I’ve been told the price difference in a 3 tab that is usually cheaper than a laminated arch shingle per bundle isn’t actually worth the up front savings.
I’ve installed architectural roofs start to finish but not any 3 tabs to see the difference. So are the following points true making the above statement on price right or wrong?
1. The extra time/layout/and 3tabs being less forgiving than arch. eat into that savings.
2. The extra lamination and weight of the arch make them by nature a little longer lasting than a 3 tab of the same year rating.
3. Is or isn’t there a difference in what waste can be used from a bundle of 3 tabs for starter books,finishers,starter strip,ridge cap etc… and the difference of 26 vs. 22 shingles per bundle?
I’m also interested in what happens with a re-roof in 15-30yrs. from now. A nice flat 3tab if caught and re-covered just before they curl I can’t see any problem with re-roofing. With an arch. applied now will a roof over, down the road be possible and seat right atop them?
Thanks
Replies
arcs are run and gun, go on as fast as you can lay them, 3 tabs take some lay out but nothing much anymore after you have ran enough of them.
THe arcs may be laminted but only in certain areas, the whole shingle isnt laminated. so life is going to be pretty much the same.
the thing ive never liked about arcs is the fact they "break" or "crack" when you stomp them into a closed valley, one of those things that is always on my mind when i finish one. they dont form to a valley like 3n1's do.
Woods favorite carpenter
That is one of the reasons I do NOT like those closed, lapped, or woven valleys
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not a jb goes by it doesnt haunt my mind, almost to the point of changing, its just not common practice here and it wouldnt fly with most homeowners, im sure of it.
"that doesnt look like any of the ones ive seen" "they dont leak"Woods favorite carpenter
I always line behind a woven or lapped vally with metal and I&W if that's the look they want
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I've only installed 3-tabs, never really watched architecturals go on. With 3-tabs you will need to cut a starter piece for each course, up to maybe 6 or 8 courses. Last ones we installed had an 8-course pattern, each starter was 5-5/8" shorter than the one below it. Put one guy on a set of horses with a sheet of plywood to get the "books" cut and ready to go up on the roof. Make sure to leave enough bundles on the ground for cutting the books, otherwise you'll just be bringing some back down.
That is probably the slowest way of laying out for your three tabs.
That's why this question OP has no definite answer. there are half a dozen ways of running each kind of shingle according to personal preference and local standards
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Even at 33% higher price per square ( ran out of old car hoods, roll flooring, and scrap formica sheets <G>), actually did put archy on the last shed I built this spring. Shed has 99.999% probability of being razed within 40 years, 60% within 30, 10%within 20 according to actuarial table for yours truly. Almost cant beleive i was spendthrift enough to spend $300 for a shed roof, getting too old i guess...
Dont want to ever do'em again. Same for cabin except it may be there a lot longer (see FHB , Nov 1990, great moments) which I redid the roof on with archy last and this year, grandkids can redo in 40 if they want.
Do think the previous shed roof using old whiteboard steel sheet and car hoods will outlast the archy though <G>
Sounds like you are hidden under a shroud of myths.
For price comparison, go by the cost per SQUARE not the cost per bundle. The archies take 4-5 bundles per sq while three tabs take three bdl/sq.
Might take some folks more time to lay out for three tabs, but it takes more time/effort to cut the thicker archies. That is a wash
second Q - the archies do last longer by nature, but because they do not have the crotch line cutouts
3) Waste is a factor of the roof style and of the experience or attention span of the roofer more than the type of shingle.
I wouldn't let thoughts of re-roof in the future affect my choice now in any way.
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Also, there are few if any high quality 3 tabs made. They are all bargain shingles, so while technically they may be the same, in reality, I think not
By comparison to the archies, they might appear to be bargain shingles, but they were the industry standard for 30-40 years. Still the best value you can get in terms of $/foot/year of life
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Yeah, I'm thinking that there is probably, at the very least, a poorer selection of quality 3-tabs anymore, and likely the best quality is unavailable entirely. Warranties may still be the same, but mfgrs gamble that the house will change hands a few times before any quality issues appear. (Plus, of course, they rely on the fine print.)
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I had a meeting with a roofer of Friday to discuss roofing a building I'm just starting. We were discussing doing shingle takeoffs. He said he uses a higher waste factor for arch shingles. I don't know because I nearly always use 3 tab on my starter homes, so I'm posing this as a question:
Is there more waste with arch shingles?
there can be almost ZERO waste with dimensional shingles. If you use the layout reccomended on the wrapper their will be VERY little waste. working solo-----usuallu under 2%stephen
Does that 2% apply on roofs with hips and valleys or is that only apply to gabled houses?
blue,
for 21 years I have figured about 5% waste on all roofs-----I sarted that when I was using almost entirely 3 tabs--and the same shingle was also the starter and the ridge caps--with dimensional shingles- there are seperate accessories- starters, caps etc. so--once I remove caps and starters from the equation-- i am down under 2% or so hips add next to nothing to the waste factor----- valley do add a bit if they are closed cut--- if they are W valleys they don't add anymore than a hip. If I have employees or subs- the waste factor immediately balloons up to 7-10%- because they just don't care. I used to do some "levittown" style capes quite often.- I knew to the exact bundle how many shingles I needed---working solo I would have ONE open bundle at the end of the job- I needed 10-2/3 sq.
working solo-- i end up with one open bundle--anything else is returnable---with subs or employees i end up somehow with 3 or 4 or open bundles-- they don't care- but that is over $100 wasted same thing with drip edge--working solo I end up with 1 partial piece- and maybe a few extra whole pieces---with employees or subs--- some how I end up with 5 useless 4 ft. long pieces- they just don't care.
stephen
Edited 8/23/2009 9:12 am ET by Hazlett
OK - but isn't the same true for 3 tab? Don't know - just asking?
We just did a garage with archs this week. Actual dimensions required 16.4 squares. I actually used 16.7 squares. It was a straight roof with no hips or valleys.
With those conditions, you will definitely use less shingles with the archs.
Like I said first, it has more to do withthe skill and attitude of the roofer than the type of shingle.I'll do the same roof with less bundles than the average roofer 'cause I pay attention. A guygetting paid by the sqyare liad instead of square measred is no going to bust his buns working harder to take home less when he can easily waste more and take home more money
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And that is axactly I'm looking at going with a turn key roofer rather than the labor only guys I have been using.
I have laid both, and I think your roofer is full of it!