I have a customer with a 3 month old ” lyptus ” butcher block island countertop.
It split at/ around one of the glue points.
What material would you use to glue it back together? – ( there is more to the story, i don’t really want to get into the business side of it here)
My general plan is to basically glue it, clamp it, and add a batten underneath.
Any previous experience with this application is appreciated.
I don’t want to just jump in with Gorilla or resorcinal for fear that it may bleed or stain – or ?
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Replies
If it's three months old the manufacturer should fix it, no?
I fixed one with Gorilla glue and it's still good five years later.
The most bulletproof way to avoid a callback is to drill a hole through the countertop, insert a threaded rod with washers & countersink & plug. Do it on both ends of the countertop to equalize the stresses.
Billy
Actually, the thing to do would be to install a dogbone connector.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
This is the expensive version:http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10770
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
Another option that I forgot!
Thanx danRemodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Don't want to get into the manuf. thing here.
Didn't have any color / staining issues w/ the Gorilla?Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
No color or staining issues with the Gorilla, but I used it on a butcher block that is used for cutting, so it already has random stains and cuts. It might be different for a countertop that is not used for cutting. I think there would be no staining issues -- just potential glue line color issues.
Billy
It looks as if you may not be able to clamp that crack shut, even if you knew what glue you wanted to use.
If it must be fixed in situ without the ability to clamp and close it, you need a gap-filling glue.
I would go with an epoxy, thin, and filled with sawdust of the same species. Thin epoxies are those used for laminating fiberglass, and can be gotten by going to specialized stores.
Radio-control model plane builders use this when making wings and fuselages. Check out a well-stocked hobby shop.
Epoxies like this have viscosities much closer to water than honey. You need that to get it into the crack.
Another trick for crack filling. Use a fine tip on a shop vac, tape the joint across the endgrain and most of the bottom, except for a small hole against which you will place the vac tip, and suck the epoxy into the void.
I can grab the top and flex 1/2 of the opening just by hand, I' m pretty sure it'll close.
Are you thinking something like West Systems or something more specialized as far as epoxies?Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
West Systems probably has everything, including low-viscosity laminating epoxy.
When and if you glue up the top with Gorilla Glue use 2" wode painters tape on top of the crack and one on each side of it, then cut the crack out of the tape. Be sure that you rub the tape on real well. Once the glue is dry scrape the glue foam off carefully and peel the tape off.
I've got a bunch of west around.
I'm just not sure if the holding power is as good as urethane or resorcinal or DANH's mechanical answer.
I'm used to using west for lay-up for sailboards and boats, i have done some laminating with it but not a lot of bonding - for strength issues.
thoughts?Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
If I were you I would fill it and not try to rebond.
Or you can rebond. Remember to get enough of whatever you use into that joint, by whatever means possible.
J-Gougeon Bros say that their epoxy is not strong enough to make a primary bond on dense hardwoods like your lyptus. They test scientifically, so they ought to know.Bill
Note that the split may have occurred due to improper installation. A wood top should be installed so it can "float" a bit. If it's tightly anchored at both ends then it's apt to split in the middle as the wood shrinks.
happy?
I agree, it does float, is only fastened at the front edge of the top.
thanxRemodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Took a look at the pictures. What's likely happened here is that the wood has shrunk in some areas more than in others. My guess is that this was caused by the proximity of the cooktop to the damaged area, heating/drying out the surrounding wood relative to the rest of the countertop.
If it was me (and it ain't), I'd try to glue it back together to see if it would hold, but I wouldn't count on it because of the cooktop. You will need to clean out the old glue if you want a prayer of this repair holding. If feasible, I'd take the top off, rip it full length along the failed joint (& run it over the jointer unless you use a glueline blade on a TS) to get back to clean wood, and then re-glue with Gorilla and biscuits. If you can't take the top off, try to get some sandpaper into the crack and clean off the old glue before squeezing in Gorilla glue -- then work the joint to spread the glue, and clamp.
