Been cutting-in wrong all these years. .
I’ve been doing more painting than usual recently, and have tried to work on my technique.
What I realized, I was moving the brush too fast – faster than the capillary action would fill the path.
Today I consistantly got up to 30-36″ stroke and no gaps with a 2″ sash Purdy and impressed the hell out of the homeowner . . .
Forrest – – – Is my brush supposed to do that?
A dabber no longer!
Replies
Today I consistantly got up to 30-36" stroke and no gaps with a 2" sash Purdy
Congratulations. I've been doing a LOT of painting and I can't get anywhere near 30" without reloading. Probably more like half that. I could probably get more distance, but I find that an unloaded brush requires even an even slower stoke. So, after about 12-15", it seems faster to reload than to keep going.
And yes I've used Purdy brushes and they're very good, but they're not my favorite. My favorite is a slightly stiffer brush by E&J.
By the way, if you've got a favorite brush, try a final rinse with alcohol (any form will do, rubbing, denatured, etc.) to get that last little bit of paint out of the heel. It will increase the lifespan of your brush.
-Don
D C D......Experiment.......cut in ,inside a closet, use a quality 4 in brush.
Thanks for that last cleaning technique - I have always had trouble with a different color stuck in the heel.Mike
36" sounds like a lot. You must have an excellent brush....don't let the kids play with that one.
What kind of paint, what kind of bristle?
I just finished repainting the condo and I was not too happy with the ceiling cutting in. I can see a lot of spots where the roller didn't blend. These new fangled paints just seem to dry too much. Any tips?
blue
When you begin painting, wet the brush in water, shake out excess water, then dip in paint and begin painting.The above was on This Old House recently..^^^^^^"and that's all I've got to say about that"
Wetting the brush seems to dry a "paint line" at the top of the paint in the brush. I find it harder to clean than starting with a clean, dry Purdy.
Blue,
Floetrol will lengthen the dry time and make the cut-ins blend better.Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations
I've painted with pre-moistened brush and dry brushes. There is a slight difference for about the first 3 minutes and after that they are identical. As for cleaning the brush (which is one of the reasons for pre-moistening, according to some), I see no difference at all, but don't go by me since I probably spend a lot more time fussing over getting my brushes impeccably clean than most "normal" people.
-Don
I clean 'em like a mother-in-law, too. They clean easier for me if they start dry.Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations
I've had good results with the pre-wetting technique. The idea is that the water or thinner gets way up into the ferrule and the top of the bristles, occupying the space so that paint can't get in there. The trick is to leave as much as possible there, and yet dry the business end of it.
-- J.S.
Since we're talking about paint, do any of you use "ceiling paint" or just wall paint, tinted slightly off-white? I tried to do the ceiling at my parent's old house and it covered exactly squat. I don't put it on so heavy that it drips, but I also can't do a whole room with one roller full. Clean roller cover, lots of light, Hallman Lindsey paint. Their wall paint hasn't been a problem.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I use pratt and lambert ceiling paint, and it works well at hiding imperfections. it's very flat, and I believe it has just a bit of black mixed in to dull it down even further.
I've never used "ceiling paint". I've always assumed that the only advantage was price, but since I'm usually only buying 1 or 2 gallons, the price advantage wasn't enough to change from the tried and true.
For me, the tried and true is simply flat white wall paint (Benjamin Moore Regal). I don't understand your comment about tinting it slightly off-white. Most of my customers want the whitest white for their ceilings. White covers well as is, there's no need for tinting to improve coverage.
I don't put it on so heavy that it drips, but I also can't do a whole room with one roller full
Heck, I can barely do 5 sq ft with one roller full. Maybe you meant one roller tray full, but I can't do that either. I usually get about 250 sq ft per gallon. Contrast that with the 400 sq ft that it says on the can. If I do a second coat, I probably get a lot closer to 400 sq ft per gallon.
