I’m attaching the mahogany threads to the stringers this weekend. I know I can countersink the screws and follow with a wood plug, but wondered if there was another way, maybe use some Simpson hardware to secure steps. They will extend past the edge of the end stringers about an inch. The screw from above and plug would involve 2 1/2 SS screws.
I remember someone saying he used the zmak for joist hangers and lined them with some rubber product like peel and stick so ACQ lumber would not make direct contact. I know I can use SS, but there would be alot of them and that’s expensive.
Thanks
Kevin
Replies
First; I "believe" you should be able to contain the TREADS within the stringer. TREADS sting past the stringers is not a detail I like to see.
How about letting the treads into the stringer, or attatching the treads to cleats from the bottom?
Eric
[email protected]
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&ft=0&ctx=1&cacheTag=x7-31&ld=&gfc=1&msg=103297.5#a5
ss finish screws.[email protected]
no wood plugs?
That building does not look like a church. All due respect too.
The heads are small. The wood will swell a bit over the holes.
[email protected]
Are you talking about trim screws? They have tiny heads. And the building is a temple to good times!:)
"And the building is a temple to good times!:)"
Looks like a great place. I would try and make the detailing of the stairs and any railing simple in the island spirit. Maybe look at some Nantucket or Key West porches.
keeping it simple is what we are doing, nothing fancy.
doc, you started in the middle of the story. Please go back to the beginning. What/where/when/why/how or a reasonably fac simile thereof.
I'm heading down the shore, I'll post a pic later.
Thanks
Kevin
That'll help.
pics as promised:
Jesus, doc! What are you planning to do? Invite an Imperial Battle Walker from Star Wars to come up those steps??
You don't need that many intermediate stringers, for one thing--32" centers is fine for porch steps with 2x treads; some people go 48"--and you sure don't need that poisonous ACQ #### at all. Just make sure the concrete footer is crowned so it will drain, and if you wanna be neurotic, slip a pair of sacrificial cedar shims under each post and stringer foot. Glue 'em in place with PL Premium and forget about it for 20 years....
I would have built those steps with housed stringers on both sides and one cut stringer in the middle. The outside stringers and those posts should be mahogony because they'll be seen. The middle stringer--which will never be seen--can be cut from a standard KD 2x12. Use 8/4 tread stock and plane it only enough to take the fuzz off the top side--say, 1-7/8" finish. No one's ever gonna see the bottom. Make sure you lay the heart up on those treads, and all the deck boards, too. If you don't, they'll cup upwards and catch and retain rain water. Not watcha want.
As for attaching the treads, with housed stringers you screw and plug from the outside into the endgrain of each tread--say two 4" #14's each end--but you also glue the treads into the dadoes. The screws serve to hold it together while the glue dries. To attach the treads to the intermediate stringer, 'toenail' screws up through the stringer into the bottom of the tread. Use one of those Kreg pocket-screw jigs if you've got one.
And yeah, like Eric said, use stainless hardware.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
This is more of a question than a comment because I really don't know that much about stairs. But shouldn't there be a kicker notched into the bottom of the stringers? Something that would keep the stringers from wanting to push away from the hanger board?
yeah, I forgot that part, I plan to put some angles with SS to stringer and Tapcons to concrete, one each stringer.
Couple of points:
That first paragraph had me laughing for 2-3 minutes.
The stringers are ACQ, one block from ocean, things rot quick. I could probably live with 32" on center, currently 16 now. Like the idea of housed stringer, too late for mahogany posts. I'd go with pine, it will be painted. I was thinking of toenailing the screws from underneath in the intermediate as you say, wanted someone here to say it was ok.
Thanks for giving us a look at the place.
I've nothing to add to what's been suggested already.
I'd enjoy seeing some photos of the finished porch and stairs.
You might also put in some photos of other renovated places like yours. Beach houses of that period and style are a rare sight for many of us in-land dwellers.
Glad to get you more pics when I have time. There are only a few houses like mine on the island anymore, some of the same era, but larger have been restored beautifully.
FWIW I would move the outside stringers to the inside of the posts. You have created extra work now in detailing the treads and risers. Love the choice on front door color. Reminds me of the old meth houses from the late seventies, are you going to have a "black" light for the porch light? Little Jimi playing on the boom box?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
moving the stringers, I'll have to see if it's doable, even worth it. save work one place but create work by moving them.
Door was purple when I bought it 4 years ago. I want to change the color of door and trim, wife will be picking the color. Glad I could help with your flashback:)
I'll be contrary here.
Use SS ring shank nails for the treads. Set the heads just flush.
Why ? You ask?
Cuz you are at the beach, and sand will fill screw heads and holes.
