I know there’s areas where basements probably work without big problems, and areas where you would never consider them, but what about the transition zone?
With the discussions around here on modern building practices sometimes being an improper continuation of “that’s how we always did it” I have been wondering if we’re expecting too much of basements?
For example, if you have to use a sump pump to keep a basement dry, are you forcing things too much? We have friends who were gone and both sump pumps failed. They got 3 feet of water in their basement.
There’s a discussion elsewhere on the board about the proper way to set drainpipe around the basement. The trend is obviously one of the basement being a living space (has been for decades, even centuries, I know), but are basements built for that over the long haul? Will the drains always drain? Will the waterproofing hold?
Are we going from root cellar to living space without enough change in building style or are the problems you hear about with basements the standard maintenance stuff you get in any of the housing systems?
Replies
Basements are a large part of the work I do.
On every one, I advise the people that it is not a good idea.
Then they say to do it anyway.
I guess if people had any sense I'd be competing with a lot more unemployed boatbuilders.
Was kinda wondering if it was part of the McMansion trend. More space, least amount of money.
in the midwest, its pretty much a need for a tornado and big storm hideout.
Can't recall how many times as a child we huddled up in the corner of the basement during a monster storm.
Sure beats having to climb down into an old wizard of oz style cellar!
When in doubt, get a bigger hammer!
They want a "livin' room" that nobody lives in, a "dinin' room" nobody dines in, a "gourmet kitchen" nobody cooks in.
In my dad's day, cellars were for coal, and root vegetables.
TRIGGER said:
63944.4 in reply to 63944.3
what exactully does thAt meaNMR SPHERE i CHALLENNGE YOU INTECIIUPLECFTUZAL DRAMAQ RUIGHJ5 NOW BBITYCH
Mike, why isn't it a good idea? Is it the location, grade, soil, or something less tangible? With the exception of an early problem of grading, my basement has been dry--knock on wood--for the past 3-4 years. Of course, its a daylight/walkout basement and not one where all walls are below grade.
The ground in my area has a lot of activity (water).
We did a basement last year that had two pumps that ran almost constantly. When we busted out the floor to rough in the bath, had to use a trash pump to keep the hole clear until we got the lines in. There was literally a creek running under the place.
TRIGGER said:
63944.4 in reply to 63944.3
what exactully does thAt meaNMR SPHERE i CHALLENNGE YOU INTECIIUPLECFTUZAL DRAMAQ RUIGHJ5 NOW BBITYCH
For what it's worth, Frank Lloyd Wright hated basements. I'm not liking ours too well right now--darn foundation is settling and everything upstairs is cracking. Got a crack at the corner of a door I can about stick a pencil through. But these people put the basement in clay. Didn't bother with good support under beams and so forth, so now I'm trying to jack things up and put posts under. Nothing but fun.
Basements, hell, what about attics (at least in those houses that were stick built)!!!
Every house needs a Steven King room (you know, the one where you're afraid to open the door 'cause of all the stuff in there)....
Had a good client way back, over seven years we did...the basement....then the attic....then the addition...finally turned the detached garage into an excercise room, & said see ya!
In all seriousness, any building is a temporary bulwark against the elements....shoot, even caves probably had problems...
Mind you, good engineering & original design intent help...my basement stairs run down perpendicular to one of the steel beams...good thing I'm short, but I spend a fair amount of time just looking at it, thinking about how I could "head off" the steel & get it up into the floor joist plane at the stairwell....
I'm not saying they don't serve a purpose. It just seems to me that we're trying to make them serve more than they're designed for.Commercial buildings have below-grade floors that work just fine. It's doable, just seems smarter to design for more use or use them as designed.
When designed and constructed properly from the start it can be good value. They are cool in the summer and easy to heat in the winter. They may not be the most pleasant space for a dramatic bedroom, but great for a children's play room or a workshop. It can be rugged space the kids cannot easily destroy. And a good place to keep the furnace and water heater (and for some the laundry).
The must is to keep the basement dry with proper construction details. I think it is also important to have a full 8' high ceiling. Skimping on the ceiling height makes it feel too enclosed.
I think if the basement can't be kept dry without a sump pump then it is not a good location for one. And trying to retrofit living space into a basement that was never properly moisture proofed from the outside when constructed is also asking for trouble.
And I guess that was what got me started thinking, that if you're dependent on a sump pump then you're pushing too hard.
Moisture issues aside (and frost-protected footings ignored):
Basement economics are better and better the farther north you go. The frostline in my neck of the woods is about 4' down--so by the time you dig for footings you have the first half of the basement already excavated--might as well keep digging.