stand tall friends
we have a customer that has been puhing us to get started
the weather has held us up at his job, as well as current jobs
his building site is soaking wet ( were in Oregon)
the dig out , right now , would be a simming hole, and its not salmon season
we last told him, on friday, give me a week of good weather
he stormed in to the office yesterday wanting his plans, permits and a bill or credit to his account, pretty much closing the account
seems he found someone else that will start NOW
ok, cool , here you go, as, luckily, I have plenty of work, not enough people
when he left, I called other clients, hey we can move you up, we can be there Monday, are you ready, after all, I need to asure we have work everyday
so again, no problem, thank God, we are still going 100 mph
guess what
e-mail this morning, would I reconsider,
Im thinking it was all a bluff, when he came in and demanded we start now or go away, he was expecting me to bow down and cry, saying, Ill be at your door tomorow
now he is scrambling
hey, he said, you can do part of it, not build the whole house
I said , sure I can rebid it, and just for your information, Im now another two months out instead of 10 days out, and material prices are up, so yes I can re bid it
what what what
gee, some people should not play poker, as the bluff backfired big time
gee aint it good to be on the win side of things
Replies
Always good to be driving the car instead of the usual running in front of it. Nicely done. DanT
You got lucky. This guys smells like trouble.
Birth, school, work, death.....................
http://grantlogan.net/
I'm sure the dude was fustrated, people are use to instant everything now... I get mad when my internet slows up... all this information that i have to have NOW... Guess it's just the way of the world... at least in our USA world... fast food should not take more than 5min, with FedEx if i order it today I almost expect it in the morning, with internet, email, & faxes everything that can get done should be done NOW... so a little matter of WEATHER shouldn't hold anyone up...
hard to blame the guy too much, people have no clue how to wait for anything... thats what credit is for
p
Run
don't walk
Have a good day
Cliffy
I'd be asking myself if I really needed this drama queen. Let someone else put up with him
Good advice so far, IMO.
Isn't it nice to have a good track record that provides a solid business future?
I tell my people, "There's better work for better people, better to let that one make someone else's life miserable."
If you rebid, now you can add in 10% for the "person" factor.
Success is half knowing what to do and half knowing what not to do.
Our ancestors killed mastadons with pointy sticks!
I'm with the other guys on this customer. Do not walk away, RUN fast as heck, do not rebid, etc.
So far I've only had one customer that I absolutely hated to work with (had plenty of characters and personalities, but I'm talking about a couple that were such total azzholes that I had to force myself to get to the job every day with pained expression on my face and once there just thinking about them made me want to leave early). They were exactly like what you describe. Want what they want when they want it and the realities of life, laws of physics, and everything else (and weather, for example) just don't apply to them. I remember one time the guy was home during the day on a day when I got on-site at around 10:00 am. He wanted to know why I was "disrespecting them" by not getting there every day at the crack of dawn. I had to explain to him that materials do not arrive on site by magic -- that I actually have to go to buy them and sometimes the store or supply house is crowded and you actually have to spend some time there, and that as a self-employed business man, as long as I got his job done on schedule, it was none of his f'in business what time I got there, and on and on (what I should have said is "f... you" and walked off the job -- wish I had). That one customer ruined my "mood" and outlook for at least six months. No amount of money worth it.
So far I've only had one customer that I absolutely hated to work with (had plenty of characters and personalities, but I'm talking about a couple that were such total azzholes that I had to force myself to get to the job every day with pained expression on my face and once there just thinking about them made me want to leave early).
I've worked for those folks too! I wondered who took over the project after I walked off of it......lol.
Bob
very well written... this was classic
Want what they want when they want it and the realities of life, laws of physics, and everything else (and weather, for example) just don't apply to them.
I'll tell you now i will use that line and take full credit for it :)
p
Use it in good health, with my blessings, etc., etc.
wait! didn't you like my part about the "boil in the butt thing"
it happens
In keeping with the poker theme...I'd say this guy showed his hand too early. He has a tell; he can't controll his irrational outbursts. Now the question is do you stay in the game and raise him, knowing he's holding a crybaby attitide and an "I'm more important than everyone else", or fold....
"Oh, this is the worst-looking hat I ever saw. What, when you buy a hat like this I bet you get a free bowl of soup, huh? Oh, it looks good on you though."
it's probably obvious from my previous posts that i'm a homeowner who isn't in the business. i do alot of my own renovation, but sometimes run into the need for a good contractor.
recently, i found out (when removing a brick patio to relay it)that i had extensive sill damage to a portion of my house. i spoke to my new neighbors and found the BEST contractor in the area to have a look at fixing it, this being something beyond me to fix. he came out in september and since has scheduled 3 times to fix the problem. meanwhile it has gotten cold and i have a hole to my basement. i understand that he is busy, i understand that he is shorthanded, i understand that this is a VERY small job for him.
when i asked him "please just tell me if you can't do this" he assured me he could. now, we're planning an extensive renovation to our house and he won't be in the bidding process. the sill remains unfixed, can't find someone to help.