Actually, no, that's not why, just cuz nails work just fine.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
"sand will fill screw heads and holes"
There's a joke in there somewhere.
The idea is to not have fasteners seen or be able to catch bear feet. I'm probably going to drill from above and plug. I'll be cutting 8" or so off the front step threads, I can make plugs out of that, perfect match.
Waaaaait a minnit.
Mahogany + ACQ??????
What you doin' there, Doc? Sounds like somebody cookin' up a mess of collard greens to go on top of the cheesecake....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&ft=0&ctx=1&cacheTag=x7-31&ld=&gfc=1&msg=103297.5#a5
You could use Simpson staircase angles and ss or galvy lags. Unless you use ss angles, you should isolate the angles from the PT using vycor or strips of I&W. Not the most elegant solution but functional and fast.
FYI - I put my stringers on 16" centers too. I would have not cast the 4x4 posts into the concrete though. It causes them to rot. Don't worry about it though - what you have is fine. There are various hidden deck board fastening systems - they do tend to be expensive though, and with that or the toe-nail from underneath thing, you will have a very hard time doing the bottom tread. I'd just go with the SS trim head screws. I always like to secure stair treads with screws - you don't want them coming loose. That would equate to an accident.
When the porch boards are perpendicular to the steps I always inset (for lack of a better term) a floor board at the edge of the porch parallel to the stairs so the endgrain won't be exposed at the top of the top riser. It requires some additional blocking, etc under the porch though.
BTW - what are you fastening the rest of the porch floor with?
I think the steps would look sharp with maybe white Azek risers. Or maybe some kind of composite decking (unpainted) that would bleach white over time. Be a nice contrast against the dark wood color. And how will you finish this floor and steps? Some kind of stain or clear penetrating deck finish?
Regarding the overall look of the place personally I'd wrap the stair rail posts and the porch posts in something. They sell Azek post wraps - they wouldn't have to be painted or anything and it would upscale the whole place a full notch. Cost about $200 a post for that size. Based on your other posts that might sound like a lot but I think the impact would be dramatic. I'd like to see a pic from further back though.
Edited 4/11/2008 7:16 am ET by Matt
Hey Matt
I thought about several of the things your suggesting in your post. Most of the houses from that time didn't trim the front edge of the floor boards. I like the look for modern houses, but I want this to look a little rough. Thats why I won't be using any plastic like Azec. I built the railing out of wood as well. I had thought about wrapping the posts in wood and adding some detail, but I need a CO quick or the ins is going to drop me. No time.
Yea - I was wondering if my suggestions might yield a too finished look - no disrespect intended... OTOH, at the beach I would think you would want materials that are as weather resistant as possible. Also though - composites wouldn't look that inconsistent with what you are doing - like the stuff in the pic I posted...
On a small tangent, I was talking to an archi some time ago. He was telling me that I should use more PVC (Azek) exterior trim on a particular project and started telling me about the Azek pre-made corner boards. I told him that the budget didn't support, and started going on and on about $45 for a 1x8, etc, etc.... He remarked - "yea - we have a project at the beach. It's completely trimmed out in PVC, and is $135k over budget". Sometimes architects aren't responsible for the pesky end results of some aspects of a project like budgets... :-)
The low maintenance is appealing, but the "plastic look' that comes with it is just not what I want. Not for this house, my primary home has azek and i love it, 1960's ranch.
I hear ya. OTOH, There are some fabulous second empire Victorian homes in the city where I live. I think they call 'em "painted ladies". I'm thinking that their maintenance budget (for exterior paint, etc) must be similar to my mortgage payment... Must be nice to have that kind of money....
Here is an example:
http://users.rcn.com/scndempr/dave/bedbreak/east/NorC04.jpg
PS - look at the attached pic. Notice how the bottom riser goes in front of the rail post, as does the bottom edge tread board. I always use this detail on exterior steps whenever I can - it really helps stabilize the post and I think it looks good. It's kind of one of my little trade mark details. Might be too late in your case though.
On that pic I can't remember why I put that skirt board in there like that... must have been some aesthetic reason. Kinda weird really...
I always use that detail in one form or another too. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
These are great hidden fasteners no screws seen.
http://www.ebty.com/
my decking is done, used SS staples, T&G. Can't see how EB would work for threads, remember they are solid1 inch thick, 11 1/4 deep.
I think it's all fine - SS screws, the spacing of stringers, yadda yadda. I did the same thing New Years by D.C. - bad pic; working at night, in the rain - a family job, obviously. This was Ipe over ACQ; countersunk heads
View Image
Forrest
Edited 4/12/2008 10:58 am ET by McDesign