Hi! 9 years ago my husband and I had an Andersen Bay window installed in our kitchen in front of our sink. The window starts about a foot above the counter space.
We would like to keep the bay but lower the bottom of it so that the counter can continue into the window. We don’t want a bigger (taller) bay b/c of privacy issues – I would just like a little more counter space.
The window is well installed and is held by cables from above. We did not install the window and have done only finish carpentry on our home.
Question: Can we keep the window and remove the bottom wood and have a new bay shaped bottom and solid sides (perhaps with bottom exterior brackets?) Do we need to leave a little 3 inch or more “shelf” of the original window bottom (on the exterior) for stability. Do you think a contractor would do this? or that novices like us might take this on. (We are planning a stone countertop so the bottom will need to bear some weight)
thanks for any help
Replies
Not necessarily easy. There may be electrical and plumbing in that one foot of wall space. I'd bet on there being a vent in there for the sink. If this is a prefab bay unit, there are some issues if you try to tear out the bottom. No way to tell how hard until you do some exploratory surgery. I would not rate this as being an easy do-it-yourself project. A creative contractor should be able to do it. Don't expect a fixed price quote. Time and materials on this one.
I think raising the counters might be easier....kiddinggggggg.
If it were me I'd call an Anderson techy
BE well advised
andy
"My life is my practice"
that sounds simple enough. Anyone with a firm understanding of siding techniques will have about a days work to wrap it up. I'll bet the vent pipe goes horizontal until it gets outside the king studs of the window header so I wouldnt think that would be in the way. You may have to move a couple of wires that power the plugs above the counter though.
Either way whatever mechanicals you need to alter could be taken care of from outside since you will be taking down siding anyway. if you have to move electrical the easiest way might be to cut the wire and add a plug/juction box netting you an extra power point.
There are no structural members under a window. If you plan carefully you could probably make all cuts from outside and complete that project without removing your sink base cabinet.
Edited 4/13/2004 4:23 pm ET by maverick
that sounds simple enough
You think so? I really don't think it sounds easy at all. I think it sounds easy to void Anderson's warranty. Or damage the structural integrity of the window. I've been wrong before, but I'd think real hard and look real close before taking on a job like this.
You've also just put it in this homeowner's head that it should only take a day or they are getting ripped off. Wouldn't want to be the contractor that comes along to have a look at that job now.
Edited 4/13/2004 7:04 pm ET by dieselpig
I think a day or so is accurate. I have to admit I have a helper as useless as he is. Hes good for running and clean-up.
what warrantee issue? the window is supported by andersons cable system and it doesnt have to be removed. the only work is below the window.
some one suggested start with a new bay unit. Thats crazy. eventually you get back to the point where you have the same size window in the opening and you have to lower the floor.
The vent cannot kick off horizontal until above the rim of the sink. Not a trivial problem to fix. Needs a loop vent or Studor if allowed. Jack studs support the window from below. I suppose those are just for decoration rather than structural members. Cut the electric and patch in an outlet? Where's it going to go? In the granite counter? What if there are light circuits?
I'd probably frame a bay starting from the sill. That would give adequate support to the window and counter. Change the look somewhat. Cut out siding and sheathing below. Frame the bay first to support the window, cut out the old sill. Frame the new one. One day demo and framing. One day plumbing and electric. A day for insulation, siding and flashing. Half day for interior trim. Plus or minus a day, plus time to get matching siding, etc. Could be harder if anything strange turns up. Assuming you want a nice job. Somebody offers to do it in a day for $300, get a couple more quotes.
thanks for the replies - I guess I need to give you some additional information. The bay window is only 4 feet at its widest point (the part that is bordering the sink).
We have no outlets in the area under the window (or lighting) tho there is an outlet to the left the wires of which will need to probably be avoided/moved.
If there is supposed to be a vent we have a problem.... The window goes directly to the outside and we have a raised foundation there is absolutely nothing underneath the window (or above) . BTW - There is nothing under the sink that is not pipes for our sink or dishwasher (plumbing or waste line) as far as we can tell.
We renovated the entire kitchen at the time we did the bay and had a plumber do the work on our sink/DW/garbage disposal - nobody ever mentioned vent! We live in NY state - is this a code thing? Our house is from 1915 and we did not renov the entire house when we did the kitchen so these were the only walls opened and the upstairs and basement weren't touched.
(We do have vent pipes in our bathrooms)
If there is supposed to be a vent we have a problem....
Pretty unlikely that there's no vent. The sink wouldn't drain properly. The vent is basically just an extension of the drain that runs up through the roof, although there are other ways. Generally hidden inside the wall. Lets air into the system so a vacuum is not created. Various rules about how and where the vent can run. You won't know for sure until the wall is opened up. Wires and pipes likewise. Even though not used in that exact place, they may run through on their way somewhere else.
Not a really major job to do this, but not always as simple as you might like. People have talked about possibilities here. Older homes in particular can have little surprises. Exterior finish? Brick, stucco, stone will be extra work. Wood siding will need paint. Depending on your town, there may be permits to pull. Etc. While I wouldn't totally eliminate the possibility of do-it-yourself, I'd be doubtful. You're going to get a granite counter? Thats definitely not a DIY job. You might want to bundle the whole project together. Get a couple quotes. You won;t know untill somebody actually looks at what's there.
thanks for the info - we might just open the wall on the inside to see what's there. At the worst we will have an ugly hole to look at!
I guess the main reason that we are considering DIY is in addition to cost we can never get any contractors to call us back - or if they do come and look they don't call again.
