I have a rose arbor made of cedar that needs repainting. It was originally finished with solid stain (two coats). I thought this wouldn’t peel, but it did. The arbor gets direct sun for about half the day, and is subjected to massachusetts winters.
The roses died, so now is the time to repaint, before I replant. My goal is to apply something I won’t have to deal with again for a long time.
I was thinking about epoxy paint. Can anyone advise me if this is a viable option, tips, etc?
Replies
What killed the roses?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Why look here?
the roses were probably done in by icemelt on the adjacent sidewalk.
That would do it. That also could attack your posts.
I'd be thinking ANY paint will require maintanance, but you're on the right track..think about a heavy duty floor type enamel..I hope someone else has a better plan tho'...I am making a trellis/arbor as we speak.
EDIT: Welcome to BT ...hang around and fill in your profile for the curious ones.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Why look here?
Edited 4/30/2005 1:54 pm ET by SPHERE
I can tell you what not to use--I built a decorative bridge out of mostly PT lumber and primed it with Premium Kilz and painted it with red enamel. The red is already coming off after about a year, though the white primer is doing well.
Dan,
Just a very educated guess, but I figure the enamel isnt elastic enough for contracting materials like wood, with an unstable environment. A picture frame maybe, but not a picture frame outside.
Also did you wait a year before painting the PT? I know you arent new to paint... but I wont guarantee any job without the year wait.
-zen
Dan,
Heres what you do.
Wear a mask and sand that bad boy.
Prime with your kilz again. Go to craft store and get gold acrylic paint. Paint bridge gold. Go to HO Depot and get Helmsman Spar Urethane.
Add, a bit at a time, of red or alizarin crimson oil paint to a batch of the spar until you have a rich red that is barely transparent. Paint bridge with batch. Put some more coats to make more red, or regular spar to really seal it. Id suggest at least 3 total.
Now you have a Spar Urelacquer cool china bridge.
-zen
<Prime with your kilz again. Go to craft store and get gold acrylic paint. Paint bridge gold. Go to HO Depot and get Helmsman Spar Urethane.>
Sounds like a very good idea--did you do this on one of your projects? I painted the bridge right away, despite knowing I should wait--just wanted it done. Like I say, the primer is just fine, but the overcoat is bad. I'll try what you mentioned--should make a very bright color. I paint pictures and use lots of layers of transparent glazes over white and like the effect. In sunlight, the gold with a glaze over it should really glow on the bridge. I also glued red flat marbles to it (over holes in some places, so sunlight could come through). So far the glue has held.
Dan,
I have an MFA in Painting, and was a professor for a number of years.
-zen
I sandblasted a metal building for a guy about 25 yo and then he had me spray it with latex paint. I told him that that stuff would not hold up . well it still looked good three years ago when someone tore them down . Made a believer out of me.
Aha! We'd love to see any paintings you'd care to post here!
Dan,
Im running dial up, Ill have to do some digital juggling to make images small enough, but Ill see what I can do. The limited color does a job on the as well, not sure if you have noticed on yours.
-zen
Yeah, the color isn't quite perfect and making the pictures so small doesn't help.
Just took two of my paintings to an art show in Saginaw. I like that show because you get to enter two paintings and whatever you bring gets in. There are some nice cash prizes too.
Ok tea,
First, you can use garden fertilizer on your walk for the ice. Its a little slower, but wont kill your plants.
Solid paint and stain dont work well outside unless sheltered.
The best thing that you could do, work of it aside, is to strip, sand to wood, then coat with your color of interest with semi trans oil stain. Semi stain does a better job of seeping into the wood , and doesnt make a shell on the outside of it. This would probably be your best bet unless you dipped the arbor a ton of times in paint.
Years ago, the lead in paint helped with elasticity, now that that is gone, the best we can do is try to catch up with Latex... which is very close at this point. Oil these days is very brittle and cracks within the first few years.