-Don
All of the ceiling paint I have used and seen was slightly off-white. Unless it was just that there was so little pigment that it looked that way. Basically, I'm done with that crap. It covers like skim milk and is a total waste of time/money.I only mentioned "one roller full" is that I rented a place that looked like it was painted with about that much and it barely covering the previous layer.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
You are right about most "ceiling " paints not being a true white. That off white look and lach of hiding comes from the use of pigment extenders or fillers instead of the higher hiding titanium dioxide white pigment. The vehicle is generally also a lower grade latex, which has slightly different color itself, not a higher grade acrylic.
These are the main reasons ceiling paints are lower cost per gallon than finishes ment for walls. They do not need to be as durable or as high quality because of the end use. Ceiling aren't subect to the same abuses walls are, unless you have a teenage son working on his "vertical".
The use of a small drop of blue colorant in high reflective white paints is a common practice. A straight TiO2 pigment reflective spectrograph kind of slopes down in the violet end of the spectrum, giving it a yellowish look. Adding the touch of blue levels out the whole graph, making it appear more uniform and achieving a level reflectance across the whole visible spectrum.
For the price differance ceiling paint just isn't worth it to me. The same higher quality wall paint gives better hiding and flow for just a few dollars more per gallon.
Dave
I learn something every day.
Thanks Dave.
blue
I prefer BM Muresco ceiling paint to anything else.. 100% acrylic and awesome to work with. As for the walls the BM Regal, Devoe, and Sherwin Williams are all great products. I've used the Behr before and it's absolutely the worst paint money can buy. I used it because the owner had already purchased it... now if someone has Behr I charge almost twice as much for the inconvienance of using it... The stuff tends to sag and run after being rolled or sprayed, it takes a lot more labor when you have to keep backtracking to fix all the flaws. Any Purdy brush is my personal choice... 2.5 inch sash for just about anything... everything else gets a 3 inch. I've used some Valspar products that were awesome and some others (namely their solid exterior stains - bad fade resistance) that weren't as good as others... Cabot stains or BM are my preference. I used to hate painting, but that was before I learned all the tricks and knew what tools worked the best for any given job... just like anything else I guess.
BM makes a "ultra white" flat ceil paint.
I do all ceils w/ it....one coat...no splatters, sprays, or mess.....done.
Another vote for Valspar paints.
And Purdy brushes, the pro line.
"Citius, Altius, Fortius"
Blue,I'm not much of a painter but Floetrol is helpful.
*edit- evidently I'm not much of a speller either.Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Edited 3/15/2006 10:25 pm ET by JonBlakemore
I did the floetrol thing. I had to...the paint was like glue.
I probably had bad paint. I used the big box brand Behr.
blue
That stuff is garbage. After a bad, scary, awful covering experience with Behr it's been banned from the company. Never ever again.
That stuff is garbage. After a bad, scary, awful covering experience with Behr it's been banned from the company. Never ever again
I agree. I put ten gallons on and I will never use that stuff again.
So, what kind should I use?
blue
The Lowe's paints are quite a lot better- They seem to do better in Consumer Reports, FWIW, and after using 1/2 a quart of Behr painting some cabinets, I can assure you that the American Standard goes on much smoother- dries slower, drips less. Of course, a lot of people here recommend Sherwin Williams.
zak
The American Tradition paint at Lowes is made by Valspar and is the best paint I've used by far for a number of reasons:-Closest to one coat coverage of any paint.
-Flows great right out of the can - very thin, but excellant coverage.
-Dries fast.
-Seems to clean off of rollers and brushes faster.And, unlike SW, very reasonably priced and available in 5 gallon buckets for about $21-24 p/gal.Valspar is the key - you can also find the Valspar brand paint at some Aco hw stores - seems the same, also excellant quality.Behr paint sucks!JT
Valspar -- that brings back memories of about ten years ago when I did a sponge/faux paint on my living room. Went to an old (now defunct) fashioned paint store and valspar was the brand that had real 'glaze' for paint finishes. Excellent company. I guess I'll have to venture into the newest lowes around here. Haven't done that yet.
Blue, you had bad paint alright. You had Behr!-----------------------------------------------------------
FT Job Wanted: Chicago, north side/North Shore burbs. http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=70809.1
Lordy, Blue, Behr!
I use two kinds of paint. BM and Sherwin Williams. Depends where I'm closer to and how much I need.