We live in metro-NYC (Westchester County) and if the job is small its just not attractive, I guess. We put a big addition on our house 3 years ago and had lots of bids (and a terrific contractor, too - we recommend him to everyone and he was a pleasure to work with) but no-one (it seems) wants to do "little" jobs.
Is there a secret we are missing?
BTW: We were not at all planning to install the countertops ourselves so that isn't a concern. We figured that whomever we bought from would also install.
Opening the wall is a great idea. Even if you have a contractor do the job, it will help a lot and tell you if its going to be easy or hard. If you luck out and there's nothing behind, this won't be too hard. Your bay window was a prefab unit? The sill is a part of the structure. You need to ensure that there's adequate support for the window and for the extra 200 pounds of countertop. The cable support is not designed for that. That's why I'd think of framing the bay underneath. The countertop folks can be very picky for stone and may not take on the job if they feel the support is not adequate. So far as contractors, some specialize in smaller jobs. You just have to keep looking.
Buy the sink and faucet first and give it to the countertop people. Make sure the counter or sink has the right number/placement of holes. Faucet, sprayer, soap dispenser, instant hot water, etc.
thanks Bob and everyone for all your helpful advice. I am looking forward to a few extra feet of counter space! (no matter how long it takes it'll be worth it)
Ellen
good idea, You probably could lend it enough support with a full bay on the outside.
There are some creative vent methods here and there.
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Redirecting the vent if at all neccessary cant be more than a 30 minute fix with the wall already open. I have a well stocked trailor.
putting in another plug would give you a juction box between existing plug boxs so you could modify the circuit with minimal interior demolition to the walls. The wire is going to be moved below counter level to get around the window, not the plug.
When I say structural I meant load bearing. sorry. the bay is supported by a cable system. when installed correctly the cable holds quite nicely. the framing under the window is just added insurance.
3 and a half days? really! I guess thats why I let my union card go.
Assuming I brought all the materials to the job in the first place...done by 5:00. Demo and framing before morning coffee break. Plumbing and elec before lunch. Then cruise thru the afternoon.
I once ordered an Anderson bay window and they sent me a knockdown kit. A picture window, two dbl hung flankers, mull strips and the plywood floor and cieling.
I'll never buy another. I can order the windows and cable system, make my own plywood floor/cieling and mull kit and save about $600 bucks. They take about two hours to put together.
Maverick,
I'm sorry, but 8 hrs........I'm not buying it. Maybe in a perfect world without one single hiccup, but not in the real world.
We've all got our fantasies
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"Anyone with a firm understanding of siding techniques will have about a days work to wrap it up. "
Guess what! There is a lot more at stake here than some siding and trim.
"There are no structural members under a window"
The bay window itself is a structure.
picture a triangle in your mind's eye. Now cut one leg of it into sections and take one of those sections out. Do you still have the same triangle? No - it collapses on itself.
the floor of the bay unit is an integral part of the whole.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but I would rather replace the total unit than play around with trying to redesign something that might, or might not work to compenstate.
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I think you mean a rectangle. Like a window?
and yes, its a good Idea to put the framing back and shim to the bottom of the window. GEEZ
No I didn't mean a rectangle like a a window. I meant a triangle, like the elements of a trapezoid that makes up the floor of the bay unit.
See, here's the problem, the cables are only there to hold the weight of the window UP and not to do anything to stop it all from racking. The bottom of each cable can still sway in the breeze just like the swing set you used to ride on in the back yard.. You've got three windows with nothing to stop them from sashaying around once you take the horizontal bracing ( floor of the bay) out of the mix. It is no longer what Andersen built that is accomplishing that. It is on the contractor or homeowner now.
And no, you don't have the same window by replacing it. You have the one you replaced it with, four or six inches taller than the old one, whatever you choose to buy, to give you more light.
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I would suppose this is sort of what you are trying to end up with
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wow- thank you for this cool picture (I am on just barely on the information dirt road compared to you!)
Its only partly correct because we don't want glass all the way down to the countertop (for privacy - our house is close to our neighbor's on this side). The countertop part is right but it would be surrounded by "back splash" of about 1 foot height.
We are willing to have the new "floor" of the bay (countertop) be about 3-5 inches smaller than the existing floor so that the original base will still be part of the window (it would make a small shelf around the window base)
BTW our house is from 1915 and is wood sheathed and wood sided
Damn this is like a committie designing a horse...and we keep getting a camel.
frame double 2 x 12 under the existing window. Support the new frame to the existing wall. Cut out the existing plywood base and install new base/counter.
I'd be willing to bet you'll never see the plumbing vent as it already goes up to the left or right of the existing window.
Thank God the internet and this message board wasn't around when JFK wanted to go to the moon.
committee? I thought they worked together.
This is more like a creamery. The goodness rises to the top after awhile
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Is the window that old too? I thought it was an Andersen.
You've heard plenty of good ways this can be done and your step idea is a help. It leaves som of the understructure to keep the skirts from flapping in the wind. A competant man can get it done.
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A trapezoid is 4 sided unlike a triangle. the author said she doesnt want a bigger taller window. She said the bay is only 4 feet at its widest point, kinda small as they go. It sounds more like a garden window.
regardless, the unit should be screwed through the side and head jambs to keep it plumb and square while you operate on the bottom, wouldnt you think?
The author said no one wants to take such a small job. Who doesnt want a 3 and a half day job by the hour? I still think it could be knocked off in a day.
Ive read a few of your posts here at BT and you sound like a knowledgable guy. But I think we're making a mountain out of a molehill here.
I may be guilty of overkill but for me, callbacks are as common as new babies in this house.
My customers like it that way too.But if you want to knock it out in half a day, be my guest. A lot of my work is doing things that somebody else already did once.
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