This is a re-posting (with some edited writing) of a bath floor/remodel job that I posted a few years back. Gunner asked me if I could repost this. I thought it might be a good idea because this topic comes up often here at BT.
Now remember that this is not Fine Homebuilding, nor is it Fine Remodeling. It is a repair job in line with what an awful lot of us here actually do for a living. It is also a good source for information and idea sharing with DIYers and homeowners alike.
I am going to post this whole thread the best way that I can. It is going to take a little while, so please be patient. There are a lot of pics, and chances are that Taunton won’t allow me to post them all (size limitations), but there are ways around this. If a different poster name comes up, it will still be me. I’ll sign the bottom of each post with my name.
There are a few pics missing from the order, but I will come back later and add them in. They are located in a different place than my computer, and I have to go get them and load them in.
On with the info! (See next Post)
James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys…. Still dies!
“For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?” MARK 8:36
Replies
This house is a rental property owned by my brother, and because it is a rental property, costs involved in the repairs are being kept at a minimum, with quality of structural repairs being foremost. Cosmetics is where the reduction in costs will come from. Bath is 5 x 7, so it is small.
The initial complaint was that the toilet was leaning, leaking, and had trouble flushing. First thing I found was the floor was spongy, the tub surround (laminated hardboard panels) had rotted out, and the window sill had rotted. The toilet had the hold down bolts in place, but no nuts. The caps were in place, but no nuts!!! No wonder the toilet leaked, and leaned.
This first pic is of the damage I found after I removed the toilet. The waste pipe is lead, and the drain for the tub ties into the waste drain. In the tub drain pipe, right at the opening into the waste pipe, I found about 2' (that's FOOT, not inches)of a fishing pole end. Eyelets and all. Evidently, the renters had tried to unclog the tub drain at some point with a fishing pole, and lost the end of it. SIMPLY AMAZING some of the things I find.
Anyway, got the underlayment pulled up (1/4" hardboard) and the floor around the tub is rotted, and real wet. Shame too, cause it is 1" oak strip flooring, covered by the underlayment and rot. Tub has got to come out, as well as surround and vanity (to gain access to floor). I have a feeling I am gonna find some real rotten studs behind the surround, and wet insulation. All of that will have to come out too.
In this particular bathroom, the window is located inside the shower area. This a real no-no unless the window framing has been waterproofed. This one hadn’t been. The window will have to come out also. The window frame/jambs/sill are all wood, and all are rotten.
James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Here's a pic of the surround area. The tub surround here (and very common here) is laminated hardboard. This stuff has the life span of almost nothing, especially with renters. The hardboard failed (especially at the seams) and let water get into the wall cavities and down on the floor.
James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Edited 2/2/2005 1:05 am ET by James DuHamel
Well, here is some more pics and descriptions for ya. Damage wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.In the first pic, I have removed the hardboard surround, all the trim, and have found 2 1/4" x 3/4" tongue and groove boards attached to the inside of each wall in the bathroom. The entire home is built this way. BOTH sides of each and every wall have these tongue and groove boards. The problem here is that the bathtub was set BEFORE the tongue and groove boards were installed, so they have to come off in order to get the tub out. In some of the photos that you'll see, I have cut out the tongue and groove boards in sections. I am not going to replace the front and back sections, but I will be putting some back on the side wall, under the window area. I do not want to decrease the structural integrity of the exterior wall (with the window) any more than I have to, so the t & g boards will go back here. The front and back of the tub have these t & g boards on the OTHER side of the walls, so I will leave them off, and install greenboard here (as well as on side wall). Also shown is the window, minus the trim and sill. The front and side walls are also shown.
James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Edited 2/2/2005 1:07 am ET by James DuHamel
OK, how about some pics for the previous post (lol)James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Next pic is of the shower head connection. As you can see, it is pvc. I REALLY do not like pvc for this connection. It makes it too limber to suit me. I will remove all of the tub/shower valves and pvc plumbing (above floor line) and go back with copper. As I do this, I will show you a few tricks I use to make it a bit easier, and to get water back into the house as soon as possible.