Both are great, S-W has a bigger warehouse here even though it's a little out of the way. BM is closer to the client and has more of the special stuff I sell to my client base.
Both the paints are thick, and I Flotrol each of them (latex of course).Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR ConstructionVancouver, Canada
Yo Blue
Behr has to be the worst paint I EVER used!! Did a hall ceiling recently with white. Might as well been using skim milk it was so thin and runny...least skim milk you can drink Behr should be ashamed of themselves. Total crap!
And...I always use Flotrol with almost all my paints. Goes on much smoother and gives me the chance to go back to see any drips or holidays.If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Jon, here on BT is usually "speeler".......
Joe H
I just finished repainting the condo and I was not too happy with the ceiling cutting in. I can see a lot of spots where the roller didn't blend. These new fangled paints just seem to dry too much. Any tips?
You did use a "flat" paint, yes? That's sort of important on ceilings where light will often come streaming across the surface highlighting every imperfection.
I don't use Floetrol. I'll get around to trying it one of these days, but so far I really haven't seen the need. I'll roller over wet or dry sections with equal success.
When I come back with the roller after cutting in, I try to get as close the corner as possible. The roller leaves a different texture (stippled) than the brush and that difference will be visible. To get close, I use the roller after rolling out a section so the roller will be a little drier. Otherwise, there's a risk of leaving "ropes" than can't be rolled out. I can get within 1/2" of the corner and don't usually have any problem blending it in. If these techniques don't work for you, it may be that it's not blending well because it really needs another coat of paint.
-Don
Blue, I was doing some painting too. I was using some of that Zinsser mildew resistant bathroom paint. Excellent stuff, but very hard to apply. It's just like trying to brush on Elmer's glue!
Anyway, I ran down and got some Floetrol, and what a huge difference!! The paint went on as smooth as can be and dried to a perfect even finish.
I agree with you, it seems that no matter what kind of paint I use, it dries way too fast for my liking. Therefore, I now keep the Floetrol handy.
When you are cutting in, you have to make sure that you give it a good heavy coat with the brush because the roller will tend to put more paint on, and the difference in coverage could be visible.
I painted a ceiling in someone's home about a month ago and I went to Sherwin Williams and bought their "top of the line" paint.It was a very nice home, spotless clean, and no smoke or stains of any kind.I was painting white over white.I can never get paint to cover "in one coat" like the advertising says and sure enough this did not cover in one coat.I had to come back and do a second coat. I personally don't think any paint will cover in one coat.Just an opinion.^^^^^^
All of the painters here will agree that a finish coat is 2 coats, at least -
This is an interesting thread as although we do framing and finish, I've done some painting work on my own in different jobs. I kind of like painting, its calming.The comments about Behr sure ring true with me and I thought it was me! I have a job I'm doing now and damn if the primer in spots has come through the white behr. Two coats have not done the job.A painter once told me on that he likes Glidden. Any comments? The Glidden primer seems really good in my limited experience.I also did a resto job on a victorian that required a lot of cutting in with different shades on the moldings. I found that a 3" sash brush worked best, a Purdy. I would saturate the bristles, then clean it on the sides of the can and by holding the brush right, get a nice, smooth line that would not impede onto another area/color. But I couldn't travel any 36"! Too much paint on the brush and my line would be too fat with paint and unevenness would result.I just haven't quite mastered ceiling painting, seems I get visible streaks or irregularities that require lots of effort tp fix, or hoping the customer won't notice.
I was fooling around today witha bigger brush, a 3", and on someone's advice kinda' wiggled the brush when the line would start to skip. It worked! The paint actually would restart the flow. I don't know why . . .
Forrest
yes, I've experienced that myself. I think the movement shifts the bristles and brings some more paint down, just enough to recapture a nice line.
Bigger brush usually means more control - though I never could cut trim with a 4" brush, though I have seen it done.
Behr is crap - I have used Glidden, it is ok to work with - but as I have some on my walls at home (bought curtesy of an HD gift card) I can testify that it doesn't hold up very well.
I'm back to using just Benjamin Moore.
Bo, I think I have to agree with you. I think I have some areas with the cut in layer too thin. I'm also thinking that I didn't mix the floetrol well enough.
blue
You can go as far as you can reach with one stroke.