i don't excuse this guy's behavior, sounds like a jerk. i can understand the frustration..... am i in the wrong forum? is this the place for contractors to bash customers? it kind of makes me sad.
isamemon,....please remember he isn't indicative of all customers.
john
"am i in the wrong forum? is this the place for contractors to bash customers?"If you think that was bashing, stick around a little longer, that was no bashing.all three sides do their fare share of letting off steam.take it at face value, one contractor stating how one customer acted.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
the point is.....there exist alot of factors that can't be accurately portrayed in a short post, and there are many sides to any issue.when i see "run, not walk away" i question the wisdom of the comment. i am "your customer" and i'm learning alot about how contractors think. often not so positive.having said that, i have recieved incredible amounts of help from guys like you with experience and i appreciate it immesurably, i've even been able to help out other people like me in this forum.....i guess that's the point. "If you think that was bashing, stick around a little longer", another ill-conceived comment.
actually I was not intending to bash anyone, thats why I started "stand tall"
my original intent was to say, stand tall guys, and dont back down in a power play
it was intended to be inspirational to those of us in this industry
yet many many a times I have backed down, taken blame for things not may fault
so this is one time, where I stood my ground , and it was all a bluff by the owner
this morning, I got a e-mail from that owner, apologizing, that he obviously burned a bridge, saying that he hopes we can still be friends
and thanking us for designing his house
sorry isamemon.....i was refering to some of the replies to the post. i was trying to help by suggesting that us "customers" can be jerks, but we also wish for another shot when we mess up too.
I didn't take your post as bashing, or anyone else's either.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
"is this the place for contractors to bash customers?"
I think anybody bashing anybody is fair game around here.
Q; How do you get 5 oboes in tune?
A: Shoot 4 of them.
rest assured boss, i've followed your threads....got a pretty good picture.again my point to isamenon was god knows if this guy got a divorce decree from the court that morning, or that he got screwed by an unscrupulous contractor before or maybe he had a boil on is butt that he couldn't get rid of.........etc.
As a residential contractor, I need residential customers (ie, homeowners). But, I don't jerk them around and expect the same treatment. This customer was doing some jerking. 'nuff said.Birth, school, work, death.....................
http://grantlogan.net/
i still wish you worked in new jersey.........
John:
There's a bad apple or two (and customer) in every large barrel. I admit I don't say much about all of the good customers that are among the reasons why I love what I do and keep doing it, and I dare say it's similar for others. I don't see it as bashing customers, more like "old war stories" to blow off steam now and again (hey, the customer apparently expected an omnipotent weather changer -- I only know one of them so the customer better start praying rather than complaining and harassing his contractor). In your job, I bet there are discussions around the water cooler or at the pub with your co-workers talking in a similar manner about other co-workers or customers.
For the guy who is behind on your job, maybe ask him to give you a reasonable deadline as to by when it will be started and when it will be done. If you can live with what he gives you, make sure you give him a call to touch base as the start date approaches to see if things are still on track (stuff happens). If he can't give you at least a rough schedule or the time he has doesn't fit with what you need, let him know that and focus your efforts on looking for someone else. I have to tell you though, if it were me, waiting for someone with a sterling reputation is worth it rather than finding just anyone to do a job you can't. Since the guy is known for a job well done, there's a reason why he is so busy (and why we all try are darndest to protect our own reputations -- good reputation is worth more than gold). Your situation is by no means unique (when my better half threatens to hire someone to do a job around my house that I can't get to right away I tell her to go ahead and try -- by the time she can find someone not swamped to do the job . . . ). In the overall cycle, it's just a very "up" time.
Your situation is also a wake up call for why small jobs are often still worth doing. Not much moeny in small stuff, but more often than not, a job well done is rewarded with more and more work.
damn skippy!!!i have followed up with him extensively....he's a nice guy....but.i have a lot of people who work for me, i like to think i'm a good boss, but in the end reliabilty is really the key.thanks for the advice.do you work in NJ? tee hee
>> "damn skippy!!! . . . tee hee"
(?) If there's a hook on the end of that line, I'm not biting.
>> "do you work in NJ?"
Ah . . . No.
"Your situation is also a wake up call for why small jobs are often still worth doing."On the small jobs -
sometimes they are the most lucrative, and sometimes they are just a PIA. th eway I try to handle them is to keep the main crew on whatever big job is happening. They can do the work with me just stopping by for a couple hourw every moring most times, unless we have a cruch going and I work all day.The rest of the time i keep m,yself floating between the office, sales calls, design work, and doing just small stuff. sometimes with a helper and sometimes alone.IMO it works great for me and for customers. A lot of our small stuff is for previous customers who still want that primo service they were used to when they were the big job. I get to do some smoozing with them, and do sales when it is a new client or feel them out, while I am sure sometimes they are feeling me out for a larger job. Lots of times it does turn into another job later on.
