Would anyone recommend an autocad program for preparing plans for garages, house additions, etc–something geared towards a non-professional doing most of the work himself. I have a few projects on the horizon, and need to develop plans adequate to get a permit. I would like something reasonably easy to use, and reasonably priced.
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CAD is an acronym for Computer Aoded Design, or Computer Aided drafting, which are two slightly different things.
AutoCad is the name of one program available for this kind of work. It owns the territory in commercial design and rocket science kind of drafting.
Softplan and Chief Architect and Vectorworks are more basic professional object oriented design pachages.
There have been several threads discussintg the pros and cons and naming a few other alsoran CAD programs here that you could find using the advanced search function here and the term CAD
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
If looking at AutoCAD, don't foget the much cheaper AutoCAD LT. All the same functions, except 3D is a pain in the arse.“The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume
Skip the AutoCad LT and drop down to AutoSketch, about $120. It is an electronic drafting table: no 3d, no automatic sections ... just what you could draw with a pencil and straight edge, but more accurate. AutoCad LT is up around $1k now.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
LT will not always do the same things. You cannot import an jpeg image on one layer and draw over the top of it on another.
Willamena,
Welcome to Breaktime.
Check out "PUNCH". Entry level is about $50.00. User friendly.
Chuck S
Edited 2/3/2007 7:54 pm ET by stevent1
worst case scenario. pry the drawer head off, mount the pull, re-apply it with a brad nailer (1 1/2 to 2" brads). I still think you should be able to find access from behind somehow. you may even have to remove a cabinet. look for scews joining the cabinets together for a place to start.
"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."
Bozini Latini
I love SketchUp for drawing plans, etc.
This months JLC magazine has an article entitled "Builder CAD for less than $1000. Of interest to other folks here is that SketchUp Pro receives rather high marks except in the "Working Drawings" category - heck - all I really want is working drawings...
If you're doing something complicated and need to be able to actually DRAW everything out, then SketchUp is more than fine. It gives you complete control. But it doesn't have any of the built-in "helpers" that architect-specific programs have. So you really have to DRAW it.I love the fact that I can actually send little wires through the walls in 3D...and the plumbing and HVAC, too. *g*
Would you mind posting some of the stuff you've done in Sketchup? I've started using it for detailed construction modeling, and always like to see what people are doing- especially with piping/HVAC/electrical coordination.
Thanks,
Bob
Hehe. I've JUST started using it, so nothing much to look at! This is pretty cool, though:http://www.sketchup.com/?id=20&gid=1303#top
http://www.sketchup.com/index.php?id=20&gid=155#top
One thing I can't figure out in SketchUp is how to align things. Guessing by your models you figured it out(!).
Kevin
Go to help menu and look for Construction Tools in the index. You'll see a sub-heading for Axes tool. Check this out and see if it helps.
Also, look up Tape Measure in the help index, look for the Using sub-heading. They talk about turning on construction lines.
Hope this helps.Joe“The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume
Oh, those aren't mine! I'd barely opened it. I linked to things other people did.
Alignment can be tricky.
View Image
BTW, THAT was my first project. (I know it's big--it's what I happen to have on my site already)
Bob...I've been messing with it this week too. Pretty nice for free I do have to say...but of course then you get hooked and want to buy the real deal...duh.
http://groups.google.com/group/SketchUp
Be well
andy
Greek poet Archilochus said: "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing"! From The Hedgehog & The Fox ~~~~ An essay on Tolstoy's view of history ~~ by Isaiah Berlin
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
What are the actuall/practical differences between the trial version and the real thing?“The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume
Not much, when you really come down to it. There are a number of exporting formats the Pro version can handle, in order to get a SU model out and used in many of the various high end rendering packages.
That might be important for an architect wanting to do a rendering so as to look hand-painted or hand-drawn.
But even on the hand-drawn side of things, SU has introduced a whole lotta "style" options into the latest release of Google SU (the free download) to enable custom looks in the outputs.
For doing realistic terrain in which to set models, the Pro version has a function called Sandbox that enables smoothing contours, and converting topo gradients to smoothed renderings.
The Pro version also has greatly expanded print layout functions, compared to the free one.
In this screencap, I was using SU to try to get the feel of two versions of a house design, one stretched two feet in x and y, the other smaller as originally designed. SU can give me the look of the expanded space, so I can compare to the smaller. The woman, woodstove, and table and chairs, are all components right out of the SU library.