Always use a 5 gallon for the cuts with 1/4 gallon paint.
That allow you to dip the brush and hit the brush on the sides in order to open the fibres. Dip again. You can hold 2-3 times the amount of paint with no dripping.
YPF Dino
Dino, how come you can be so thorough giving amounts with this formula but keep the D mix formula so complicated?
Shouldn't we use a couple coffee cups of paint in a 5 gallon container instead of a 1/4 gallon?
What about the coffee....decaf or regular? Could we entertain an idea about Lattes' ?
blue
Hello Blue.
Howdoyoudosir?
The formula was given 100 times.
Next time we have a full D-D- Demo on the fest.
I have to do this...just for you.
See you Blue.
YCF Dino
Congrats....nothing like a good paintjob. It's like a fancy dress on a good looking gal....the perfect final touch.
Around here it's a 2 1/2" (which I use) or a 3" (which my son "the painter") uses. We only us angled "sash" brushes. He does everything, walls, doors, trim, window sashes, handrail spindles, everything.... w/ that darn 3" brush. We have never used any tape. We recently painted my house (with all BM).....52 gals on the interior, 8 gals of which was high gloss trim paint applied only by brush (36" panel doors, 12" base mouldings, 15 " crowns, 8" window casings.... etc).
For cutting we both use about 1" of paint in the bottom of a std 1 gal pain can. We load the brush by tapping down in to the paint against the bottom of the can. I can usually get 36-48" runs with it loaded this way (tips of the bristles are about 3/4" thick with the brush loaded). For the 1 gal can bend the handle, stick your thumb in, and away you go.
Also, for interior painting, I "wipe" both sides of the brush on the lip at the top after loading. I know that MANY people say this is wrong...."you should tap", but a properly loaded brush has the paint IN the bristles, not ON the bristles. The excess on the outside that remains after "tapping" will bead up along the edge of the brush and run out on the adjacent surface.
edit: BTW Behr paint should be called "bare" paint to more properly describe it coverage.....barely at best. Also splatters like heck from a roller. We only use BM, SW, or local F&H.
Edited 3/16/2006 9:31 am ET by pickings
I love this thread! Who knew painting was such science!
I've always been a paint in 'quantity' not 'quality' type. Paint and I just don't get along...although I always seem to be the one that ends up doing it. I just don' t have the patience for it I guess.
Are there any brushes out there that can help alleviate arthritis or keep my hands from cramping up? I think this is the biggest reason I hate to paint...its literally to painful.
that's why I let these guys paint for me...
knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
http://www.cobrajem.com
I have seen a brush with an offset handle that was supposed to make it "ergonomic". It didn't feel right in my hand. But neither do those snow shovels with the bent shaft that are supposed to be easier on the back. They're just awkward.
All I can suggest is a long, straight-handled brush to maximize the number of ways it can be gripped and use as small a brush as possible because it will be lighter and easier to maneuver. A few of my brushes have a very thin section right above the ferrule. I think that it's supposed to make it easier to hold like a pencil (which I usually do), but if it's too thin, my hand just gets tired more quickly.
-Don
I was in one store that have brushes with finger holds made into the handels and they did not fit me at all.I went through the brushes at Lowes and they have several different sized handles in the Purdy 1 1/2". I like the smaller ones.Used someone elses 2 1/2" SW and it had such a thick handle that my hand cramps up.As to the Behr paint I have only used it once, but it really went on nicely. Been doing some work with an interior painter and mostly using SW which she likes. But on this one project the HO had gotten Behr and it was as good as tge SW.
I have not finished the thread yet, Bill, but in case nobody else has mentioned..
I use Purdys and Woosters. My favorite is the Wooster 2 1/2" rush with the rubber handles. My arthritis is not too bad with it, and it carries a lot of paint.Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR ConstructionVancouver, Canada
Look up Nutec brushes on the web....made in Baltimore, the DC area Duron stores stocked them for a while....they have an airway through the ferrule & up the handle, lets the brush load up really well, and then it cleans really easily (the bristles wash from the handle out, as it were)...I bought a bunch of them, I liked 'em so much....replaced all my Purdys.....