From time to time when working on a site after a hard day’s work my employees like to sit around and drink beer. I won’t allow this unless the owner provides it for the first time there by giving their approval – sort of. However, after an owner has supplied beer to a site, I will from time to time provide the beer and sometimes they may provide their own. Does anyone have any thoughts on liability? Am I liable in any of these situations? Is the owner liable? Are we both liable? These would be state laws… this is in Illinois. The safe thing to do is just not allow it. However, if an owner shows up with a case of beer as a thank you to the crew am I wrong “to look a gift horse in the mouth“? If the liability lays solely on each individual I don’t want to make a big deal out of nothing.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Look closely at these common locations for hazardous materials in older homes.
Featured Video
Related Stories
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Fine Homebuilding Magazine
Fine Home Building
Follow
-
Fine Homebuilding
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial Now -
GBA Prime
Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
ibi........ we are all responsible adults... my guess is the liability lies with the individual
that being said, suppose one of your employees has an accident going home and winds up a paraplegic
he will have to hire a lawyer
he will want to file a WC claim....is he still on the job ?.. well ?
ok.... so WC says no..
now what's he gonna do ?
if i was the lawyer, i'd come after you AND the homeowner
now you can defend the suit or settle
it just does not seem like a good idea, especially on a more or less regular basis... or even the occasional event
that's my take.... wanna drink... do it in a social setting... or do it in a bar.. they have the liquor liability insurance, you don't
wc
Just remember, they have to drive home. You have to think... do you want to see them tomarrow? mabey only one can/bottle while on the site?
hmmmm, your post perplexs me
Edited 2/28/2008 8:39 pm ET by andyfew322
"Beer after work"
Without a doubt--But I have one at home.
And there's a difference between 'drinking beer' and 'a beer,' or two.
With employees to look after, I understand your concerns.
If the owner provides the 'perk' and you're going to have 'a beer' together, then I see no harm.
Most of us do much more dangerous things during the day than have 'a beer.'
Cheers!
Pat
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
In my experience this is a bad practice. It often results in the homeowner having certain ideas about things down the road that can come back to haunt you.
It also is an opportunity for the HO to form closer relationships with the crew members than I percieve as necessary. This too, can come back to bite.
If you want/need to socialize in this manner, take it to the shop, or someone elses back yard--not the HO's.
Just my opinion.
The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
Not to hijack........but what crew/HO relationship is too close?
One where one of your crew members starts doing work for the HO on the side when he knows how you price and can undercut it
Good answer.The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
One where one of your crew members starts doing work for the HO on the side when he knows how you price and can undercut it
Without the bosses permission that would be a definite no-no
One where one of your crew members starts doing work for the HO on the side when he knows how you price and can undercut it
That seams more like a low-life POS employee then a problem with someone being to close to the HO!
On all the jobs that I run for the company that I work for I'm involved with the HO(when its an occupied house) on a day to day so getting up close and personal with them is just something that's going to happen. Having a beer with the HO has happened on occasion, I will drink one beer but that's where I draw the line, that's just common sense........... of course nothing like what happened to Sphere has came across the table for me so.......
Doug
Any one that puts a crew member closer to the HO than the boss--in any capacity.The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
Job foreman could easily become closer with an HO.
Although not a concern for typical BT'ers, HO's upset with the boss can get very close with crew members.
If a crew members close relationship with a customer (within reason, and you know what I mean by that) is a concern of the boss, the boss is not doing a good job of keeping the customer happy. Gee how would I know that?
I agree and I have been that foreman more than once.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I never liked the idea of any crew member drinking while we were on the customer's property - just thought it set a bad theme.
That is not to say that after the job was finished I never had a beer with the homeowner while we did some BSing.
Were this a time of logic and reason, then logic and reason ought to suffice.
Instead, this is a time of micromanagement, or over-lawyering, pedantry and over-reactive remonstration.
My present rule-of-thumb: In company clothes, operating company vehicles or equiment/property, then you are "at" work, even if clocked off. Ergo, all of your actions ought to be to the highest standards of the company. Period.
Say you have a crew of four, and you are "gifted" a case of beer--that's six each. You ask DoT, and impairment begins at a BAC of 0.02, on average, that's lees than one beer (call it 8-10oz) over an hour.
Aint fair, neither reasonable or logical, but neither is what we are froced to call "modern" life. Bad enough if one of the hands sticks a company truck in a ditch as is (does the "work" insurance cover that?) So, even better that the PD shows up and beers are falling out of the ride too?
To my thinking, a nutral venue will suffice, especially if everybody ditches company logos. Otherwise? Dunno?
there is pretty much no upside to this practice--or at best a minimal upside of camraderie
but there is a huge downside--virtually un- limmited downside--so MUCH downside as to grotesquely out way the minimal upside in addition to what the other posters have mentioned
look at the neighbors-- your future potential customers.
your current customer may have "gifted" you with an initial beer----but that doesn't really signal his willingness for you to regularly turn his yard into a tavern everyday at 4:00------and even if the H.O IS willing for you to do so---what about the neighbors?
stephen
I know an instance in Maine where the employer provided the after work beers and then a guy gothurt falling down.
He is still drawing workers omp many years after the incident.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I dunno why common sense seems so uncommon these days.
Simple rule of thumb.....if ya gotta think too hard on the merits of an action....weigh its positives and negatives.....it's probably not too wise to engage in said action. If only as a matter of CYA.
