I’m trying to get a basement put in. Some background…
I’m in an area that has ground water at about 6′ supposedly.
The dirt is very heavy clay.
I’m on a bit of a hill (about 6′ up) in an area that is normally pretty flat – northcentral Ohio
I want 9′ tall ceilings because the basement will eventually be living area.
I want LOTS of windows for solar purposes.
I only need windows on the back (south) side of the house, but am putting one on the east and one on the west for ventilation purposes.
The basement will be poured, with “form-a-drain” around the outside draining to a sump in the basement. The backfill over the drain and around the basement will be 4′ of stone.
The house will be 1-1/2 story, cottage-style, with 9/12 roof. Board and batten. (My quaint little cottage plans got carried away).
Now…the question…
Since I’m SO leery of having a wet basement, and since I really want windows (and got a good deal on 4’x 3′ windows…..$37!) I’d like to put the basement at least 3 foot out of the ground. Actually, thinking of digging down about 5′, building the basement walls 9′ (4′ out of the ground) and then backfilling another foot higher than original ground level. That leaves 3′ out.
The person that I’m thinking of contracting to build the basement thinks that is a bad idea. He thinks it will look silly. Flat ground, no trees (had been a corn field), with a house sticking way up in the air.
I’m thinking I can build a wrap-around porch on the three sides that will disguise it. Maybe pergola roofs on two sides to help tie it down. And landscaping. The porch will also help insulate the exposed basement walls.
Another option is to bank the 3 sides with dirt. Of course, the house will still be sticking up, but the basement will be protected. Will still need a porch on the front to get to the door.
Other than that it might look silly (will it???), are there any reasons NOT to build it up out of the ground like this????
Thanks again,
Chris
PS. You can get an idea of where I’m trying to build by looking at http://www.tisawee.com It will show the barn that I just finished, and my chicken coop.
Replies
It will not look silly at all. You will have hundreds of different ways to deal with the small amount that it sticks out. In MI, they typically stick out above grade 18" minimum. That puts the bottom of the 2x10 joist a minimum of 8" above grade. The grades slopes away from the house another 12" or so.
Using your scenario, your house would be up an additional 6" from normal, which isn't noticeable at all.
The foundation walls are typically covered in brick from the grade up, so nobody really knows where the top of the basement wall is.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Actually, it'd be another foot higher..... 3 foot total still out of the ground, after it was banked a foot.
If it were a tri-level, or single story, it wouldn't look bad. But a 1-1/2 story? I thought about maybe bringing the wood siding down over the basement walls a bit on the sides and front to disguise it, too.
Any additional thoughts?
Yes, set your brick ledge at the one foot grade. Run brick up to the bottom of the windows...maybe a little lower. No one will know the differnce. If you are only going to run wood siding down with nothing hiding the foundation, then run the wood down to within 8" of the grade. That's how it's always been done in Metro Detroit. Done right, your house looks larger than a standard sized house. It would be worth more because of curb appeal. Around here in Austin, they'd leave the 3' of the foundation exposed. It looks like crapola. I don't understand why they can't find an extra $400 in their budget on a 400k house to hide the ugly foundation. It makes no sense at all to me. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I don't understand why they can't find an extra $400 in their budget on a 400k house to hide the ugly foundation. It makes no sense at all to me.
Well, partially, it's because they just tossed $2800 into the extra 'crete serving no purpose into the foundation.
Partially, because too many of them are "cookie cutter" plans and are built for speed, not quality, so, there's zero budget to properly design the plans on a per-lot basis.
Lastly, you have the "looks like everybody else's house--how could it be wrong?" thing going on . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
my house was two foot out of the ground but by sloping dirt from house to yard you cannot tell at all. you can add grade and the water table will still stay where it at right now. so place three feet out and slope a couple truck loads of dirt into the yard.
