We’re planning to build our first custom home. Should we work with an architect first and then find a builder? Or should we find a builder and then find an architect?
Regardless, any words of wisdom on finding a good builder? We prefer someone local, not a large mass market tract home “custom” builder. We live in the Dallas, TX area.
Any comments would be appreciated.
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Replies
IMHO either or. But ask if they have any recommendations, as if they work well together the end result will be what you want. Any conflict between architect and builder will no doubt show up in the results.
None of the above.......We'll do it to you er I mean we'll do it for you!
Actually, first you decide on what you want exactly (that means have the architect design your dream home) and then you take the completed plans to several of the builders in your area and have them price the work.
Or maybe enough guys will go down to James' fest and build your house over the weekend, this fall.
Gabe
Hey, 2nd or maybe 3rd time agree with Gabe 100%, DIY, DIY....only way you'll be happy.
Even Architects hire an architect. If you want I house designed by a guy in pick-up truck with a 24 volt drill and a nailing gun......good luck. I'd rather take my chances in Las Vegas.
Don't get me wrong. If the most important is the builder, than ask if he knows of a good architect that he likes to work with. Once again, a team works better together and the builder will understand the wants and wishes bettter. Hence a better result.
I'm just saying to find a pair who work well with each other.
Weekendwarrior is absolutely right! I've found that architects (and designers) are as varied in their approach to a project as are builders. I've found some architects very accomodating to work with and who turn out a very clear set of plans, regardless of the complexity and others who are real hacks. The same can be said of builders. Find two of those entities who work well together and have good reps and you'll save money avoid a lot of stress.
I only have a handful of designs under my belt, so we'll put that out up front. Nonetheless, I've done some where they talked to me before the builder and some where they talked to the builder, who referred them to me. While I'm happy for the referral, I found the designer first, builder second easier from one perspective.
When you talk to a builder first, do you think he or she will give you a price guesstimate on the high side or the low side? Since the size and style and design features aren't known, any discussion of price will tend towards numbers that won't shock the client. Then I get the feature list and the other requirements and have the pleasure of saying the house will range between X and Y, which has always been higher than any number the client chooses to remember from the builder. So I'm the bearer of the bad news. Then I talk to the builder, who says, they said 3000 sf and now it's 4000, and 3 BR is now 4, and I was assuming x, y, z which are now q, r, and s. The builder never quoted a cost, and never said anything wrong, but in discussing what various past buildings might have cost, the client chose to hear only certain things.
On the design first, I could give a range based on what I've learned from some builders. Then when the builder gets to the estimate, the news for the client is hopefully good--both in that the structure can be constructed as designed, and that the budget tends toward the low end of the range.
Either works, but one is easier. I've found I _do_ like to know who the builder will be as I design, whenever possible, be/c then I can design with the builder's style in mind, as well as all the client's wishes. It has enhanced a coupla projects.
It seems to me that the design should be well under way before talking to any builders, because you have to know what you are going to be constructing. You don't want yours to be the first time your builder tried to build "this Kind" of house. Domes, log house, even timber frames require some fairly special skills and tools. Decide what, then find whoever can build it best! Opinions only of course. Remember to try and have fun.
Dan
Hey Cloud, I was brought up short by your comment about getting a more accurate cost estimate from an architect than a builder. Obviously depends on the particular architect and builder, but in my experience, the owners are usually shocked when they get the bids from the builders because the architect has given them a totally unrealistic idea of the construction cost for the beautiful house he (or she) has drawn. This, of course, contributes to the general impression that builders are all money-grubbing rip-off artists.
This, in my opinion, is a great reason for the builder to be involved early in the design process - to keep the expectations realistic as well as to make suggestions to help keep the costs down. Hire the architect first, then get the architect to help you pick a builder that you both feel comfortable with, and get him involved from the get-go!
whew
Let's blame this on my unclear wording. I totally agree with your last statement. And I tried to not imply that the designer is more accurate than the builder. Before there is a design, the builder doesn't have enough info about the complete house about which to give a complete estimate. So as the builder and client discuss costs, the client can have selective hearing.
Here's the specific I'm thinking of. I've heard the same thing from at least five different clients or prospects, so I've now come to expect it. I design domes. Costs are often split into the cost of the dome shell and the cost of finishing it out. For a plain vanilla dome, that's roughly 50-50. For a complete hot-fudge sundae one with nuts (it's lunchtime), that might be 20-80 (finishing costing more). Clients talk to a coupla builders who tell them the dome will cost $45/sf (for a 2000 sf) and they can't comment on finishing till they have a print. Now, the $45/sf is as good a guess for the shell price as any (maybe 40, maybe 50, depending on lots of factors). By the time the clients call me, they've decided to bump up to 2500 sf, and they tell me that so-and-so has said they'll be able to build for $90,000. Well, that's not quite what the builder said, is it? So based on their design, I'm the one that gets to tell them they're over $240K for certain. Or whatever it is. How do you think they take that news? And who looks bad?
