I’ve gotten my engineering report back and am ready to submit for permits on my 3 story, 28′ X 33′ beach house on the Oregon Coast. The engineers has called out tight nailing patters, ranging from 6″ to 2″ plywood edge nailing for sheerwalls. This means I’m going to be putting in a godzillion 10d commons. A couple of questions:
1. What is the best nail gun for this and general 16d framing?
2. Can you easily get the 10d and 16d commons as sinkers for the nailgun in #1?
3. Does it matter if the nails are clipped or full round head?
4. Any other advice?
Thanks so much
BruceM
Replies
Sorry Bruce,
I can't help ya on your nail gun question, although you won't have to wait long, no doubt you'll get some answers.
I wanted to ask , Where are you building on the Oregon coast?
I gotta tell ya, I went to the west coast last year for a 5 week working/vacation. We turned an unfinished basement into a bedrroom/bathroom/play room in a rental cottage in Cannon Beach. It was my first time ever on the west coast and I can't wait to go back,next time bringing my family.
We lived in the rental cottage while we worked there. It had a 3rd floor outdoor hot tub with a view of the Pacific Ocean! Oh man do I miss that! Up at 6:00, in the tub before breakfast, and then in the tub after supper. Sure was spoled for a while.................
Rod
Hey Rod and others
Thanks a bunch for the answers. Guess this 'nails it down' to the Hatachi, DeWalt, Senco or Bosch!! Yeah, we're building within 100' of the ocean, and wind shear is rated at a constant 90 mph....ever heard of PHD2-8, HDQ8 and HD14A's from Simpson Stong-Tie? I've got dozens of em to put in, along with SSTB's every 32" and 4,000 lbs of #3, #4 and #5 rebar. Goodness, this is going to be fun!!
We're located in Manzanita. Beautiful little out of the way community (well off Hwy 101). Gotta go down this weekend with a Kobota brush rake and clear the lot...supposed to rain...but that is normal for the Oregon Coast.
Again, preciate the assistance. I'll be back with lots more questions for you experts!!
BTW...I see info with these guns that says 8 guage and 10 guage. The engineer was adament about using common (not box) nails. Which guage is the common?
BruceM
Um... sounds like your engineer is talking about hand drives.
Guess this 'nails it down' to the Hatachi, DeWalt, Senco or Bosch!!
I use and prefer the Hitachi's. Not the cheapest, but as usual, you get what you pay for. Have used Senco, Porter Cable and Bostich, and still prefer the Hitachi. You can usually find some good savings on the net if your do your homework.
ever heard of PHD2-8, HDQ8 and HD14A's from Simpson Stong-Tie? I've got dozens of em to put in,
You should definitely check out the link below. It is a review of a new breed of nail guns specifically designed for metal hardware like Strong-Ties. Most current guns either can't do metal or make it a frustrating process. Here again. Hitachi comes out on top according to their testing. They also have links to many other tool reviews that would likely be helpful to you.
http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/articles/showarticle.asp?articleID=1470&position=8&type=article&partID=1
Good luck.
Thanks Andy
Actually, I'm looking at the Bostitch N80CB Coil Framer/sider as a kind of universal nail gun to put down th 3/4 T&G subfloor, wall/roof sheathing and cedar shingles. This seems to be the only nailer capable of these tasks. The only thing I don't think it can do is the 3 1/2" #16 2X framing...which I'd have to do by hand unless I want to buy another nailer just for that. What are your thoughts?
Everything I've read seems to point to the Hitachi, though. Great reviews.
FWIW, the strong-ties I mentioned are actually anchors, not hangers. They must be through bolted or use Simpson approved self-threading screws...no nails anywhere. Thats what happens when you ask the engineer if there is some way I can build a South facing 28' X 28' 3 story elevation to withstand sustained 90 mph winds and not use concrete or steel framing.
Thanks again
BruceM
I'm looking at the Bostitch N80CB Coil Framer/sider as a kind of universal nail gun to put down th 3/4 T&G subfloor, wall/roof sheathing and cedar shingles. This seems to be the only nailer capable of these tasks. The only thing I don't think it can do is the 3 1/2" #16 2X framing...which I'd have to do by hand unless I want to buy another nailer just for that. What are your thoughts?
For subfloor, I only use screws. This seems to be a source of debate for some folks, but that is my personal preference. For that, I use the Senco DuraSpin collated screw gun. So long as you are hitting straight lines (i.e. no angles) it works like a charm and pays for itself in labor savings almost immediately.
For the sheathing and shingles, I can't help much there. I am exclusively inetrior, so I'm not the best source of information on those. Seems to be a bit of a hodge-podge in this area over who prefers what. But when it comes to hardcore framing only, the HItachi's definitely reign supreme. I even heard one foreman joke that if a guy shows up with anything else, he wouldn't hire them. That was tongue-in-cheek I'm sure, but it certainly represents the mind set in this area.