This house was built out in farm country. The basement forms were laid on grade. The entire basement was built above the natural grade....no digging anywhere.This provided a gravity feed to the engineered septic field. The fill for the basement came from the pond that was dug out back. It doesn't look like it was sticking too far out of the ground in any sense of the word. There is some fall from the house, but that is highly desireable in clay country. Also, sites that are flat are worth less than sites that have some character. Rolling sites are especially desired because they can be built easily with daylight basements and walkout basements. This house had a walkout basement. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Wonderful picture! You are right....it doesn't look out of place at all.
To clear up some things.... If I could afford a few thousand to do things "more correctly", I'd do it, but I'm building this myself...for myself. I'm a single grandmother and doing it on school secretary wages. Which means "not much". I'm paying cash as I go, and also learning as I go. I hope that I am learning ENOUGH that I don't make stupid mistakes that cost more to fix in the long wrong. Thanks to forums like this and homesteadingtoday, I think I'm doing OK so far.
I've already bought the land, put up a 30X50 barn (with physical help), built a taj-mahal chicken coop, put in the driveway, well, septic and electric (last 4 were contracted out). Gardens and orchards, too. All that is left now is the house. I've saved for the basement, and still have enough for the lumber for framing, with enough money left over for labor. I'm estimating 3 guys at 10 hour days at $15 (moonlighting) for 6 days to get it dryed in. My son is an experienced framer and has chosen a couple guys from various crews he has worked with that want to earn weekend cash, so that part is taken care of.
I'll do all the rest of it myself as I can afford to. Of course, it's taken 3 years to get THIS far, so I'm not going to hold my breath. <grin> I'm hoping to have it done in time to retire.
Too answer another question... I'm in north central Ohio. I believe frost depth is at least 3 foot. I know that footers are required to be 4 foot....that's why I'm doing a basement instead....doesn't cost that much more!
I'm not putting in porch footers when I do the basement because I'll design the porch later after I get a better idea of what the house looks like. Actually, it will be more of a deck than a porch.... the house has an airlock entry porch already included in the design, with a basement under it.
I know, you are shaking your heads and saying, "what an idiot"..... but I'll take pictures when I'm done and post them. I also write a column in a local newpaper about all my endeavors, and I have a lot of people rooting for me, so I can't let them down! Granny-power!!!! <grin>
I'm not shaking my head. Everything you said makes sense to me. We put the porch posts in later too. After all that backfill, we had to dig down to the virgin soil to make sure they were on solid footings.Your thought about putting in the basement because you are already down that deep is smart too. That is good value. Check into ICF construction and your son can do the basement too! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
"I know, you are shaking your heads and saying, "what an idiot"..... but I'll take pictures when I'm done and post them. I also write a column in a local newpaper about all my endeavors, and I have a lot of people rooting for me, so I can't let them down! "
ThaT IS NOT WHAT i WAS THINKING AT ALL - NOT BY A LONG SHOT!
I was inspired reading what you were writing. Ther eis an infectious confidence and sense of purpose there in your words that was making me know that you can and will do it.
BTW, I don't know and granny power, but I do know that knowledge is power and you have come to a good source.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Looking at your profile, it appears that you aren't exactly a spring chicken. When you talked about having the house way out of the ground, my first thought was "steps". It sounds like this is someplace you want to be at for a long time. Do you really want to be going up and down all those steps when you're 60 or 70 years old?I wonder if you could use the dirt from the excavation to slope the ground away from the house. That would shed ground water and help keep the basement dry. But then you wouldn't have to climb several steps to get inside.
Military intelligence is a contradiction in terms.
"That would shed ground water "Just to clarify - I'm sure you didn't mean what you said - that would shed rain water is all. Ground water does it's own thing according to the geology of the site.
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Listen to what I MEAN, not what I SAY.
(-:
Zsa Zsa Gabor, when asked which of the Gabor women was the oldest, said:
"She'll never admit it, but I believe it is mama."