Im of the new school where if you use latex topcoat, use a latex primer. With cedar a stainblock type would probably help. Kilz "Premium" is supposed to be great. I dont choose oil prime with latex, because this was an idea that I think cropped up in between the oil and latex years. Oil paint can off-gas for 20-50 or more years, and I feel that with that, the latex creates to much of a barrier for that reaction to happen, causing break down of the latex topcoat as the gasses try to escape.
There are many many painters that still paint with oil prime undercoat who learned that years ago and wont change it. They would disagree with me, but I follow my studio and scientific understanding of the material.
Oh and sand between your coats... if you need paint, not the stain.
-zen
zen,Thanks for the tips. I would like the arbor to be white, with no grain apparent, whick is why I didn't use the semi- trans stain in the first place. Would there be a downside to simply coating it a few timew with the kilz premium primer and dispensing with the paint altogether? I'm fine with the flat finish.-Teadrinker
Tea,
Primer is a special formulation which has a lot of "binder" or glue to help with adherence, both to the material and for the next layer of paint. As it dries and the solvent escapes, the solids create a "tooth" or "key" Maybe you could think of it like barbs or moonrock craters. This key is what captures the topcoat and keeps it from peeling. Because of this surface, it is best to topcoat as soon as possible, and no longer than a week outside because this key gets filled and covered with dirt and grime in the air. If it goes over a week you should start over.
In addition, because of the amount of glue and solvent needed, there are less solids. You would need to put on 20 coats to get a clean white surface, and it still would probably be a bit yellow. If it was just a few coats you could see through it.
So, I would either use the Kilz premium, or your topcoat companies primer, and if you wanted to follow through with the Kilz topcoat, Walmart sells the new line of Kilz color topcoats.
Oh and for those who just scoffed at the walmart comment, the 'color place' paint they used to sell was lower end Sherwin Williams. lol
-zen
Gimme yer take on Hydro-cote Polyshield...ever use it?
It can be had in solid white , I think..
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Why look here?
Sphere,
I havent used it. I have never seen a water based exterior poly before... Id try anything. With UV inhibitors to boot. Sounds like spar the way they explain it.
19.99 a gallon is a steal for water poly, usually its 2x that for interior grade. I wonder if it has that blue milky glow about it.
-zen
also seems to have good coverage, recoat and drying times. yup Ill get some.
Edited 5/2/2005 9:59 pm ET by zendo
In the clear it does appear as milky, but not what ya think..
We need to email...I can explain it better that a way..
The solid white is "solid"..
What ever price you saw is wrong, it is much higher.
Spheramid@ aol.com
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Why look here?
opp my bad that what the image of a gallon, but qt price. The gloss was 44 a gallon, which is still just a few more than polycrilic.
-zen
Yup.
I can tell you all about it, I was a rep. and dist. and salesman for it.
It has it's merits and flaws.
All in all, it is still awesome stuff.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Why look here?
So on some southern exposed pressure treated repairs I made last summer and plan on painting painting them this summer, Kilz Premium would be a good choice for a primer followed by two coats of a SW top coat?
The client has access to SW paints as a business associate so he prefers SW. Would the Kilz Premium be a better primer than a SW primer?
be inquiring minds got to know
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
Razz you have upped the ante.
Im not an SW expert, but Ill bet they have a stainblock primer. I do know they have about 6 different ones. I dont know what the Kilz compared to it would be like, but from a paint as a science stand point, I dont think that using a companies primer and top coat together is just a sales gimmick.
Chemists and technicians work day in and day out formulating and changing the formulas of the paints that their company sells. They test with their products. I believe that you will have the best results using the same company primer and topcoat.
This isnt as big a deal indoors, but with adverse conditions Id go textbook. Maybe also in a bath, but Ive used Kilz 2 latex prime in baths.
There is a good chart on the back of the Kilz can for what each of their products work best on.
good question.
-zen