Getting water back on, and a useable toilet each night is an important part of this job. The renters have 2 small children, and this is the only bathroom/toilet in the house. For a few days (over the weekend) the renters will be gone, and I won't have to worry. Come Monday morning though, I need to get myself in a position to where I can set the toilet each night before we leave. This will require a few wax seals for the toilet, and numerous pulls/installs of toilet. James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
This pic is of the tub/shower valve setup. I REALLY hate pvc connections like these. The valve is leaking profusely, so I will replace it all. Have I mentioned how bad I hate PVC fittings and pipe for this type of set up? The front wall (where the plumbing is) was installed AFTER the side wall (window wall). The side wall is the exterior wall of the home, and the entire wall was covered with the
t & g boards before ANY interior walls were installed. ALL of the interior walls that connect to the exterior wall just butt it. Reminds me a lot of mobile home construction. There's also a full view of the tub and walls.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
The next pic is important. Please pay close attention here.I have removed some of the front and back t & g boards, but before I did, I CAREFULLY cut the bottom boards on both front and back of tub area. Then I took an inspection mirror and (use a POWERFUL one) flashlight and looked up into the cubby holes where the recip saw blade would be cutting. I wanted to be absolutely sure no plumbing, and no electrical was located in the path of the blade. Once I determined that the cavities were empty, I proceeded to cut the boards. I used the edge of the paneling on each end as a guide. I also had safety glasses on (with side covers) and used a respirator. Whenver i cut into older walls like this, the dust and trash is thick and heavy. PROTECT YOUR EYES AND LUNGS!This pic shows some of the boards removed after I cut them, and shows the valves (plumbing) a bit better.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
This is a better view of the tub/shower valve setup. It's coming out.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Now for the rotten floor boards.The floor turned out to be 1" wide oak flooring, installed on top of 6" t & g subfloor. The subfloor was installed at an angle. This makes for a VERY sturdy floor system.Water got trapped between the floor layers (under the tub) and caused some rot. The bottom of the drain on the tub was so rusted and pitted that it could no longer hold a seal. Every time the bath was used, water poured on the floor under the tub.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
This is the subfloor. It got pretty wet, and the joist under the drain is pretty rotten. It will get cut out, and a new joist sistered in place. This pic also shows some of the lead plumbing that will be coming out.
James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Edited 2/2/2005 1:49 am ET by James DuHamel
this is the drain areaJames DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
This is a pic of the drain line (2" iron pipe) that I will tie the new drain plumbing into. The rusted pipe in the pic (above ground) is the gas line. Very typical, and very common to see them in this kind of shape around here. One more reason I don't want gas at my house.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
This pic shows the window removed. I pulled the whole window, and am going to repair it in the shop. I will replace some rotten wood on the assembly, and seal it completely on the exterior side. It will be weatherproof. I will also install aluminum foil on the inside of the window panes so that you cannot see inside the glass. There is a reason for this.First part of the reason is that the interior wall is going to be completely enclosed. It will be covered with t & g boards, and greenboard. A new tub surround will be installed, and for all practical purposes, the window will not be there. It will be completely sealed on the inside. The foil is there so that no one can see (from the outside) that the window has been covered up. Second part of the reasoning and tactics used is the fact that by leaving the window and exterior trim in place, the house still has that symetrical and aesthetic look that several windows, all the same size, and evenly spaced give a home. If I were to remove the window and install exterior siding in the hole, the house would look funny.The foil is being used because the area that the home is located in is heavily populated by refinery shift workers. It is a very common site to see foil in the windows to block out sunlight, and make the room darker. This makes it a bit easier for shift workers to sleep during the day. By doing all of this, no one will ever know that the window has been incapacitated, and covered up on the inside. Everything will look normal on the outside of the house.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
The first pic is the new treated joists I installed. I added a few for extra support under the tub area. Also added some strength to the area around the toilet stack.I sistered in a new joist beside the rotten one (one closest to the tub valves) and then cut off the rotten section of the old joist. I did it this way because the ground is extremely wet and muddy. If I tried to set a temp support in place, it would have sunk. So I improvised and did it this way. That is the thing about remodeling and repair work - no two jobs are the same. Lots of iprovising and propblem solving going on. Makes for an interesting career.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Here is the subfloor I installed. This is NOT ordinary BC plywood. It is called BB Plyform, and it is saturated with oil (pressure treated at 95 psi). I LOVE this stuff for bathroom floors because it repels water like liquid off a duck's back. It is used a lot around here for truck bed liners. It lasts forever.The next layer of subfloor will be the same product. I have to make up two layers of 3/4" flooring. #30 felt paper will go between the layers. Under the tub area, there will be no underlayment or finished floor surface. Where the new vinyl flooring will be installed must have an underlayment of some kind. BB Plyform is not a good choice for underlayment in this situation. The oil interferes with the adhesion of the flooring adhesive.