""I also write a column in a local newpaper about all my endeavors, and I have a lot of people rooting for me, so I can't let them down!"" ""I'm estimating 3 guys at 10 hour days at $15 (moonlighting) for 6 days to get it dryed in. My son is an experienced framer and has chosen a couple guys from various crews he has worked with that want to earn weekend cash, so that part is taken care of. "" Some things are best not seen or talked about . Those who believe in paying taxes and doing things legally (license , bond , insurance etc.) may have some objection to that last part, and rightfully so.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
You are right about disclosing too much. No one knows where TisaWee is (and I don't want people knowing because then they'd also know that I have piles of materials out there, and am only there occassionally.) Although anyone with any computer savvy at all could figure it out by looking at tax records online.
Also, I wouldn't disclose what I pay for things, either.
But something you have said kind of bothers me. When I pay the guys, I assume they will report it. That isn't up to me, in any case. I know my son reports it, because I do his taxes! <grin> I've also paid sales tax on everything I've purchased, so I don't see any impropiety in any of this aspect.
As for "doing it legally"..... do you HAVE to hire people that are bonded, have insurance, and licensed, to be "legal"? I've paid the neighbor kid to shovel snow. I paid the grandkids to pick up stones from the field. I paid two guys to help with rafters on the barn ... cost me $48.75 in submarine sandwiches, cookies, chips and beer. Is "paying" them what makes it illegal? If they donated time to help me out (think...barnraising here), is that more legal??
Or is it illegal (and getting your goat? Love your tag line, by the way) because I'm taking jobs away from someone else that HAS insurance, is bonded, and is licensed.....but won't take on the job because it is too small and won't pay enough to make it worth their while to put up with an overly controlling woman who wants to know everything they are doing and make sure it is done correctly?
Actually, the guys that I have hired are currently out of work because their idiot GC hasn't lined up any other jobs yet. And I'm paying them about 25% more than they make from him. I just want to be fair with the guys! As for insurance, my property is insured if they would get hurt. If the building isn't done correctly (that's the bonding issue, isn't it?), then it will be MY fault since I'm the one in control and telling them how to do it. As for licensed.... doesn't that just mean you've taken a test and paid to have a piece of paper that says you are competent? I'm sure there are competent people out there that have never gone that route.
Please explain how I'm being illegal, because honestly, I don't see it. If I truly am, I will change it and I appreciate your candor in telling me so.
CC
Edited 4/13/2008 10:49 am ET by TisaWeeFarm
You are certainly within your rights to pay cash, which is still legal tender in this country. You don't need insurance or bonds. Those are personal financial tools that are designed to minimize your exposure to injury. If you have something to lose, then you might consider the various forms of insurance and legal contracts to protect and indemnify yourself. The license issue may or may not be a factor. Each state has their own rules for everything. Maybe in CA, you might need a license and permit to fart. Most everywhere else, homeowners can build their own without licenses, as you are doing. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
As in "cash", I meant a check. I'm not giving them cash-under-the-table.
You are correct. In this particular township, I didn't even need a building permit. It is the only township in the county, though, that doesn't require it. Not sure why, and may not be that way long. That's one other reason I'm trying to do this quickly.
I had to have permits for the well and septic, and have them inspected, however.
Even though there is no building permit required, there aren't any trashy homes anywhere. I can't think of a single mobile home in the area, although there is a modular the next lot down from me (a couple acres away). Most homes in the area are the "gentleman farmer McMansions". They probably weren't too happy when my chicken coop went up a couple years ago....
Edited 4/13/2008 11:02 am ET by TisaWeeFarm
The biggest real risk you face is if you are "employing" people to work for you. If you don't have worker's compensation coverage and an employee gets hurt, you are liable for lost wages, lost earning capacity, medical bills, pain and suffering, etc. Those damages are assessed even if the employee gets hurt entirely due to his own stupidity.
Your homeowners insurance will not cover such a problem.
I have a case now where my client, a home care worker, fell down the stairs and shattered her leg. 150K in medical bills. A year out of work. Permanent, partial disability. The homeowner who hired her didn't have worker's comp ins. She's looking at a high six figure problem. No defense to the suit, just an argument about damages.
Hiring a real framing sub, with insurance, will cost $$, but could save you a bundle.
