Looking for a new toolbag, like the idea of beltless. My present set up tends to unsnap when I bend forward. Something about the gut being in the way……..
Any pros or cons about the Occidental beltless system?
Thanks in advance. Rod
Looking for a new toolbag, like the idea of beltless. My present set up tends to unsnap when I bend forward. Something about the gut being in the way……..
Any pros or cons about the Occidental beltless system?
Thanks in advance. Rod
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Replies
I knew a guy who had the beltless system and loved it. I lift weights regulary (really lift, none of this machine circuit training stuff. Real iron, real lifting) and I keep up with the latest info (not M&F or Flex, but the real strength coaches. There is a lot written and accessible by Olympic and college coaches now), and everything that I have read points to the beltless style system not being good for your spine. The spine is in a constant state of compression because your shoulders are holding the weight of your bags. It is much better for the health of your back and spine to support the weight of your bags on your hips.
I have the Diamondback bags and love them. My buddy has the CLC bags from Home Depot that are about $80 and he loves them. I used to have the Occidental leather and they were great.
I bet my chiro would say the shouders are much better suited to carrying weight than a concentrated load low on the hips ...
that guess ... with the fact that lotsa cops get hernias from walking around with a tooled up batman utility belt .... have both had me looking at the beltless too.
Then again ... I do remodeling ... mostly indoors ... and my belt is usually hanging from a saw horse so I'm not beating up the finish of my jobsite.
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Only thing I use the bags for is rockin'.
Jeff,
He would probably also say that you should wear a back belt or weightlifting belt if you squat in the weightroom. That is flat out wrong and leads to intra-abdominal weakness that seriously contributes/causes hernias. That is my experience with Doctors and Chiropractors though and I don't want to characterize every Chiro or Dr. out there.
Ever notice that HD employees are required to wear weight/back belts? That isn't a good long term solution.
It's not so much that the beltless bags are so heavy (like a squat bar with 300lbs on it) and that damages your spine, it's that the spine is under compression and then when we twist and lift materials or we are in awkward positions that we cause damage. We are then torquing our spine and when the discs are compressed they aren't as plyable or giving as they would be if the weight was snug around our hips where it's distributed over your hips (glutes are the largest muscles in the body) and the legs.
I can't (shouldn't) respond to your comment about Police officers, because I have never heard that, nor do I know the statistics. I would venture to say that many of the Police Officers that I have had experience with (don't assume it was negative :-)) or have known, weren't in as good a physical shape (weight/conditioning) as many framers you see. Of course, the original poster may not be a framer . . . . Many of the framers I know aren't on the heavy side. The extra weight, combined with the bags or belt around the hips, may increase hernias. I don't know. But it might not be the belt alone.
This may not (probably?) be/isn't a problem for a remodeler like you mention, but for a framer like me who spends a very large part of his day bent over, or hauling heavy materials around it would be.
I don't want to sound like a know-it-all and I hope you don't take my post that way. I was just epressing what I know, have read, experienced and conjectured. For all I know, I'm way out in left field :-) (wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last)
Edited 5/9/2004 7:14 pm ET by TIMUHLER
Edited 5/9/2004 7:19 pm ET by TIMUHLER
Makes sense; just like a good back-pack transfers all the weight to a hip-belt for exactly the same reasons..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Ever notice that HD employees are required to wear weight/back belts?
Ever notice how few have them fastened or adjusted properly, too? The stores are doing it because somebody thought it might reduce back injury claims. Bet it hasn't.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Capn,
The great majority of back problems stem from being overweight, and week/imalanced muscles. But of course that is a who other conversation. I have noticed how hardly anyone wears them properly. I'm sure it has a lot to do with insurance :-) our favorite subject
correct use of those belts would be to carry them with ya ...
or just wear loose ... for everyday lifting ...
then cinch them tight for the one time heavy load lifts ...
like Tim ... i think ... said ... used everyday/all the time ... can lead to weaker back/stomach muscles.
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Edited 5/11/2004 3:54 pm ET by Jeff J. Buck
Capn
The only reason I have a back belt (at HD) is to carry my tin snips and tape measure and knife--that orange apron is crappy. Just ordered a "Rump Guard" from Duluth that seems will replace the back belt.Jason Pharez Construction
Mobile, Alabama
General Carpentry, Home Repairs, and Remodeling
When quality is your only consideration
""""that guess ... with the fact that lotsa cops get hernias from walking around with a tooled up batman utility belt .... have both had me looking at the beltless too."""""
i have often wondered if there was a minimum waist size requirement for the police so you can get everything on the belt!!!!!
but seriously i lost about 30 pounds last year and its a real struggle to get everything on the belt now!!!!!
Depending on what your main use would be, take a look at the Skillers line of tool systems. I have used an Occidental framing package for almost ten years, but a while back was introduced to the work vest from Skillers for mostly finish work. The downside id that I have 2 systems hanging in my van, but I've found it to work well to use my Occi's for siding and framing type stuff and the vest for "cleaner" applications. Skillers I'm sure has a website, however I did see them on the Duluth Trading site as mentioned not long ago. Sorry, no experience with the beltless, but I do love my Occidental Leathers!
master, I have the occidental beltless system, it's great on a roof because the bags don't dump out as often as traditional hip belt bags. They have lots of space for all my hand tools and that is their downfall. They are always overloaded and too too too heavy. I still use them because I do mostly remodel work and they are great for getting all the basic stuff inside. I then find an out of the way place that I can set them down and still have things handy. If I need to do any work like framing that requires actually wearing bags, I load up my old green occidental framer's with a padded hip belt. In short, they have their good points, but for general use, I wouldn't recommend them, especially at $150+.
Matt
I've had some of the most comfortable results by adding suspenders to a belt system. It gives you the freedom to adjust how much weight is carried by the shoulders and how much is carried by the hips.
Downside - it gets hot here in Texas and it's two more straps to sweat through.
Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon