Step right up and cast your votes. This stuff is in the atic of a place I am estimating total re-do.
It is white – looks a lot like chopped fibreglas.
part of the description on the bag says, “A covering mineral wool building insulation consisting of processed rock, slag, or glass”
also, “scientificly treated to be dust free”
Unless I find out from researching the product name, I’ll probably have send a sample to be tested someplace.
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I never knew that rock wool had asbestos in it?
FWIW here is Wickes Lumber.
http://www.bradcosupply.com/about_subsidiaries.aspx
http://www.google.com/maps?hl=en&lr=&q=wickes&near=Saginaw,+MI&radius=0.0&latlng=43419444,-83950833,9534583466552894488&sa=X&oi=local&ct=result&cd=1
There is a ref on this bag dated rev 6/68Same Wickes corp I assume. It is Saginaw
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"There is a ref on this bag dated rev 6/68"I was wondering the age since the bag did not look that old.
It seems like they placed the bags down against the lathe between joists and then poured the wool from the next bag over it.I'll do more in the morning and not lose any sleep over it
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WTB vermiculite type done as a mineral wool....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
spun Vermiculate..
that's what I was looking for...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Edited 8/14/2006 8:06 pm by IMERC
Some vermiculite does contain asbestos. It depends on the mine where it came out of the ground. There are sites that include asbestos in the general catagory of mineral wool.I've been googling around and found one great reference site worth marking for everybody. From what they present, this is probably not asbestos containing, but I'll keep searching and tomorrow I'll call my insulation guy.http://www.inspect-ny.com/sickhouse/asbestoslook.htm
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that is the best,no hype site i have ever seen,thanks i got it bookmarked.larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Thanks guys, I talked to my insulation blower guy this AM and he said that from my description he does not believe I need to worry about an asbestos in it.
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Will you post some pics of th rock wool itself, please?
Are there visual clues to look for?I just got a copy of the engineer's inspection report. Disclaimers notwithstanding, he goes into the insulation but offers no warnings.
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I just like seing pics of this stuff when it is clearly identified
Are you coming to the fest? Maybe Piffin will bring you a baggie to look at. I believe it's rock wool, but it's not easy to tell from a picture.
Gotta skip the fest, dang it....
Thanks for that link! I'm going to put the link on our website.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." Voltaire
I've always known mineral fiber to be synonomous with rock wool, but I suppose there's no gauruntee that it doesn't have asbestos fibers in it, is there.
zak
"so it goes"
Piffin,
We had a Wickes Lumber right 2 blocks down the street. That store along with one in nearby town of Grand Blanc & headquaters in Saginaw, Mi. were bought out by United Building Centers, a couple years ago.
We still have the same manager, Wickes, he has been with the company for a long time, if you are unsure I can check with him for more info on that product, he's a very knowlagable guy.
Just give the word.
What does it cost for a test?FWIW Wickes Lumber is named in an asbestos suit:http://www.belluckfox.com/mesothelioma/company_list_asbestos_use.html I need a dump truck, baby, to unload my head
I'd be suprised if there was a company in existence that wasn't named in an asbestos suit
I came across that site searching yesterday. Seemed more adversarial and less informative. I've handled plenty of loose friable asbestos in my career. I know there are several different kinds, but this does not look or feel like any I have seen before. It is more like a cross between Rock wool, and fibreglaas, as I have known them to exist.cost is a net zero no matter what the price is, if it protects somebody from harm. Maybe the highest standard of due diligence calls for me to just send it off.
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<Maybe the highest standard of due diligence calls for me to just send it off.>I figgured you'd end up there<G> I need a dump truck, baby, to unload my head
Here it costs $35 for a test and you get the results back in 24 hrs.
I just recently sent in two, came back negative, but I feel better about it.
Over 1% asbestos is considered a hazard in the US; 5% in Canada; no standard in Mexico. That is why products are still mfgr. using asbestos.
Peace of mind for $35; cheap.
http://grungefm.com
Sure, lay it on him. I assume that as a company rep, he might be close mouthed if it is asbestos, so tell him this is non-adversarial for info only, just to protect my guys and future occupants - we xcan have it properly sucked out if need be.
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I have already sent him an e-mail and attachhed your post and photos. Let's see what happens.
I am suprised that this product made it to the east coast.
I am located in Davison, MI. the headquaters of Fernco & Genova products.
Yeah, the only wickes I knew of were out west, but marketing is like politics - makes for strange bedfellows.
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Looks like 'rock wool', usually a non-asbestos material.
You can send me a sample for analysis in my New York State approved lab. Usual cost is $15. - $20. But I'll run it for free for you. Send a small sample, like the one in the photo. Please use a zip-lock sandwich bag. I'm a NYS certified Asbestos Inspector.
Bart Gallagher
Enviroscience Consultants, Inc.
2150 Smithtown Avenue
Ronkonkoma, NY 11779
(631) 580-3191
I'll send it out today
with a check
Thanks
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Thanks for that report you called with.
I'll be looking for the paper version for records.For everyone else, it was rock wool only and not asbestos.
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I just sucked what seems to be basically the same stuff out my attic. The effect on your lungs is basically the same as asbestos. It is mineral and your immune system cannot break it down. It may not drill it's way to our pleural membrane in the same way, but protection is essential. A respirator rated for asbestos is needed plus a suit to keep it out of your clothes. It breaks into very fine particles like asbestos and will go right through the average respirator cartridge.
It sucks out pretty nicely with a healthy dust collection system. A system with 4" line reduced down to 3 is adequate. I sucked it right into large garbage bags and off to the dump.
The biggest difference is the legal issues aren't there yet with rock wool.
All the best!
Piffin,
He is the reply from the Wickes Lumber manager:
Hey Fast Fred,I started with Wickes back in 1971 and barely remember this product. But, to the best of my recollection there was no asbestos in this product....at least the product we handled in Michigan. If the product came from the same manufacturer or a manufacturer out east, I wouldn't know. Best bet is to have it tested for the safety of all parties concerned.Rich
Seem like you are doing the right thing.
As a home inspector, i try to stay current so I can advise my clients accurately.
Are you aware of any studies or other sources which support your view that rock wool will havethe same effects as asbestos?
My understanding (which might be inaccurate) is that particle size is a key element of the dangers of asbestos
Sorry, to take so long in the response re: effects of rock wool versus asbestos. Particle size will effect how much of the mineral dust will enter the air stream and the ease at which it will get into your lungs. I don't have any studies at hand to quote or provide you with. What I do have is experience with both. In working with rock wool I found particles coming through an AO Safety's respirator filters even though there was no visible particulate in the air. It tore up my lungs pretty bad. After the incident I discovered the filters were not rated for asbestos or fine particlate dust. So i know the particle size for rock wool is small enough to get into your lungs and all but the best filters. Asbestos may break done into even smaller particles, rock wool is small enough to be insidious and damaging.
Many studies have been done on Silicosis that developed from people who mined rock. Similar in etiology to asbestosis. Rock wool may not cause mesothelioma. The structure and shape of the particles may be different and not migrate through the lung tissue in the same way. So all I have to offer is common sense and experience that tell me precautions are needed.
Thank you for all that too. If I get this job, I'll habve some special procedures set up for the guys.
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