Here in TX, they make everyone sign an independent contractor form.No OSHA interference, no coverage if someone gets hurt.Parkland Hospital gets to take care of all of the injuries (County Hosp) and taxpayers end up paying.Pete
I can't , and shouldn't , speak for Ohio laws regarding paying people to work for you building a house. What you are doing may well be perfectly legal there. But here in Ore. Yes it is illegal to hire unlicensed, unbonded and uninsured trade people. The list of those requiring licenses includes all the normal building trades as well as landscaping, etc. Here it is not illegal to pay cash no matter what their status.
It is illegal to pay someone as a subcontractor if they are not one legally. If You do then you are responsible for all of the associated taxes, withholdings etc. You are a contractor hiring labor. Both you and they could face legal action. If Ohio requires contractors to be licensed then hiring those that aren't in any manner that evades the legal responsibility of an employer is illegal. Again I don't know Ohio law. The # rants on the use of illegal/under the table help that have gone on in this forum is extensive. I will stay out of it from here on. I was just raising a point.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Here are four pictures of my own house. The first is the foundation walls right after stripping the forms, the next shows the foundation after backfill, and the last two are the (mostly) finished house. The excavation was about 42" deep.The lot was originally nearly flat (sloping up a couple of feet over 200-300'). Now it has a gentle hill in the middle.Eric
Just looked at Eric's pictures. Wow! That's inspiring. You can't tell at all that it is so high out of ground. I assume that is a walk-out basement?
One of the problems that I will encounter is that, although I have just over 3 acres, I've already put in the well, septic, and barn..... all of which are AROUND the perimeter of where the house will go. I can't change the grade TOO much because of those things. I can't cover the septic tank (I don't think) any more than it is.
My original plans when I put in the well and septic was to have a tiny, tiny cabin. So the well is on the south, septic on the north, barn on the west (to block winter winds which are horrid around here) and orchard on the east (so I can have a kitchen garden out the east door). That left me enough space in the middle for my 14x26 cabin with required set-backs to the well and septic. The cabin has "grown" since then, however, and will be tight in that space. I've still got minimum set-backs, but it will make the excavation trickier.
Making the house bigger used up the space I had hoped to have for a deck/patio out back, but I've figured out how to extend the back patio and not have to worry about the well cap. Since the top of the basement will be higher than the well cap, I'll just build the patio right over the top of it. I'll build raised seating along the edge that covers the well cap, with a hinged seat on the section that the well is under in case I need to pull the pump.
Additional benefit is that it by covering the well cap, it will keep me from bumping it with the bush-hog, like I did my septic distribution box covers. (Bush-hogs do nasty things to plastic covers, by the way).
Thanks again for all the advice. I'm off now to look up the difference in the foams. ICF, all the acronyms everyone is using.... I need to check it out. I know them as "the pink stuff, the blue stuff, etc." By the way, the foam around the basement walls is a good idea. I asked the basement guy and he said he could do it, but it was $2.25 a square foot for R-10 installed under ground level. That's $72 a sheet. I know I can buy some pretty good foam for less than $30 a sheet. I asked if I could just buy it and put it on myself before he backfilled and he said that was fine. He's going to be spraying some sort of waterproof stuff on it before that. Looks like tar to me.
CC
I like that look! And not every kid gets his own pile of rocks to play with in his sandbox! Think he might grow up to become a mason?
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Thanks. We found that digging a big hole and filling it with several tons of sand was no more expensive than a much smaller sandbox above ground. And as for my son, he already IS Mason!Eric
>> I'm in an area that has ground water at about 6' supposedly. << Sounds like a good thing to know for sure. A soils engineer can come out and bore test holes. Prices for that service might start at around $250 or $300. Personally I'd rather base my plans to spend - what - $100k to $150k - on facts, rather than hear-say.
Another thing to think about is how many steps you are going to have into the front door (front porch). Someone will be traversing those stairs several times a day for the life of the home.
Regarding windows in the basement - windows are good and many building codes require them in certain living spaces. They may have to be of a certain size though to meet egress requirements. I don't know the codes for Ohio though.