Another option to consider depending on the duration needed would be rental. You can get almost any kind of nailer from places like Sunbelt ( http://www.sunbeltrentals.com ) for around $12-$15 per day. If you have a one time need for just a few days or less, this can be far better than buying. It is also a good way to "test" a particular gun before buying if they have the model you are considering.
As for the sustained 90 mph winds ... tell me again why you want to live there ?!?! LOL
Go with the max coil nailer. I'll post a link. We have had that gun for about 3 or 4 months. It is extremely well built.
http://wis.max-ltd.co.jp/int/na/pshow.php3?productcode=CN98810
It's not cheap, but comes extremely highly rated.
Since we both frame in Seattle area, I trust your opinion to tool hardiness more than say someone in SoCal. How do you compare the Max to hitachi in the different uses in the field. I've been thinking of trying a coil nailer just for the holding capacity, I hate loading so much when nailing sheer and roofs...
Scot,
I'm assuming you checked the link I posted earlier. The Max coil nailer is the CN90II or something close to that. So far we haven't used it for framing. We've used it on shear walls, sub-floor and roof sheathing. It has performed flawlessly. No jams, we've dropped it a few times, once I dropped it off the roof. I was not happy with myself. It is a great gun. I would buy another one in a hearbeat if this was stolen or something happened to it.
I really like how hardy our Hitachi NR83A's have proven to be. I'm not sure I could even kill one of those things.
I think that with a full coil of 10d nails in the Max, the weight would be similar to the Hitachi. I would get the max. It isn't cheap, but it is a great gun. It feels well made, has a great reputation and for nailing shear and roofs, you have to have a coil nailer. So far I am really impressed with the adjustable depth of drive. The only thing I would change on this gun would be to add a belt hook like DeWalts.
Hope this helps.
Don't forget the MAX models. A carpenter friend got one a month or so ago from his wife as a gift and has yet to shut up about how good it is and how well it works. And he's not the only carpenter I have heard good things about the MAX from.
As I understand it MAX is the high end of the market but come with every feature and extra imaginable. Everyone who I know who owns one loves it.
I'm an electrician and don't use a nail gun on the job. I just got a PC gun, FR350 and HF compressor, 2HP 4gal, I'm cheap, for the few projects I plan on building. That said if I had the money rattling around I would have spent the extra $200 and got the MAX round head framer.
3. Does it matter if the nails are clipped or full round head?
It does in Charleston SC. You must have a full round head for sheathing. The clipped nails can be easily overdriven and can pull through. I use a Bostich and I am very satisfied with it. My old Bostich "D head" framing nailer can only be used for framing now. Had to get a new full head for sheathing.
Here in Oregon, I do believe the clipped heads are not allowed on sheathing. Personally, I usually use 8d galv. ringshanks in the application you describe and adjust the air pressure so you don't over drive (usually, about 80 psi is good for nailing through doug fir sheathing, though you may have to finish off an occasional nail with a hammer).
Personally, I've have no complaints with my Senco guns, but Hitachi seems to have a good reputation from what I read here. You might do a search...nail guns have been discussed here in the recent past. WARNING! There is a certain amount of Chevy/Dodge/Ford nonsense in the opinions so it's up to you to ferret out the truth!
Where on the Oregon Coast?
Chevy.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Good one! lol!
(Was in the Navy with a guy from Pittsburg whose old man had a used car dealership. He'd buy auction lots of cars on base that had been abandoned by guys deployed overseas. He'd get them for 10 cents on the dollar, ship them by truck to his Dad. Made a decent pile of money cause they were rust-free west coast cars (no salt on the roads) even though the cars themselves were high mileage and pretty marginal).
(Just a little trivia of no great consequence...
cool story!
And...
Paslode framer...
Senco finish...
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
After working several years specializing in subcontracting framing of custom homes and condominiums I can only say that anyone on our crew that wasn't using a Hitachi Framing nailer was an oddball. They are easy to rebuild when they wear out their O rings and that is after Thousands of nails. They seldom jam. If you get a good flush nailer attachment and practice a little you will seldom break the surface of your plywood. I wouldn't own anther brand. Sig
I really like the new DeWalt full round head nailer. I could go on and on about that gun.
We have the new Max CN90II coil nailer. It will shot upt to 3 1/2" nails. We use it for shear nailing here near Seattle.
To be honest, I think all the guns out there are pretty good, but I really like and recommend the two above.
We do have a Bostich N88RH. I've read that it will shoot a full 16d nail. I haven't tried it. It is a good gun and you can get the positive placement tip for it. That reminds me that I have to order one tonight.
I like my new Makita coil framing nailer. Used to have a giant Senco. Maybe all newer guns are better than the older ones....... Don't know.
I'd rather have round heads for the same reasons others have mentioned, code required or not.
Love the Oregon coast!
It doesn't matter how fast you get there, it just matters that you go in the right direction.
Well I have used the old hitachi for along time and it's worked great. Just bought the new DeWalt round head and it feels like half the weight and shotts with plenty of power. Comes with tool free depth adjustment and rafterhook. I think its well worth buying. Clip head nails are not legal in california but now they sell round head nails that fit the clip head guns, the head of the nail is offset from the center of the actual nail but looks normal when all you see in the would is the head anyway.