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<!---->There is also a pic of the APA stamp for the BB Plyform. This stuff costs about $20.00 a sheet, so it is cheaper than treated plywood.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Here is where I had to tie into the 2" iron drain line. The old lead connection had the bathtub drain connected to the soil stack. Height restrictions nixed the use of a 4" T with a 2" reducer. The fitting was taller than the height available. So, I tied into the 2" drain line underneath for the tub.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
This is a pic of the cut off valves that I installed for the tub/shower valve lines. I use these on ALL shower/tub valve replacements that I do. I do this because it allows me to quickly cut off the water to the house, remove the valve assembly, install the cut off valves on the lines, and get the water turned back on fast. This allows the homeowner to have water for the kitchen, and the toilets. Because these types of valves make for easy, fast connections, I leave them in place and install the new copper supply lines directly into them. I have never had one leak, not even a single drop of water in all the time I have been using them.
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Included is a pic of the type of toilet and vanity/kitchen sink cut off valves that I love
to use. It is a 1/4 turn ball valveJames DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
This is a pic of the pipe sealant that I use. I have had leaks before with teflon tape, but I have never had a leak when using this pipe thread sealant. Needless to say, I no longer use teflon tape.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Notice the color of the studs. These are called <!----><!----><!---->Temple<!----> <!---->Purples<!----><!---->. They are from a company called Temple-Inland. They are very unique in color, and the neat part about them is that the ends are dipped (soaked actually) in parafin. This prevents water from wicking up when the floor gets wet. They are also kiln dried, and straight as an arrow.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
The first pic shows a sort of "trough" I constructed. I built it for a reason. Remember that this bathroom is in a rental property, and the object is to try and "renter proof" the bathroom as much as possible. I built the trough by laying a double layer of 2 x 4's flat, then installing #30 felt in the trough area. It is a one piece deal, with the corners overlapped and sealed tight. The floor has a small slope toward the drain end, and I sealed the edges of the plywood subfloor there very carefully. If there is ever a water leak under the tub area, it will flow through the drain opening in the floor, and out onto the ground. Not a great thing, but much better than it flowing all over the bathroom floor, and causing damage. Since the tub has a styrofoam pad on the bottom, I had to construct a small platform for the tub to sit on, and keep it off the floor. It is made of treated 2 x 4's, and BB Plyform. It is immune to rot.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Here's the platform in the troughJames DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Here's a pic of the shower valve assembly.