View Image
For outputting working drawings, a Google SU model can be sectioned in as many ways as needed, and the PAGING and LAYER functions cleverly used, plus using the commands to toggle perspective rendering, so standard ordinate (top, front, left side, right side, etc.) views are all shown in a paged file. For example, a file can open to page 1, showing the full model in 3D perspective, all colored, textured, with terrain and topo, trees, cars in the driveway, people, etc. Page numbers are tabbed across the top of the screen. Opening other screen tabs might show, in blueprint style, a completely dimensioned plan view of the foundation, while other pages might contain 2D elevation views with window schedules, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Here is an example of Google SU's rendering style called blueprint. I left perspective on, but I could have turned it off and snapped a front view, and turned on a layer that adds dimensions, notes, etc. You get the idea.
View Image
What is really cool, I think, is that Google has created hugely rich component files into which are preloaded, for example, a major manufacturers complete kitchen appliance line, so you can just cut and paste 3D fridges, ranges, dishwashers, etc., into models. And I cannot say enough about the Google 3D Warehouse, a site in which EVERYBODY from all over the world post copies of models they've built, and any of them are downloadable to SU at your PC. Need the Eiffel Tower? No problem.
I use SU to model new construction and remodeling projects. My focus is on producing models with enough accuracy to:
Perform sitework: rough grade, cut, fill, cut for footings.
Do all rough framing: include all key parts to scale, including rafters, beams, joists, etc. SU prints show all roof cutting details, for stick framing, and all truss elements, if engineered trusses are used. We can frame up a quite complex house or addition using only SU output, and no other working drawings.
Design and either build or order all built-ins and cabinetry. Same as for framing, all parts are detailed to 1/16" accuracy and outputs are used at jobsite or communicated to vendors.
I've posted a lot of SU screencaps on Breaktime, so I am sure you have seen them.
I have not found SU versatile enough for detailing electrical or plumbing and heating schemes, and for that, I go back to Cadkey 97, and old 3D package I have, which is much like AutoCad.
For curved structural or trim elements when we use full-sized plotted templates for jigsawing or bandsawing parts from stock, I use Cadkey 97, emailing files in .dwg format to my surveyor, who plots them for me on his large plotter.
I've lately been using screencaps (the only way I do SU outputs, via the "export 2D image" function) to communicate house geometry to heating supply people in working out the heating equipment plan for a project.
I would really like to see how you are able to use SU to do electrical or plumbing and heating schematics. Email me privately and we can share some knowledge.
But it doesn't have any of the built-in "helpers" that architect-specific programs have
Which can be better, too. Some of those "helpers" are only helpful if they can be used "stock." Almost all of them require building an entire 3d model, too--needed or not. This can be a lot of overhead for a novice user.
A body can vex ADT by just wanting one cathedral-ceiling-ed dormer (this requires a special wall and roof and ceiling "slab" to build the model.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
http://www.progecad.com/downloads/index.htmlfyihaven't learned it yet
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
believe progecad lt is available
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
No kidding. That's why I like SketchUp so much--I don't WANT stock solutions, darn it! I've used real AutoCAD, and SketchUp is a great deal like how I wished AutoCad would be...
I use DesignCAD Express 14 because it can do cabinets, furniture and buildings too. But the free online support for one year sold me.
Best to you and yours, Chris.
Some say I know too much.
I have an earlier version of DesignCAD. It is certainly a powerful program for the money (I paid well under $100). However, the documentation leaves a lot to be desired, and it is anything but intuitive, even for someone like myself who has a number of years in as a computer software support person and also spent some time long ago as a draftsman. The only supplied documentation is a reference manual and if you don't know the exact phrase they use to describe some action you want, it can difficult to find it. It is more of a general purpose CAD program that is tweaked slightly toward architectural uses.I also have a student copy of AutoCAD. I was too deaf to hear the instructor. I was warned that AutoCAD is not something that can readily be self taught even to someone who has worked with several drafting programs and has taught himself several computer languages from manuals. I also have Home Designer Pro, which is supposedly a "crippled", $400 version of Chief Architect. It appears to be quite powerful to design houses using standard components, but falls way short in having CAD capabilities to design special elements. As was suggested earlier, check the Breaktime archives using the search function. If you want something under $1000, Sketchup seems to have a lot of boosters and you can start with a free version and then get a "professional" version for a few hundred dollars if you need the additional power.
