Can anyone give any advice to a first time builder — wanting to take on task of being the general contractor. Is it plausible? Any idea of cost saving?
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
The best tool for straight, splinter-free cuts is made even better without a cord.
Featured Video
SawStop's Portable Tablesaw is Bigger and Better Than BeforeHighlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
You've been watching the DIY network, haven't you? - lol
If you're only planning on doing this once, spend the money for an experienced contractor. They have the knowledge, contacts, and relationships to get the job done. You, on the other hand, will probably get in over your head very quickly.
If you really think you would do this more than once, hire a contractor that is willing to "teach" you.
I along with a few others here have done it. Don't do it to save money, but if you want to do it for the experience go for it. It will be stressful (make sure your marriage is solid first). I don't think you can save a lot of money unless you do a lot of the actual construction yourself.On the other hand you'll learn a lot, and it's one of getting exactly what you want, and when it's all done (if it ever is) you can be proud of what you've accomplished.
Read the Spec House from Hell thread.
If ya still wanna be your own GC after reading that, more power to ya.
You don't save alot of money but you do earn alot of money at your new second job. If you are like me and like to work and enjoy doing this than it is a fun second job. But if you don't really enjoy it.....you should probably heed the advice given here.
You also have to ask yourself what your skill level is? I have been using power tools since 12 under my Grandfather's direction. I started making un-square furniture soon after that and have spent the last 10 years doing high end stuff for fun. In the last five years, among other things I have built several other large structures....barns, cabins and more barns.
So, put your life on hold like I have and have done in the past and jump in and see if you sink or swim.
There is a very interesting thread from a HO who tried to build his own house with the help of a management company. Read this: http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=55605.1 Although he had serious problems, the company ... U Build ... came across very well, and might be an option for you.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
I did it, coming up on the third anniversary of first putting the bucket in the ground; next month will mark that, and I hope to have my final inspection ready to go.
I did all (well, most) of the finish work (hanging cab's, finish plumbing, all electrical--rough and finish--finish woodwork, painting, some but not all tiling, etc.), and coupled with having a "regular" job and being out of the country each year for a month (actually more like two months given two weeks or more on each side of the trip was not dedicated to working on the house), don't think the three years was a real "long" time to do what I did. I know I could do it quicker if required a second time.
Although I knew it would be a lot of work, and worked best when there were about a half-dozen different things going on at one time, I didn't fully realize how much I would have my own tool-belt on to bridge things/stages/trades in the process. I also lifted a shovel a lot too.
As mentioned above, you really have to want to do this out of interest first, not saving money per se; I think for the pretty custom product I got, I saved money; especially after getting just quotes on foundation and framing (some quotes close to my entire project costs). There is a learning curve, and I definitely paid my "tuition" in costs and time. Would I do it again? Yes, and plan to next year for my sister's project.
The bulletin board here was/is an excellent resource (and I haven't made a formal "thank you" yet, but will when I get my final) to kick around ideas, issues, problems, successes, etc.
I was a little distracted by those (usually licensed contractors) who said that I couldn't do it myself; I wouldn't say it was a bigger project than I thought, but there was heaps more to it than I thought about entirely; a lot of little to mid-decisions that affect the whole project will always come up and need attention.
I would recommend definitely going for it if you have some experience and a knack for this thing i.e. construction.
Ten years ago I took on the task of building my own house form the ground up. I had a bit of experience from working with my dad and I had taken a general building class form a local contractor through the community college. I did most of the work myself with the exception of the HVAC and the drywall.
It took me roughly 18 months to complete the house except the basement. As a teacher I had summers off and a couple of brothers that came to help as often as they could. It takes a lot of family and/or friend support to pull it off. I put in a lot of 16 hour days but in the end ended up with a nicer, bigger house than I could have afforded to build if I hired a contractor. (2000 square feet plus 1500 sqare foot basement)
In the end I had a mortgage of $120,000 on a house that appraised for $200,000. Not bad for a year and a half of work. I am often asked if I would do it again and the answer is a definite yes. In fact, I am buying another lot and arranging a construction loan right now.
Larry
Welcome to BT, first off; you chose a good topic for a first post, too--not likely to be ignored at all. You might want to fill in your profile (just click on your own name, up, yeah, over, there, yah, tha's it, in blue).
a first time builder -- wanting to take on task of being the general contractor
Ok, some of the responces clearly feel you are a HO (home owner) wanting to "try your hand" at the contracting "game."
I'm wondering if, in fact, you are in the trades and are looking to make that jump to self-employment. Since that's a big first step by any measure, why not make the leap to spec builder? If that's the case, some the posters would want to ammend their first statements to you.
Several of us my refer you back to the Business folder, and some of Gerrald H's items--he really enforces the idea that a contractor has to be a businessman first. I have to agree with that position.
Like almost any other self-employed business, the hardest thing is managing your time versus earnings. It's your business every hour of every day--this is both blessing and curse. It's really very easy to work for half your expected (or billed) wages. This is not so bad, if it's for pure joy of doing the work. it's not so good if your are trying to make a payroll.
I've done it a few times, and saved myself some money (I think).
But Ima Wannabe too.
I don't think you can do it unless you know something about all the aspects of building. That means to me that if you are totally clueless about how houses are built, you had better start studying. There are lots of resources at your local library.
You also cannot do it unless you know something about getting bids from subs, then scheduling them and paying them. I spent over 18 months after I had a complete set of plans, specs, the property, site plan, etc., just finding out who was who at the zoo in everything from excavating to painting and finish, before I tackled my first start.
If you will build in a market where the UBuildIt franchise is in operation, you ought to research that. Go into the archives here to read all about how someone is going through a major remodeling project using UBuildIt.
The PBS series Hometime has some great videos on self-contracting your own home.
You and your spouse or partner will have to realize what a time commitment it is for one of you or both of you. One or both will need to have jobs that permit time away from the desk to be able to manage things at the jobsite. Tradesmen won't want to discuss things with you on site at 6:30 am or 5 pm. You'll need to find ways to be there at the start and or end of the workdays, as often as three days per week, especially when things are hectic. "Hectic" means more than one sub on the job at once, and a well-run job can have that going on quite a bit.
It is best to invest in a really complete set of plans and specifications, and to figure on making all your product selections really far in advance. A lot of folks that read and contribute to this forum will tell you that stock plans just don't work. I don't really buy that. I think that a good builder can figure his way through a house with plans by Donald Gardner or Garlinghouse, with the end result being just as good as if the plans were done by a high-end architect. But the builder working with the stock plans may have to improvise, and call upon his own experience, in "filling in the blanks" the stock plan has.
You cannot afford that. Nor can you, likely, do it. So either work with a local competant architect or designer, from scratch, or have a good professional re-engineer, however necessary, your stock plans.
They have to be clear, unambiguous, and most of all, "buildable."
Be forewarned, you will get a lot of flack here at Breaktime, from those who will say you won't save a dime, or that you just plain can't do it, or that you shouldn't do it, for a million reasons, but rest assured, it can be done. It ain't rocket science. It's just a project. If you've been involved in your work life with complex projects that call into play resources from many different disciplines, you can get a house built. Even if you can't read drawings, you can take a class that will teach you.
So, now, for the benefit of all the forum participants who will want to participate in this thread of yours, why don't you tell us about yourself and your desired project.
Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
You might be right abouit the stock plans being buildable. But many times there is a question about the best way to modify stock plans "just a little bit" without involving an architect. And the "just a little bit" usually means moving extyerior walls, or adding a bath, or putting the kitchen on the other side of the house etc.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Sometimes saving money can become very expensive.
Hire a guy who knows what he is doing.
http://www.peteforgovernor.com
Don't sell him short, Pete, until you know what he can do.
Seen this website? http://www.standarek.com/home.html It's a guy who decided to try it, while working his day job as an engineer. He's successful.
In the town hall where I get my permits, probably half of all pulled are gotten by owner/builders, and most all the horror stories running around the grapevine here are about the GC'd jobs, not the ones being owner built. So, some are actually getting by and doing something right. But, people aren't all the same. Some can really screw up a project.
You a GC? If so, ask all your subs if they have ever worked an owner-GC'd job and thought it was OK. My subs all have, and what they say about it is this: some are great, and some aren't. Sorta like "real" GCs.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
I agree with Gene's comments. I would add that it is a good idea to start out small. A garage or an addition is a place to start. It will get your feet wet on a scale and schedule that is manageable, it will teach you about the various phases of the project, it will expose you to subcontractors. Most of all, your mistakes will be small. This is the way that most gc's learn simply because nobody in their right mind would trust them to do a large project right off the bat.
Wana_b,
I am doing it now. It can be done and you may save some money. I guarantee that it is far harder and the monetary savings are less than most books will tell you. You have to be very well organized, plan stuff well in advance including detailed bids on everything. Plus you need to know more than a little about construction. I had done some work on apartments back in college but still didn't know a whole lot. So I started reading. I read books on framing, plumbing, electrical, insulation, tile, and a couple on trim work. Now none of these made me a framer, electrician or trimmer; but they did give me enough information to ask intelligent (well most of the time) questions of my subs, do some of the work myself and address problems when they came up.