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And another pic showing the shower riser (copper with brass winged elbow)James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Here's the window hole covered with BB Plyform. James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Here's a pic of the tub in place. The small boards on the edges are there to hold the tub in place, and level. The renters (family of 5) must use the tub like it is. I braced it a bit until I can get the wall coverings in tomorrow. VERY UNORTHODOX, but necessary.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
This pic shows the #30 felt that I layed on the floor. It goes between the two layers of subfloor, and the underlayment.The use of felt between the underlayment and subfloor here is very common. The house is on beam and piers, and the crawlspace below is open. This allows VERY humid air to circulate. The felt is to help protect the bottom of the underlayment from moisture laiden air infiltration.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Here is a pic of the underlayment installed. Notice that it is Hardi Tile Backer (1/4" thick). I have never used this product for an underlayment for vinyl flooring, but the owner was wanting to try it out. I contacted James Hardi Corp. about using it this way, and they said "Go for it". They said that it is commonly used for this type of application. We'll see how it turns out. I may be pulling the underlayment and installing something else if it doesn't work right. I figure I'll at least try it.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
This is a pic of how I treat the walls and corners of the tub area with #30 felt paper. The idea is to get the corners reionforced, and to direct any water that gets by the surround and the drywall back into the tub, instead of down the wall cavity.I first install a strip of felt on each corner (front and rear of tub area). I then install felt on front, side, and rear walls. The corners, and bottom row of each of the walls has the felt overlapping the lip on the tub. This way, when water gets past the first two barriers (surround and drywall) it has nowhere to go except back into the tub. The ideal situation is that the surround and drywall will be sealed well enough that no water gets behind them in the first place, but reality is that sometimes it does. The trick is to start at the framing, and waterproof each successive layer of materials applied to the wall. This makes water leaks into the wall cavity less likely, and less destructive if unnoticed for a while.
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Another view (front of tub)To reinforce this front corner, I overlapped the front pieces around the corner. This corner gets the most water, and I felt like a double layer in the corner would beef it up a bit.
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One more view of the felt (whole tub area)I only worry about running the felt a bit higher than the shower head. Water damage from the shower ABOVE that area is highly unlikely, even for a bad renter.
James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Edited 2/2/2005 2:42 am ET by James DuHamel
Here is some water resistant drywall installed on the back wall. I use a small piece of 1/4" plywood to shim the drywall up away from the tub edge. I apply a clear sealant under the drywall edge, and fill the small void. This seals off the drywall and prevents water damage. It will get sealed again when the surround is installed.
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There's also a view of the drywall on the side wall.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Here's a pic of the front wall after the shims have been installed.I installed the shims on each stud of the tub area, and just outside of it. The goal here was to shim the studs out ernough to make the new drywall flush with the old paneling still installed on part of the bathroom wall. The 1/8" paneling was installed over a 3/4" T & G wall, so I had to use 3/8" plywood shims, plus the 1/2" drywall to get the 7/8" thickness necessary to come out flush. I will install a small piece of flat trim on each seam (between drywall and paneling)James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Here is a pic of the drywall installed on side and back walls of tub area. Notice the tight fit between the two walls (in the corners). This seam is gonna get sealed with a clear sealant instead of taped and floated. The reason is two fold -
1. because I need to make sure the corner seam is watertight, and -
2. the tub surround will be covering the seam anyway, so it won't show. Cuts down on time, labor, and cost (if hiring it out instead of doing it yourself) Once it is finished, you will never know that it wasn't taped and floated.Amd a small piece of drywall will get installed in the void you see. I had not installed it when I took the pic.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Here's a pic of the tub surround after it has been installed. It is a three piece Triton surround. I hate these things with a passion, but it is what the client ordered. Once the surround is in place, I seal the bottom edges with Lexell White sealant. This is the third layer of sealant that is in place to prevent water penetration into the wall cavity. These surrounds are a breeze to install. Took less than 30 minutes to install the entire thing, cutouts and all.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
The next pic shows the corners of the drywall in the shower area (before the tub surround is installed). These corners have been sealed with Lexell Super Clear sealant. The sealant is the second layer of protection against water infiltration into the wall cavities.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
The next pics are of the vinyl flooring getting installed.The first thing I do is to make a pattern of the perimeter of the floor with some cardboard. Once I have the pattern just like I want it, I use it to lay out the vinyl. I cut the vinyl, then dry fit it to make sure it is a good fit.I make absolutely sure the floor is swept, swept again, and then vacuumed. Then I take a damp (not wet) cloth and wipe the underlayment down. I then install the vinyl on the floor. Next I pull back half of the vinyl and apply flooring adhesive to the underlayment. Follow the directions of the adhesive when applying. I use Armstrong adhesive, and it must set up for about 20 minutes before the vinyl is laid back down. Once down, I raise the other half and repeat the process. I use a 1/8" notched trowel to apply the adhesive (as per manufacturer's recommendation). Use whatever sized notch is recommended for the adhesive you use.Once down, I use my hand to smooth out the floor, and make sure it is laying flat. Then I use a rolling pin (just like momma's) and roll out from the center to the edges. I keep rolling until I no longer have any air bubbles, or bumps of adhesive. The floor is now flat and smooth, and your arms and hands are cramped and tired .I use lighter fluid (naptha) to clean up the floor of any adhesive residue, and wipe it down with a clean rag. I then take a damp rag and wipe the floor down again.
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There's also a pic of the floor glued down and ready for the toilet, vanity, and trimJames DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Here is the toilet and vanity installed
<!----><!----> <!---->James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
On the front and back wall, where I installed the new drywall, there are a couple of seams on each wall that must be taped and floated. Here is a pic of the back wall seams after they have been taped. Front looks the same, so I'll skip that pic.James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Now we get to the window opening. I had removed the window, and sealed up the wall in the bathroom where the window was. For the outside, I sealed the hold with #30 felt and roofing cement (to seal the seams, corners, and glue it all down). This holw will be weathertight.
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<!---->I do not have pics of the window installed, but I had to rebuild the window, jamb, and frame. I tried the best I could to salvage the window pieces and just rebuild and replace what was damaged, but it was all pretty rotten. So, I just rebuilt the entire window from scratch. I used treated lumber. I primed the window unit with Zinsser brand Bullseye 1-2-3 primer (two coats), sealed all seams and crevices with Lexell Super Clear sealant, and installed aluminum foil on the interior of the window (to block out the sun, and make the window look like it is an operational window). The exterior trim (treated 1 x 4’s) were primed (all 6 sides), and painted, then installed and touched up. James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
I finished floating the drywall seams in the bathroom, and textured the walls. I installed the transition trim (flat piece) on the seam between the drywall and the paneling. The renter primed and painted the interior of the bathroom (for a reduction in the coming month’s rent).
So, that's all for this project!James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Thanks for posting this, it is great info. Wish I had known about those studs before I did framing for my bathroom, several of my studs were rotted away from water damage.I have a question about your waterproofing of the tub surround area. Specifically your decision to put felt paper behind the (fiberglass I guess) tub surround. I would worry about the two layers forming a "moisture sandwich" that might give rise to mold eventually. I'd worry about another layer of sandwich with the DW except I know DW is *not* waterproof. I've mainly researched tiled tub surrounds which have 15# felt, CBU and tiles. The only layer here that's impermeable is the felt, tiles may permeate and even with porcelain tiles the grout will permeate. I'm talking here about water vapor, not the flooding you're preparing for.I'm planning on tiling with Schluter Kerdi, which is impermeable, so I'm forgoing a VB to avoid the moisture sandwich. I went with foam board insulation in the stud bays, relying on its relatively small permeability to allow any small moisture leaks behind the Kerdi to dry to the exterior (dew point in foam etc).I have a CI tub that sits on legs so I can't duplicate your trough, but I'll steal whatever ideas I can from this thread...
I do not worry about the water vapor building up and forming a moisture laden area between the drywall and the felt paper. The drywall, once sealed (corners sealed, and primed and painted) will not allow moisture to permeate enought to cause a problem, even in our high humidity area.
It is no different than having nothing but open wall cavity, or insulation behind the drywall. You will have a sandwich between the two layers of whatever material you use. James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
bumpJames DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
bump
James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Why don't you ask the Sysop to move this thread to the photo gallery.It will stay on top longer there.