I'm a little confused... Is the part of lot flat where you want to build the house or does it have some fall on it?
Regarding basement drainage you might want to think about a sump pump inside the basement and another sump pit outside. Are the basement walls to be poured concrete or what?
BTW - what is the frost depth in your area - ie what is the minimum depth a foundation can be.
Also, it sounds like you are getting a little ahead of yourself... You are trying to get a basement put in but you are not sure what kind of porch the house will have? Normally the porch foundation would be installed at the same time the house foundation is...
Since you are down south - I might clarify a couple of your thoughts.
Being up off the ground is not a difficulty when it comes to walking up steps to the dorr in places where you have snow in winter. Instead, it can be an advantage.
Another that I am not sure if I understood your comments about - It odes seem that a house on a hill would have a lower ground water table - but I recently did a basement up on one of the highest points around, but found seepage at 2-3 feet down during a dry summer. So it is possible
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The water won't be a problem if she puts in a sump and pump and footing drains. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Absolutely.
I don't know if you recall my thread "Where's the cannonball?" or not, but that foundation was about three feet below spring level. There was a true stream running out of the bank after we excavated.
I used the same form a drain footing forms that she mentioend,then did all the right waterproofoing and backfill and leaders.
still perfectly dry inside.
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I didn't see that one. I might have been taking my hiatus. Over the years, we've framed on several high water situations. I remember one that filled with water up to grade! It's amazing how muWch water a sump system can move. I lived in a house where the sump pump kicked on every 15 minutes, every day of the year. We thought it would wear out the pump fast but our first one lasted ten years. I remember putting two in while I lived there for 20 years. It was an all sand lot in a county known for flat clay lots.I've got a lake lot that the neighbors claim has a spring running through it or off near the edge of the lot. If I ever build it (it's in MI), I hope I do find the spring. It's a sloped lot and I'll reroute the spring, bring it up to the surface with a pump if necessary, then use it for a waterfall. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Good point about the snow.
Regarding ground water, I fully understand how illusive it can be - that is why I suggested a soils engineer.
I think that contractor is silly
We do that in Maine with weet soils often.
We did the same in colorado when I was there.
it was exactly what I was going to suggest after reading the problem and befoire getting to you well thought out solution.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
You've gotten lots of great advise (and photos) suggesting that the elevated basement can work. So I'll just chime in on something that no one has mentioned yet, and that is exterior insulation for the foundation. Put in plenty, including under the slab. This is where extruded foam panels work beautifully. Current thinking is to design the basement so that it is within the insulated envelope of the entire house (especially important for the portion of the foundation that is above grade). Concrete has relatively poor thermal properties so make sure your foundation contractor knows his stuff in this regard.
Someone contracted with my subdivision's so called builder to take a lot in Phase 1 that was really only suited for slap construction to put in a basement and rake dirt into a grade in order to hide the basement on three sides. That was essentially 9' sticking out of the ground, caused a +30º incline for the driveway and then the little f-er bought another home in another subdivision and walked away from this one.
We call it the Castle on the Corner. Very out of place, very foreboding front, and something no one wants to buy. The foreclosure failed, the bank is stuck with it, and its not wanted at $100K below market value. My solution ... burn it down.
So, 2-4 feet doesn't seem unreasonable, but without reading the entire thread before replying I am curious as to the absolute necessity for the basement over just increasing slab area.
As to why I'd have a basement rather than increasing slab space...
The footprint of my cottage is only 24 x 36, with a loft upstairs. I have one bedroom (but two baths...go figure), so figured the additional space in the basement would be a necessity. For storage space, if nothing else. I can also get all of my mechanicals in the basement, too. Hence the big windows in the basement. There are five 4X3 windows and one 3x3 window. Hopefully will make the basement more inviting and liveable. I intend on staying there the rest of my life, but someday I hope one of my kids will want it and then they can put bedrooms or whatever down there.
Honestly, I own very little.... I'm not a packrat and hate having "stuff" that isn't necessary, but I do have exercise equipment which takes up space, and I have hobbies that come with all their assorted baggage.