Cliphead nails are not legal in California? Since when? I had the inspector out yesterday inpecting the roof nailing on my front and rear porches and he didn't say a thing. I bought a new cliphead in Truckee about two months ago. I like them because the nail strips take less room in my bags and you don't get plastic pieces from the strips stinging in your face constantly. Cliphead nailers also are more compact and fit in tighter spots. I use and old Senco 3.25+ as my dedicated shear nailer. I has a flush tip that doesn't necessitate adjusting the pressure on the compressor. I am happy with my new Senco Framepro 601.
If the engineer specced commons then I don't think any nailer shoots commons. He just looked at a chart and specced it without knowing better. I would just use 10d nails that fit the nailer. My engineer specced 10ds for nailing my floor which is 3/4 ply on TJI. The 10d nail is an inch longer than the thickness of the nailing substrate. I used 8d ringshanks instead. I use 12d nails when framing when 16ds are called for because the 16s blow through 2- 2xs by 1/2". We may be slow, But we're expensive.
As you see, everyone has their opinion...
I've used the Hitachi (NR 80) for about ten years now, and I have always been more than pleased. The newer Hitachi NR90 will shoot the 3 1/2 " X .160 that will qualify as a 16d common. Don't be too perterbed by the specs calling common nails for face nailing studs into wall plates. The guns that shoot the 16d commons are expensive, and you might just ask the engineer for a revised nailing schedule to frame with 3 1/4 X .148's, which are the largest nail a NR 80 will fire. We've never had an engineer yet balk at this. He may simply ask you to put three nails into each end of the stud, instead of two. Be sure you get this in writing, though. Where I've found the engineers to be hesitant to use anything except 16d commons is in the sole plate (bottom plate) nailing on shear walls. A 50lb box of 16d commons coupled with your hammer and elbow will be far less than the 500$ for the gun that will shoot these nails at 50$ and up per box...
Another place where you may need the 16d commons is in the
foundation strapping you may be putting in. Don't use box nails here, in fact, never subsitute any fastener for the size recommended by Simpson....makes inspectors very, very angry.
You may want to just go to a pawn shop...pick up a NR 80 for a buck-and-a-quarter, and use some of what you've saved to get a good palm nailer. I've used the Senco for a while, and it's bullet-proof. They come in handy, even on the strapping you'll be doing. Those commons take some oooomph to drive in, and I've found that just starting all fifty or so of them on a strap, then coming back and driving them with the palm nailer to be a little bit of a reprieve. Unless you do this for a living, I wouldn't invest in a strap nailer, but I'll add my vote here and now for the Strap-Tite by Hitachi. Paslode is one I've used in the past, and was impressed by it as well.
Thing about flush nailers. The NR 80 doesn't come with one, and the best attachment flush nailers I've used are these brushed aluminum ones, with two allen-screws to clamp it onto the nose piece. Stay away from anything rubber that pushes over the nose. The NR 90 has a thumb-turn adjustment depth drive, which is wonderful. Exact drive depth, every time, as the gun is so over-powered when it comes to shear nailing. If you absolutely have to have spotless shear nailing, and absolutely a minimum of flushing the high nails down with a hammer, then this is the route to take.
Go with the Strong-Tie screw hold-downs, hands down. I've installed a mountain of both of them, and the screw system is so much easier and faster. Get that hardware installed onto the framing members as you frame the walls. Retro-fitting that stuff into a wall that's already up is a chore...
Happy framing you lucky dog...funny, every time I go the Oregon coast it's sunny...
I'd say you've got plenty of opinions here and now it's up to personal preference...that said, wegemer pretty well summed up my preference having owned a ton of hitachi nailers using them for every thing from residential to 7 story apts. to "honey-do" lists. I have heard great things about Max and think that will b e my next experiment after i pick timuhler's brain as we frame in the same area and thus climate. If this is a buy for just this job, I would recomend pawn shops, at least for secondary tools, i've had great luck after tools have been stolen and such(probably buying my own tools back, I NEVER buy off the guys cruising the job sites with a trunk full of tools, not even the $7 fat max''s) One note on all those hold downs, I usually leave out any studs near the all thread if it's the type that connects to bolts inthe foundation, then, after the wall is standing, I nail up my doublers, attach the hardware while my studs are lying on the deck, easy access,then slip it over the all thread and toe nail the studss, put on the nut, and don't forget to nail the shear into your doublers all the way to the top plate on all hold down locations. Depending on how good your elbow is, or how good you want it to be after the job is complete, I can't recomend enough the positive placement nailers, either pasload or hitachi(the two i've use, the hitachi being way lighter) Seattle seems, in my limited world experience, the strap capitol of the fault lines, and the 2 1/2" hardened posi nails are an accepted sub for 16 box, and 12, .148 are accepted for 16 framers, maybe the same in ore?