To be clear, the builder gives more accurate estimates than I do. (Assuming a good builder.) She or he had better, because they live with that estimate. I don't be/c I don't charge % of const cost. My goal is to keep within a client's realistic budget and to have a builder who is happy building one of my designs (both from constr methods and profitability) so that I'll get future referrals. In our segment of the market, good builders are much more in demand than supply, so it's to my benefit to have the good ones like to work on my designs and with my clients. So, at the same time they're "training" me on doing designs that they find reasonable to build, I'm trying to "train" them to explain certain cost realities to those clients that they encounter before me. Be/c the next time one of their referrals has concluded they'll get the Taj Mahal in a dome for $45/sf, I just might scream.
Cloud, OK, I see what you were getting at. Sorry for ranting at you, but maybe I'm just a little sensitve on this point, since I've encountered it so often.
Never built a dome - never hardly see one around here (PNW).
Only burnt-out old hippies seem to live in them in these parts. Pls post a picture of one of yours if you can.
Roger
Ripping off the Oldsmobile tagline...these ain't your daddy's domes! As an industry segment, we're steering well clear of that whole counter-culture image. Mainstream materials and advantages. http://www.monolithicdome.com/gallery/homes/kaslik/index.html for pix from last Oct. http://www.cloudhidden.org for construction photos and renderings of other domes to be constructed in the next year or so.
wow - who woulda thunkit......
very innovative. glad to see somebody is doing something different and making to work!
Red,
I know EXACTLY how you feel! If I have another client tell me how much the job should go for according to the architect, I may personally strangle the architect! I don`t know if its an intentional ploy to lead homeowner through design process before the other shoe(actual cost) drops or what, but it infuriates me!J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
I think its pretty simple, but there are many analogies I would be happy to offer.
There is one party who is responsible for the finished cost and I'll give you a hint, itts not the architect. I have never met one who is willing to do the work or has the cost experience to build to a budget. So as someone else said, if design is paramount, talking to an architect first may be in line. Check the depth of your pockets before going this route. Architects are pretty reluctant do omit features from there design. Or keep them on a tight leash during design.
I think it would be fair to do your homework, find two builders with reputations for delivering a quality product on time and at budget and consult them during the design process. Personally, I would offer to pay them for their time. There input will be as valuable as the architects. Be firm with the architect regarding decisions that will affect cost per the builders recommendations.
I think you have to look at the motivations of the architect and the builder.
To oversimplify,
As a builder, I try to maximize profits to my company by limiting my future liability by building a quality product while maintaining my satisfaction of building challenging and rewarding projects. Of course, customer satisfaction is critical to getting the next job. Maintaining high levels of employees satisfaction helps to ensure the above and a steady crew to do the future work. I start with the premise that the homeowners budget is the key to customer satisfaction.
Maybe an architect out there can give us the architects motivations.
Tom
It's a chicken and egg question. When we started on our house we asked everyone in the area if they knew a good builder or architect. We asked realtors, friends and knocked on the doors of houses that we liked. We got lists of names and saw right away that some names came up over and over. Then we went and talked to those builders and architects who had the best references. We asked the builders about architects and the architects about builders. We asked them who would you recommend? Who have you worked with in the past? Who did you work well with? Who would you avoid? The list of names converged quickly.
I think it's important to talk to builders early in the process. The good ones are going to be busy, so you need to get on their planning horizon. They can also give you realistic guidelines for budget, planning and design. Most of the builders we talked to in our area agreed that basic well-built houses ("nothin' fancy") in our area were running about X dollars per square foot. As we worked with the architect, we reviewed our drafts with our perspective builders to make sure we were staying within their "nothin' fancy' guidelines. When the plans were done we got two bids from builders that we had been talking to along the way and their estimates were exactly what we expected.
And guess what? The final cost to us was within $2000 of the original estimate and we got a well-built house that we love.
One of the fastest growing segments of this industry is the Design/Build because it solves many of the problems that have been mentioned. Everything co-ordinated in house. Not cheaper, but smoother - and only one outfit to blame if the stool tips over.
Still have to closely check references though. You don't want someone who just started to add design to his card yesterday.