About the only book I read on contracting your own home that was worth the price was The Complete Guide To Contracting Your Home. Some of the books talk about saving 25, 35, even 45% on your house GC'ing it yourself. While this may happen occasionally, the books ought to be required to have the same disclaimer that is on diet pills, "these results are not typical". I figure I will probably save about 10% on our house plus get an additional 10% in equity when we move in. Your savings will depend a lot on how good you are at finding bargains and managing your budget and schedule.
Regards,
Dennis
I'm an architect with about 15 years of experience and some modest experience as a carpenter. I just finished up a house for my family for which I served as architect, GC, and part-time carpenter/laborer. Some early conclusions:
1. As an educational experience, it was incredibly valuable. Going in, I considered myself fairly technically proficient. Having ultimate responsibility for all the work forced me to see all of the fine grain detail in a way that I never had before. I'm a better architect for having done it, and it's given me a deeper appreciation of just how much work and discernment it takes to GC a job well.
2. Filling the GC role properly will eat up an enormous amount of your time. Even during phases when I was providing no direct labor, I spent on average 2-3 hours a day managing the project. Over the course of a year of construction, it came out to around 1000 hours. If you don't have a site that is nearby and a day job that is flexible, finding a spare 1/2 man-year can be a real problem.
3. You should be a person who deals well with stress and uncertainty. Better yet, you should be a Zen master. As a first time builder, you will be thrust deep into your zone of incompetence on a daily basis. You will have no pull with your subcontractors, so getting them to work to a schedule isn't going to happen in any consistent way, which will aggravate you as well as all of the other subs who are counting on you to get the previous subs out and have the site ready for them. That kind of chaos is just going to be the background music of your day for a while.
I would never recommend that a "lay-person" try being their own GC. You should have some foothold in the trades - either enough experience in construction to have developed some knowledge and instincts, or enough contacts/friends within the industry to get yourself set up with some quality subs who can educate you and, well, save your bacon. Making a good building is like any complex endeavor, it requires the benefit of some experience to do it properly. If you can't bring that wisdom to the table personally...I'm not going to say that you would necessarily fail - but I will promise that you'll do a lot better job the second time around.
for which I served as architect, GC, and part-time carpenter/laborer
As the architect, did you ever want to fire the builder? As the builder, did you ever want to kill the architect? How often did you argue with yourself that it couldn't be built as drawn, or maybe that the builder couldn't read a good set of plans?I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Don't know about the contractor part (never have hired anybody), but if you want to build it yourself from the ground up are are not a complete moron unable to read go for it.
As to "not saving money", again, unless you are a moron, that is a lot of hooey.
As others have said though, you gotta enjoy the work and labor, sure beats the heck out of jogging for me.
Not counting own labor, can build for about 20% of having it done, not counting permits, which can reach 50% of total cost excluding own labor here.
Wanna-b-contractor.
I'm a do-it yourselfer.. sure I'm the contractor but that's the smallest hat I wear.. I'm also the guy who buys stuff and the guy who hauls stuff and the guy who cleans up stuff and the guy who builds stuff and the guy who ETC!!!!!!!!!!
I did it because I wanted to build a differant sort of house, not differant in the typical way, ie layout or size of rooms etc. but differant in the method of construction..
But I'm wandering from the point..
How much will you save? Usually nothing.. get competitive bids and use the one with the best value (not lowest price - there is a real differance!) The reason you won't save is because a great contractor knows what shortcuts to take and corners to cut and you don't.. A great contractor will be able to get subs to work at a better price than you can and often can buy materials at a lower price than you.. One sure thing a contractor doesn't pay sales tax on materials and you will have to.. In my state that just added 6 1/2 percent to the materials cost alone.. add the efficencies I listed above and that's why you'll spend as much and maybe more trying to do it yourself..
One final point.. A great contractor understands exactly about the time value of money.. He knows when he should pay a premium to get the job done faster and who to call and what pressure needs to apply.. When you consider the interest costs alone that factor can mean tens of thousands of dollars..
Example,
Near me is a do-it- yourselfer. he's an experianced builder (but new to the area) He built almost everything himself and even had materials from jobs he's done in the past to reduce his material costs.. However he's going on over a year since he started the project one that a professional would have finished in 4 or 5 months at the outside. Interest costs have increased over 1 % during that period. That alone will totally negate any potential savings..