Chances are though, this top will either split again at the same place or at one of the nearby joints as long as it's subject to the cooktop heat. A batten will likely not help -- they generally help keep a top flat and do not prevent normal expansion/contraction. In fact, a properly constructed batten is designed to allow for expansion/contraction. If not, the batten will actually contribute to cracking of the top. Personally, I'd never use a wooden top near the sink, DW, or stove. Just askin' fer trouble over time. (Just my $.02)
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
I agree with your thoughts and concerns, thanx for helping with the gameplan.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
"If feasible, I'd take the top off, rip it full length along the failed joint (& run it over the jointer unless you use a glueline blade on a TS) to get back to clean wood, and then re-glue with Gorilla and biscuits."
I was just about to say the same. One will not get enough glue into that joint and proper clamping without a do-over. I'd insert a piece to make up for the saw kerf.
I'll bet the cooktop manufacturer's instructions say not to use a pot larger than the burner. One will repeat this repair until that pot's gone.
I think you can glue it with any yellow, white or polyurethane glue but from the pics I wouldn't be surprised if it recracks (either in the same spot or in a different one) next winter when the humidity drops.
Nice Kitchen!, whats with the giant fake looking tomato on the right?
It is a very nice kitchen.
Not all my work - but I did a little chunk.
Tomato is on a stool back.
Will post some pics of project if it's o.k. with HO.
Very fun/different project that turned out great.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
The other responses are all in line with possible fixes. But the problem needs to be addressed first. I have had 24" maple top move between 3/16"-1/4" in less than one week.
My feeling is the the top has shrunk, mainly due to the heat output of the stove as already suggested. The failure of the joint is an indication that the joint was either glue starved or the glue did not have any gap filling w/ strength properties. I was also taught the a properly done glue joint was as strong or stronger than the wood itself. Using any glue but the one previuosly used is just asking for another failure. The original surface finish, along with/and cleaning products that got down into the crack, would probably prevent any permanent adhesion
If this was done by a production butcher block company, they probably used something like a powered, urea plastic resin, along with a radio frequency curing device.
The only way that I would repair it is to remove the top and resaw/joint the top and glue it back together. I would use the West sytem , as you say you have, apply tape to protect the face from staining/adhesion. Then reinstall the top so that the top can float on the cabinets
That was my first question - Any recent undo heat ? - No.
But that doesn't mean that there wasn't built up stress from heat that popped.
Half of the failure seems to be right at the glue and the other half pulled the wood.
I'm thinking the glue joint started to fail and then put the extra strain of shrinkage onto the wood fibers where the glue was good, which could'nt hold.
I'm leary of the, "tensile"/holding, strenght of West. - I know it's bomb proof in a layup scenario - but it makes me nervous in this application as opposed to a urethane glue.
Thank you - thoughts?Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
I like Titebond 3 for kitchen work - waterproof stuff and dries fast and clear
1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Edited 3/9/2006 4:37 pm ET by Ricks503
Going thru the thread most of the points are hit upon.
1st the crack is caused by the sapwood of the vertical grain at that board (the left one in the picture). Sapwood shrinks more particularily when exposed to the heat of the burner.
2nd. Adding new glue to a coating of old glue isn't a secure thing. It is more like putty or using wood filler. You need a fresh surface for the glue to adhere properly.
3rd That stuff looks pretty well oiled up. ain't nothin sticking to oiled wood.
Minimal aproach is to get a Japanese backsaw and clear out a kerf width. that will clean up the glue and the oil. Take a thin slice from the scrap you must have. (where is the stove cutout?) and sand it thin enough to slide it into the saw kerf. Glue it & clamp it. Plane it sand it and then oil it up.
Lyptus? Not familiar with the wood. I'd stick with tightbond III for glueing unless that is some oily wood like rosewood or teak. Then there are specialty glues for that.
Edited 3/9/2006 9:33 pm by booch
I still suspect the best approach is to dogbone it and just use the glue for "grout".
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
Yea, that would work. It would be quicker, hopefully not opening up another joint. I'm still partial to filling the joint with wood and glue. It seems like there'd be less stress in the laminations and it would be easy to match with the straight grain.
How about making a decorative insert or a perminent trivet? Or really open it up and make a vertical knife holder!Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?