One example, a retired guy wanted me to use my jackhammer to cut some ledge so drainage would not run on the driveway and wash it out every storm. I hate using that monster, but he was a nice guy so I did this on a saturdaay - four hours and some good money.Then the next year, he remembered how pleasent it was working with me and how I'd showed up when I said i would eetc. He had us do a $38,000 remo.
Then three years later, they decided they had too much house, sold it and wanted a new smaller onme built. I was there on the short list, but I had too much other work at the time...so this is just a hint for some of you guys on managing time to be easier on your self, while keeping open to those oportunities that can come with the small job market. I've had experiences like isammenon too. They can come from having confidence in yourself. If he'd had less backbone, this customer would now be walking all over him.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
recently, i found out (when removing a brick patio to relay it)that i had extensive sill damage to a portion of my house. i spoke to my new neighbors and found the BEST contractor in the area to have a look at fixing it, this being something beyond me to fix. he came out in september and since has scheduled 3 times to fix the problem. meanwhile it has gotten cold and i have a hole to my basement. i understand that he is busy, i understand that he is shorthanded, i understand that this is a VERY small job for him.
when i asked him "please just tell me if you can't do this" he assured me he could. now, we're planning an extensive renovation to our house and he won't be in the bidding process. the sill remains unfixed, can't find someone to help.
~~~~~~~
I don't excuse this guy's behavior, sounds like a jerk. I can understand the frustration..... am I in the wrong forum? is this the place for customers to bash contractors? it kind of makes me sad.
;o)
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength. ~~ Eric Hoffer
that's helpful.....hmmm context be damned!;o)
LOLI figured you'd get it.=0)Welcome to Breaktime !
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength. ~~ Eric Hoffer
sill damage ............. being something beyond me to fix
Why beyond you? Are you disabled? Can understand if you make $300/hr in another job and its not cost effective to DIY, but even making up to $100/hr before taxes DIY is a big payoff in lack of hassle, etc. Time spent doing jobs from auto repair to FHB type work has alway been less for me than it would be just arranging the job. (you do have to spend a little extra time the very first time you do something)
Granted, the gifted artistry in building an elegant set of stairs and some other super fine work displayed by many pros here who are truly blessed with special skills is beyond me also, but just fixing a sill?
i'm not disabled, just concerned about doing what seems to be structural and building envelope work correctly......since i moved in, put in french drain, replumbed my entire basement, reframed the interior of my garage, removed 2 walls, replaced the entire ceiling of my first floor, gutted the basement, removed a fireplace....etc.
oh, been there for 8 months....work about 70hrs/wk at my job. btw, it isn't worth my time in $, but i take pride in doing things myself.
i wise man once said, know your limits. "just fixing a sill" easier said. i hired guys to replace the entire hvac system....any advice about that?
Junkhound does have a point.=0)You can do it.I would suggest that the first thing you do is to take a bunch of pictures. Inside and out. Closeups, and farther away. Then start a thread to discuss it.The advice you get here, along with plenty of research otherwise, should give you enough information to go on, if yer even halfway handy.
Geekbox hero who once visited the glass city.
i wise man once said, know your limits. "just fixing a sill" easier said. i hired guys to replace the entire hvac system....any advice about that?
yeah you should have asked and you'd have known how to do the HVAC work...
p
am i in the wrong forum? is this the place for contractors to bash customers?
No John, I am sure we all appreciate good customers, and that there are bad contractors.
Actually, aside from the suspicion we get from bad contractors and their related horror stories, I appreciate bad contractors who do not show, do not return phone calls, do poor paperwork and craft work, and / or do not show up. They make me look that much better.
cheers....but your in texas. see, i figured out how the profiles work.good contractors are worth more than their weight in gold, i used to work for one. i hope the lousy contractors don't hurt your reputation, people tend to stereotype and i'm sure you don't deserve the tarnish.i wish you the best of luck.
i figured out how the profiles work
When you have a chance, how 'bout some info in yours? ;)
=====Zippy=====
Thanks dude, seems good work paysoff.
We recently finsished a home. It was a pre-sold custom, and we approached the HO about offering a discount or no charge extra / upgrade if we could have an Open House the weekend before move-in. results within three weeks...three new homes which are design / build. I get paid as a designeer for the plans and specs and then for the build out.
we izz perfeshanalls....... now, if my potential clients could only get used to my showing up for introductory meetings in purple Converse.
that's a riot, i wear sandals and shorts in the summer. i'm a commercial animation director.ties suck
ties suck
Yep, I am glad my genertation has grown up and is now (somewhat) in charge. Evidence of this is seen in the music for Cadlillac commercials....Led Zepllin.
Cadillac and Led Zepplin...who would have thunk it 20 years ago.
I just got back from Vegas....went out to see The Rolling Stones / MGM Grand / 3/4/06
Sandels and shorts works for me.
sounds like a good deal for you, this guy would more then likely be a real PITA.
You're probably best with out this job, though the greedy side of me would try to "make it worth our while" to deal with him again.