"Castle on the Corner"... Hehehe. I guess I'm rather eccentric, too, but I don't want to be THAT obvious! I'd rather be known as the lady that has the old cottage with all the wildflowers, and chickens in the back yard, instead of the traditional, stately, two-story farmhouse you see around here.
Yes, you are right, I'm no spring chicken, but I think I'm in pretty good shape for my age. I just have to do things smarter, instead of stronger. Last year, I unloaded a wagonload of WET strawbales (for the garden and covering the acre of wildflowers) and could only manage one bale at a time. But I have an older Kubota tractor with a bucket. Ah! It worked. Just takes me longer.
I like the idea of banking the front and sides so that I have fewer steps, however. No matter how good I feel now..... age happens. Sigh. That's why I'm so frantically trying to get this done now. This has been in the planning stages for nearly 10 years, and I've noticed the change in my strength and endurance lately.
Thanks for all your responses! I was told that if I wanted good advice, to ask at the best forum. Looks like that was good advice!
Chris
My solution would be to lower the dirt and make the basement a daylight and a walkout. I'd get the big saw and start cutting windows into the basement. Natural light in basements makes them great living spaces. That house might make a great flip property. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
While I would tend to agree, this area doesn't seem to embrace the street-facing short-height basement windows idea. Its a walkout, but only on the rear. The grade is strange, at best, as we are talking a 10' elevation over 20-25'. Nuts.
You gotta make up your mind Nuke! I thought the basement stuck out 9'. Just scrape away some of the dirt and you could probably put 5' windows in front. Could you post some pics of the house? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Just lower the first floor window sills, and scale up those windows proportionately - will also help keep the look "small".
Keep 'em just high enough off the floor that you won't have to use tempered glass.
Forrest
The backfill over the drain and around the basement will be 4' of stone
That might be fine, but unless a soil test is done it might not be enough. Is this a seat of the pants plan or is it based on good info from actural test bores?
We have an area similar to what you describe and one lot might need nothing under the footers, just a good perimeter drain, while other areas are spec'ed at 6' of compacted crushed stone of various sizes in addition to the perimeter drain and a lot of other extra stuff to make sure the basement stays dry.
I'm not familar with a perimeter drain that is pumped from inside the basement. Locally we can't pump water from outside the foundation into the sewer system. We'd have two systems, one inside that pumps to the sewer and the perimeter drain that is pumped or gravity fed to either the surface or to a french drain with pump backup.
In real wet areas there may be two perimeter drains, one getting the majority of the water a half dozen feet from the foundation.
Essentially the basement is suspended up and in washed gravel and water is pumped out faster than it comes in. The design and cost can be mild to wild based on your conditions, but there is no reason it won't work with enough work.
Personally, I'd be the first person to raise the level of your house and recontour around it. Even a few feet can make a huge difference in what's needed to make your lot work. Again, a soil test is hard to replace in these situations.
For perimeter drains to work over the long run they have to be detailed correctly and don't skimp on the washed crushed stone.
Best of luck!
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Most of the houses around here are 3 feet or more out of the ground. Who cares what the contractor thinks!
Go for what you want.
Have a good day
Cliffy
Well, the basement is SUPPOSED to be dug tomorrow....we'll see if it happens. If I don't keeping lighting matches under the guy, nothing progresses.
He's not happy about it, but he's going to put it 5'6" underground (not counting the 8" footer) and 3'6" above ground, and then banking 2' of that on the front and sides. The back will stay clear for the entire 3-1/2 foot. He's also going to put plastic down (which he wasn't going to do).
Our biggest tussle right now is that I need to put a retaining wall on both sides before you get to the windows so that they stay open, and he's suggesting retaining wall pavers....or whatever you call them. I prefer wood (I hate cement-looking things). My thoughts were to drive 3 posts into the ground about 3-4' (about a 6-8' stretch?) and then stack and pin landscape timbers to the front of them so that the dirt will push against them and into the posts. They only need to be 2' tall. I'll have to decide SOON....maybe I'll look and see what's out there. With the house being natural wood board and batten, I just think concrete retaining walls will look terrible. Other options? Maybe cement blocks, but then face the exposed side with something? Cordwood??? (Now THAT would be cool....but I don't have the time nor the wood....)