Nobody....and I do mean nobody....enjoys a cold beer as much as I do. And aside from a good beer paired with the right meal....no beer tastes better than one at the end of a long, hard, day.
But nothing good can come from making a habit of cracking a cold one at the workplace. Because we don't work in cubicles, doesn't preclude us from standard business practices.
Beware the bikini clad female.
She may be interpreted as offensive.
I think Grant was posting once about a wife that offered up some shenangins, he got leery and realized there may be a husband in the closet wearing a batman suit....now that is point to ponder.
I built a house for some great folks in NC, they lived in Atlanta while we were under construction. When the house was done, they asked me to come down to Atl. and help with the big move.
Well, Fri. nite, beers and scotch,,and hot summer led us to the pool..I didn't have a swim suit so the Husband said skivvies were fine..wife said she'd prefer skin dipping..well you can guess what ensued.
I wish I had more customers like that, sometimes.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I wish I had more customers like that, sometimes.
Yup. In all of the years I've been doing this....whether working for a GC, or on my own...I can count on one finger, the number of times a client has followed through with a promise of, "when this project is completed, we're going to have a big party, and you'll be invited".
They were truly wonderful people who honestly appreciated the effort that went into giving them the home they dreamed of. A pleasure to work for.
Beware the bikini clad female.
She may be interpreted as offensive.
I've had exactly one client follow through on the party promise too....
Sometimes when they promise it now I laugh...I try not to, I know I shouldn't....
I just know it's not gonna happen. Maybe if I didn't involuntarily laugh, it would happen?
Another way to look at it. I was a wedding photographer for 30 yrs, often the bride and groom would be friends and invite me after the photography was finished, to relax and party, drink as a guest.
Now a handful of people might know that the client and I are friends and invited me to party, but what about the other 300 guest. They would think, "that photographer was dancing, drinking, partying, ect...." Not good how it looked to others, BAD FOR BUSINESS.
On the way home I stoped got my 6 Pac and had my cold one at home, where I didn't have to drive and worry about my appearance to poteintal clients.
Could come back and bite to in the rear end, more than one way!!
I used to shoot weddings as well, and it was custumary for them for have a seat for you to sit and eat.Always made sure I had a coke in a can so that no one would think I was drinking for the same reasons also.JT
I think any way you slice this it is a bad practice. I am sure if a guy had one too many and wrecked on the way home the employer is the guy who eats it. I also can't imagine it being a professional looking practice to the homeowner or for that matter the neighbors who you may want to work for next. We keep social life and work seperate. DanT
Glad we think alike, I never ate unless I was invited to eat. Had a trick if the couple didn't invite me to eat. I would make a photo at the head table of the couple during the meal. Never failed, the would say, "Did you get something to eat?" No, but if would like me to I will. Thank you!
I never allowed booze/pot or anything else on the jobsite.....after hours if the HO wants to be a nice guy.......it's on him.
I'd opt rather all go to the nearest joint and have a few....
My personal take is never at a clients home unless they offer and only when they offer. I won't get mad if on a rare occasion the h/o offers someone a beer. But that's it, one beer and go home.
We'll occasionally grab a 6 or 12 pack at the end of the day and split it among the guys who show up at the shop, nobody drinks more then 2 though if they have to drive home.
It's nice to sit around and BS every now and then and it helps team-building to some extent. On the other hand, like everything else, it needs to be done responsibly, no one getting a buzz or drunk etc.
Leave the crew out of it and just drink with the homeonwer on your own! More for you and him to share. :)
And Sphere, thats a great story about you and the homeowners going swimming au natural. I have never worked for anyone I would even want to see in shorts or a bathing suit let alone swim with nekkid so good for you buddy!
Shooting from the hip, i'd say NO ALCOHOL on any customer job site. If the HO provides maybe one but thats it.
There is just too many ways that can backfire on you.
If you are holding insurance (including comp) it just would not be a good idea.
Let everybody get well off the clock before imbibing.
I don't have employees, but I don't see any reason that I would want this. Worst case scenario: After three beers, one of your crew clips a couple of kids on his way to the next place. Guess who they're going to come after?Even worse case: Said kids are killed or permanently injured and are children of a lawyer.Neighbors see your logoed truck on the street and a bunch of guys drinking on site after work. No way. Sort of like the company logoed truck parked at the parking lot of the strip club / porno shop visible from the interstate. Hmmm, wonder if the CEO / Owner knows where his truck is?
My rule is, no beer on site, and shirts stay on even on hot days.
But I've worked on plenty of sites where those weren't the rules, and I've never personally experienced a problem.
Thank you all for your interest. It sounds like the group opinion is no drinking beer on site. I have to admit I was expecting more responses for employees rather than only from employers. Before I make it a company policy I am going to consult a lawyer. Wait until the crew hears...
FWIW, I'm an employee, not an employer. "My guys" means the crew I run.
Or ran. I've moved into the office now.
Before I make it a company policy I am going to consult a lawyer.
Which goes back to my point on common sense.
When a lawyer walks in the door, common sense goes out the window.
Good luck with that, though.
Beware the bikini clad female.
She may be interpreted as offensive.
i'm an employee too.
and i'll agree with everyone else here that it's not a good practice.
even if your guys only have one or two with the homeowner and you, and then head off to the bar and then get into the car accident, it doesn't matter that the guy could have had 12 beers and 5 shots at the bar, the injured party is still coming after you and the homeowner and the bar owner.
not worth it.
carpenter in transition