been fine.

1. 
   andybuildz | Aug 09, 2002 03:36pm | #4

   Its defintly your saw....try doing a 45 deg.w a 45 deg return and see what it looks like on some scrap

   Be well

            Namaste'

                           AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

2. 
   PhillGiles | Aug 09, 2002 07:11pm | #5

   Did you swing the bevel to 10º the other way ? That creates a turn. And did you bevel BOTH sides of the return (the side against the wall has to be beveled too)? If not, then yes, the returns will droop. .

   Phill Giles

   The Unionville Woodwright

   Unionville, Ontario

   Edited 8/9/2002 12:14:27 PM ET by Phill Giles

3. 
   MisterT | Aug 09, 2002 11:49pm | #6

   If you angle the cut at 10 degrees the return WILL drop away from the stool at 10 degrees.

   No way around it except to then rip enough of the top edge to make the drop go away.

   You will also need to plane off (or sand off) the returns where they drop down on the bottom.

   It sounds to me as if you are trying to combine two incompatible methods off dealing with apron ends.

   Are you using a stock molding such as ranch or colonial?

   If you miter these it will "slant" back as the thinner edge returns to the wall.

   I have seen some hacks simply cut the ends at a slight angle (10 deg.?)

   You can do one or the other, but not both.

   I hope this clears things up for you.

   Happy trimming!

   Mr Trim

   Do not try this at home!

   I am a trained professional!

1. 
   KenHill3 | Aug 10, 2002 02:25am | #8

   T-Man :

   Right on- god, cutting apron at an angle like that, I just cringe when I see that. Maybe OK for diy, but for someone who calls themselves a carp? Yeah, that's why they're called hacks.

   Just shoot 'em and put 'em outta their misery!

   Ken Hill

1. 
   Edgar76b | Aug 10, 2002 03:26pm | #9

   I've never seen that before. what is the purpose?"I was born in the country, razed in the city, I'm a natural born shaker from my hips to the ground" 

2. 
   PhillGiles | Aug 10, 2002 07:30pm | #10

   You mean the 10º ? In order to save money, it has become a fairly common practice to merely miter/bevel the end of the aprons at roughly 10º to simulate a returns. Most sub-division homes in my part of the universe are done that way, even a lot of custom homes (because they hire a production crew to do the trim for a "price"). Most home-buyers don't seem to know the difference until they actually see a home with returns; and, the current fashions in curtains/drapes tend to cover up the evidence.

   In some more-expensive custom homes, they put a return, and then exaggerate the look by also slanting it in too (I forget, is this part of the Edwardian look ?). .

   Phill Giles

   The Unionville Woodwright

   Unionville, Ontario

3. 
   Edgar76b | Aug 10, 2002 08:48pm | #11

   Yeah they do that here too! The Idea of cutting the bevel, is to give it the look of a return. Someday i am going to have to get me one of them Compound chop saws. I Think they confuse the issue sometimes.

   "I was born in the country, razed in the city, I'm a natural born shaker from my hips to the ground" 

   Edited 8/10/2002 2:00:23 PM ET by Edgar76b

2. 
   Edgar76b | Aug 09, 2002 03:14pm | #2

   Make sure your chop saw is calibrated properly.

   "I was born in the country, razed in the city, I'm a natural born shaker from my hips to the ground" 

3. 
   Edgar76b | Aug 10, 2002 02:24am | #7

   I think i understand your problem now.

   Before you rip your 10' You need to cut your stock to length and  mitre the ends which will recieve your returns.

   then you can rip your apron.

   The returns cannot be taken from stock which has your 10' rip or the top of the piece , on the return will be funky.

   Just cut the returns,  and mark the neccecary angle. Then cut the 10 degrees with your coping saw, or even your utility knife to match the 10' angle of the apron.

   Glue it and nail it.

   Don't forget, ( unless your staining ) it's getting caulked anyway.

   If it is stain , here is you chance to show of your hand tools.

   "I was born in the country, razed in the city, I'm a natural born shaker from my hips to the ground" 

4. 
   Joe_Fusco | Aug 10, 2002 10:21pm | #12

   jdsmit,

   If you are actually going to put a return on the apron, there is no need to miter and bevel the end of the apron. Just a 45° miter at each end will do.

   To cut the return pieces for the apron, miter both ends of a piece of apron about a foot long and then cut each end at the end of the 45° cut.