Good stuff, much like the problems I too run into with renter bathrooms. Thanks for taking the time to repost it all.
Yep that's exactly what I'm looking for. I've got it bookmarked in my favorites. The size and layout are identical to mine.
Thank you very much for putting that all back together, It's definatly a classic thread.Who Dares Wins.
James- From the pics, it looks like your valves are grey plastic. In NY, and other areas surely, they aren't approved. I've always used brass. It's harder to deal with, but better material. I think you said you've had luck with them - I 've got one in a home I own (in VA) that's gone after less than 5 years. Like I said, I'll go with the metal.
Don
These valves are actually better quality than they might seem. They carry a lifetime warranty, and I have some that have been in service for 15 + years.
It is extremely rare, if ever, that these valves need to be turned off and on afte the initial work on the bathrub/shower unit. Because of that, they are basically just an open line. They really come in handy for the quick turn off of the water to the tub area while I'm working, and then getting the water back on again quickly to the rest of the house. Plus, they fit the 1/2" PEX, copper, and cpvc lines perfectly (that's what they are made for). If I have all the time in the world, and the budget allows me to remove and replace the entire supply lines with copper or PEX, then I usually use standard 1/4 turn supply valves.
The thing about repairing and remodeling older homes like this is the fact that ya gotta improvise a lot. Things that must be done may not be orthodox, and sometimes they have never been tried. Makes it all kinda exciting. James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
I have another more general question, for the broader Breaktime audience:
Why use greenboard?
I'm serious, I can't figure out what it's point is. I've heard that ordinary DW is smoother and stronger, and GB once it gets wet becomes soft. So whereas a HO expects GB everywhere in a bathroom, a contractor would rather minimize its use to high moisture areas like the shower area.
But the use of GB in a shower area (behind tiles) is a disaster waiting to happen. Once any water gets back there, the wall is shot (this is one of the many failures in my bathroom). The proper material for the shower area is CBU, which doesn't wick (as much) and survives getting wet.
I've been told that GB was originally sold as backing for tiles. Even though people know now that's a mistake, people still use it in high-moisture areas out of habit more than anything else.
Speaking as someone who obtained a pile of GB for his bathroom before hearing this stuff...
GB is simply "Water Resistant" drywall. It is not waterproof by any stretch of the imagination, but it is water resistant.
It should not be placed in direct contact with water, which placing it as the only backer behind tile in a shower will do this once moisture has found its way past the tiles (cracks in grout, unsealed seams and crevices, etc...) The areas above and outside of the tile, or above and outside the tub enclosure can be painted and sealed to help protect it, but these areas usually do not see direct contact with water.
Because a bathroom is a very high moisture area, water resistant drywall is the recommended wall covering (verses standard drywall).
In my experience, I have never found water resistant drywall to be any different in strength, and is just as smooth as standard drywall. I have never found it to be rough in finish at all.
And any drywall, once it gets wet, will turn to mush.
A good contractor uses designated products where they are required, and needed. I have never met one that would NOT use water resistant drywall in laundry rooms, bathrooms, and any other high moisture content rooms.
Just my humble opinion...James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
Just to try to get some discussion going...."In my experience, I have never found water resistant drywall to be any different in strength...."The admonishment *never* to use GB for ceilings suggests there is something there, perhaps stiffness rather than strength. Then if the ceiling is going to be ordinary DW anyway (or sag-resistant or Type X), is there any point in using GB for the walls? Wouldn't one prefer the walls to be stiff as well?I'll probably use GB for walls, and I've got sag-resistant for ceilings, I'm just trying to puzzle this out...
I've always used GB for ceilings in baths, when I am installing it. If I am doing a remodel, and the ceilings are intact, I usually leave them that way.
Here's a pic of a job I am currently working on. If the drywall is nailed/screwed properly, there won't be any sagging. I use 1 x 4's on the ceiling joists, spaced at 12" intervals. I've never has a problem. James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
oops. Here's the picJames DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
bump
James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com