I teach Autocad....I agree it's definitely quicker to get some instruction and get higher up the learning curve, but I think if someone has some knowledge of another CAD program, you can teach yourself. I did; started with another program, sat in on a few ACAD classes, and then taught myself the rest.
BTW, if anyone has struggled with ACAD before, it's getting easier to use and more productive. Lots of new features that work. I'm still teaching ACAD 2006, but some of my students are using 2007.....even more new features. My guys start in September, and by Christmas 90% of them are having fun; after Christmas we start 3D, and now they're flying.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
http://www.bcadservices.com/
Jeff
PUNCH for the money is great software, but is limited. I just designed an add level for a client who has trouble foreseeing the end result. PUNCH is great for this and very user friendly.
I created this in less then 2 hours. This house was a cape cod.
With the click of the mouse you can show all your dimensions.
As Piffin suggest, search "CAD". Lots of info out there.
Turbocad LE "learning edition" is a free download, it is an old version, 2-d only but I found it very helpful for doing elevations for color and siding choices, as well as site grading....3D Home Architect from Broderbund, is the absolute best of the "DIY" programs IMHO. Problem is Version 3.0 is the good one, 5 and 6 are not nearly as easy to use.
View Image
meant to attach this to previous post.
"3D Home Architect from Broderbund, is the absolute best of the "DIY" programs IMHO."That is based on Cheif Arch. Later versions from Broderbund uses a different engine and is completely different.The current DIY version of Chief Arch are sold as Better Homes and Garden Home design..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Softplan CAD / Renderings
http://www.softplan.com
Edited 2/5/2007 8:10 pm ET by txlandlord
Tx, you aren't trying to show me up here are you?... ;D
If I had done these I certainly would have said so, they look like pictures.
I pulled these from the Softplan site listed in the post I did not do the renderings. They are the product of some of the SP power pro users, who make their primary living in design work.
The renderings show the possibilities, and you ain't seen nothing yet. Turn on a light, show a cloudy day, sunny day, depict the sun and the shadows it creates from an input direction, etc., etc.
I am still learning. Using SP for plans / elevations, and whatever is necessary to spell out design / build contracts in a home building business. I don't have much time for learning all of the capabilities of SP.
I have been getting more design request lately and renderings is my next step in the long lerrning curve. Maybe next year. I am doing tutorials currently in my spare time (1:00 AM to 5:00 AM). : - )
Tex,Did you do those? If yes, approximately how long would it take to get from a working floor plan to the point where your pics are?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon,
I wish I had done these. Read the previous post.
I do know that once you create a foundation, floor plan, frame plan for joist and roof with some definitions work.....that SP will self generate elevations, sections, bare frame elevations, etc. , but renderings is advanced class and I am not there........YET.
SP has some cool capabilities, almost no limitations in the professional realm. A recent pole, published by American Institute of Building Designers (AIBD) says it a close second in number of users behind AutoCAD. The SP users forum is packed with former AutoCAD users who will not go back. SP has me anxious to learn more for the future.....something I could do in retirement for Crusie money.
I teach in a Middle School Technology Education classroom and one of the modules is CAD. We use Chief Architect 10 and the students love it. They do a short tutorial and then design their own house. School price was around $250, it has 3D and probably more features than the average person needs. I doubt there will be any problems getting a building permit when using Chief Architect.
An educational version for free is available at http://students.autodesk.com
Several of them are full versions. They cannot be used commercially. You may want to try one out first before buying. When you try to download them remember they are huge files and will take a long time to download.
First and foremost, don't cheap out on buying a CAD program. You'll end up using it far more than you can imagine. Your investment of time in learning to use CAD will be far more than the price of the program. The last thing you want is to have to change programs and un-learn in order to learn again. So, avoid the toy programs. I wish I had.
The next thing you need to decide is whether you want something general purpose, like AutoCAD LT, or building specific, like Chief Architect. I went with LT, and can't comment on the construction oriented ones, since I've never used them.
-- J.S.
You are absolutely right. So many many other programs use the same skills Autocad uses. There are many many programs that Autodesk does not have that use the same skills as autocad.