Edited 4/15/2008 10:42 pm ET by TisaWeeFarm
Edited 4/15/2008 10:42 pm ET by TisaWeeFarm
You don't need a retaining wall. Just grade everthing gradually. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I think she is referring to a well around the egress windows.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yes, you are right. I can't just let it slope or it won't cover much...I'd rather have a retaining wall up to the windows. It only needs to be on one side, so I can't use window wells or anything like that.
Another question....
I looked at foam. There is extruded (the pink stuff) and expanded (white stuff). The white stuff is 1/2 the price for 2" sheets. If I'm putting it around the exterior of the basement, after they waterproof, but before they stone and backfill, will one work as well as the other? I suppose the pink is more water proof. If I use that, should I tape the seams somehow?
The basement guy told me to just use cap nails and tack the sheets into place. I hate driving nails into concrete....seems like I'm putting holes in something that I'm wanting to keep water out of! Can I use some sort of adhesive instead?
By the way, they DID start today! They started at 7:30 a.m., and when I got there at 12:30, they already had it dug, the sump hole dug, and most of the form-a-drain pegged into place. They were leveling it all when I left 1-1/2 hours later, and were supposed to pour the footer yet in the afternoon.
The exterior drain around the foundation will carry the water into the basement and into the sump hole, and then my pump will pump it back out and into a "curtain" drain that goes around my leach field. The curtain drain goes into a county storm sewer at the road. I'm not sure why I need to make arrangements to pump it IN instead of just making sure it stays OUT....but I was never good at physics anyway. Seems silly to me. If the basement is waterproof and dry, why pump exterior ground water IN?
Ok...that was 3 questions!
CC
The "white" foam is expanded polystyrene and will absorb water like a sponge. The water will then negate any insulation value the foam has when it is dry. Do not use it below grade on the exterior of the foundation.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Ah, I was afraid of that. Is it any good inside a wall? I mean, if I can't afford to have walls sprayed with foam, could I get the same results by using 4" of white styrofoam, and "great stuff"ing the seams. Of course, that'd probably cost nearly as much as having it sprayed, maybe.
Thanks for the info. The pink stuff is on sale this week for $20 a sheet (2"), so I guess I better stock up. Do you think I need to seal the seams for below grade purposes?
CC
I never have. Water proof the concrete with a membrane , use either washed rock and lots of it to create a "lens" for water to drain down to the drain pipe or use a foundation membrane that is made to create the same draining effect. I generally stand the foam up and temporarily hold it in place just at the top. Foaming the seams is optional. Back fill will hold it in place permanently. A 2 x stick hung on tie wire off the anchor bolts will hold the foam while backfilling is done.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I prefer extruded. Waterproof and denser against pressures underground. Doesn't break as easy when handling it or when wind comes upTo attach it to the walls, get a foam spray gun and cans of foam.( same thing as great stuff in the disposable cans except that it goes a lot further and the gun lets you control the flow) Spray a few dabs on the foam, slap it into place and use a couple sticks to hold it there for five or ten minutes and the foam is glued on. Then the backfill will hold it in place permanently.I do not like running the exterior ware into the interior sump. when the power is out, you are asking for a flood that way. The only time that is acceptable is if the lot has absolutely no way that you can trench and lead the perimeter drainage off to daylight. That way, you have reasonable confidence that gravity will not break down and fail you. Even if not to daylight, and exterior drywell or sump pit are options
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That is what I have. The concrete is exposed about three to four feet on three sides, and fully exposed on the alley side of the house as a walkout. Porches and decks on the other three sides.
Looks fine from the street.
If I were to change anything, it will be to replace the wooden decks on the front with a concrete deck, (with a flagstone surface), and another concrete wall with a field stone facing to make another garage accessed off the alley under the deck.