   View Image

1. 
   Snort | Aug 11, 2002 05:56am | #13

   Ya know, Joe's got the ticket here...unless you're dealing with a flat trim for an apron, stuff that's profiled thinner at the jamb and cut with a 45? beveled return would look kinda like a 10? back cut...any other way is p i s s i n' in the wind...but I think T alredy said that...

   redundantly yours, a Beveled Beauty

1. 
   MisterT | Aug 11, 2002 05:52pm | #14

   Unless you are using molded casing, Let the end grain show!

   Cut with a SHARP blade.

   round over the edge.

   Gives a naturally beautiful effect.

   JMNSHO

   TDo not try this at home!

   I am a trained professional!

2. 
   archyII | Aug 12, 2002 02:12am | #15

   How do you keep the little pieces from flying all over.  Every time I do this (I'm a DIY) I end up cutting ten times the number of returns because most of the little pieces fly out from the saw or break.  I found that coping works better for me but does not look as good.

   Thanks if you can help with my simple mined question.

1. 
   Piffin | Aug 12, 2002 03:06am | #16

   Use a sharp blade and cut slow. Put a backer scrap behind the piece you are cutingExcellence is its own reward!

2. 
   Qtrmeg | Aug 12, 2002 05:28am | #17

   Don't cut your return all the way through, or if you have a bunch to do, set up a corral for the pieces to fly into.

   Umm, the original question was how to figure the angles for a compound miter? Simple enough, but why do I think cutting the apron @ 45 degrees is what needs to happen here?

3. 
   JeffBuck | Aug 12, 2002 06:56am | #18

   Ya buy one of the "Return Catcher Nets" that I've been saying I'm gonna invent! It'll look kinda like a hockey goal......and mount somewhere behind the saw....

   or.......cut another when ya can't find the one ya just cut. Sharp blade and a slow hand help.....also don't raise the blade till it stops spinning.....just like yer supposed to do all the time. Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......

1. 
   Qtrmeg | Aug 13, 2002 05:38am | #25

   Funny guy, if you have a zillion to cut you figure a way to catch them, it's just a template sort of thing. You might have a hard time if you try to do this with one of those yellow saws, I hear they are nasty.

1. 
   Snort | Aug 14, 2002 02:14am | #26

   Sometimes I have to cut a couple hundred returns for a house, first we cut the 45? left 'n right miters on a bunch of scraps(like a couple hundred). Then use a retun box, two pieces of plywood glued and judiciously pinned together in a pretty accurate (straight and square) L shape... affix it to your miterbox . mine's got a depth stop (you don't want to cut all the through the base part of this fixture, keep it one piece, you do cut thru the fence part) run the sawblade thru your jig. Take your mitered pieces for one side, line the back side of the miter up on the kerf, cut 'em and they float off to the side...you may have to adjust the box or your placement slightly to accomodate for blade wobble, and you'll want to make some strong and some light...then do the other side...I'll put up pics if anybody needs 'em

2. 
   JeffBuck | Aug 15, 2002 05:32am | #27

   it's late...got a headache....and now thoroughly confused! Pics would be cool....thanks, Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......

4. 
   PhillGiles | Aug 12, 2002 07:56am | #19

   Don't quite cut all the way through, then finish the cut with a utility knife..

   Phill Giles

   The Unionville Woodwright

   Unionville, Ontario

1. 
   luvmuskoka | Aug 13, 2002 03:47am | #24

   Crown apron with return.

   
5. 
   Redfly | Aug 12, 2002 09:42pm | #20

   You can also put a piece of tape from the piece to be cut off to the saw stop.  Cutting slow and having a sharp, fine toothed blade are important too.

6. 
   BossHog | Aug 12, 2002 09:55pm | #21

   I cut a short piece - Like maybe 4" long - And glue the miter together. Then I just cut the scrap off after a couple of hours.

   I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize.

1. 
   andybuildz | Aug 12, 2002 11:02pm | #22

   Boss,,,,,, I do exactly the same thing...I use hot glue so I dont have to wait though.

   Be well

           Namasta

                       AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

2. 
   archyII | Aug 13, 2002 02:46am | #23

   All great ideas.  I like the net catcher idea and I've used the cut an extra 10 since I will only be able to find 3 of them.

   Thanks