Best setup – spraying 20 interior doors
hooswoody
| Posted in General Discussion on
So I want to paint all of my interior doors (20), 1 coat of Zinnser Bin Primer and then 1 coat of latex. I have a good airless sprayer and a co-worker who knows how to use it (I can paint 3 board fence but don’t trust myself on interior quality items). What type of setup would you use to do this efficiently? I have plenty of outdoor space and a garage.
Should is put hooks in the top of the door and a screw in the bottom, paint on a set of saw horses so that it can be flipped after painting one side? Then set up a system for hanging in the garage?
Just lay out 2X4s on the ground and paint all 20 on one side, wait to dry, flip, ….?
Any suggestions on making this process as efficient as possible will be greatly appreciated.
Replies
I like your first idea--2 pegs on one end and one peg on the other so it can be flipped by one man. I also like the fact that you are thinking 'horizontal' as many painters would stand them up against the wall and spray them. That method would go against the manufacturer's recommendation and possibly void any warranty.
"That method would go against the manufacturer's recommendation and possibly void any warranty. "Huh?!!! What voids the warranty? I think you are mistaking something or mixing up some thoughts. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim, when you spray doors standing up you don't get to the tops or bottoms. When the humidity increases, the unsealed edges swell.
It's something I always ask painters to do, they always say they will but never do. I didn't press it until it cost us a $1200 mahogany door last year. It's important.
Mike, I'm aware that the manufacturers require that all six edges of the doors be properly painted and sealed to prevent moisture migration. The poster insinuated that spraying the doors in a vertical position might void the warranty. Those are not the same statement. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim,
That information comes from the WDMA pamphlet "How to store, handle, finish, install and maintain wood doors" and is supported more stringently by most architectural flush door manufacturers. e.g.Marshfield DoorSystems warranty, "Stains MUST be applied with the door in a horizontal position. This permits easier handling of the materials, and prevents the solvents from evaporating too rapidly. Rapid solvent evaporation can cause fillers to streak. It can also cause the wiping stains to dry before cleanup can be completed. If the door is in a horizontal position, premature drying is slowed down, since the heavier-than-air solvent vapors tend to remain on the surface."
Don't get me wrong Jim, I was just giving my opinion on the original poster's question on his set-up.
Anyway, there are so many exceptions to the door warranties that they are not really warranted if they are field finished.
Oh, well.
By the way Jim. Are there also bats underneath the Sam Bass bridge?
I was coming home last summer around dusk and drove through a cloud that I swear was bats.
I have seen a swarm of them coming out of a bridge near there. It could have been the Sam Bass but I don't remember for sure. I know there is a famous bat bridge somewhere near us but I'm not that enthralled with the idea of waiting around to watch bats go out for the night hunting. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim
South Congress Bridge, that's where the bats come out in swarms. It really is cool to see, take the grand kids downtown some evening and enjoy the show!
Doug
My daughter and SIL were there and they ended up with batspray on their heads and clothes. They were too close and they said it was really gross but the bat thing was cool..just don't get too close LOL! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Okay, that's the information I was trying to understand. The manufacturer is warning about streaking caused by vertical streaking but it doesn't necessarily void the warpage warranty, which I assumed to be about the door warping. My bad assumption.Thanks for that information. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Edited 4/24/2008 6:53 pm by Jim_Allen
Here is a good setup for you. If you have dominos, you can mimic the arrangement on your kitchen table.
Stand a door upright on its bottom edge, stand another one adjacent at 90 degrees to the first, then continue to do the same so the first four, when viewed from above, looks like a widespread "W." Keep going with six more, so you have set up 10 doors.
Then do the rest in a parallel line, and you have set up your entire group of 20 doors.
Doors won't stand freely on their own like dominos will, so you need some help. Here is what to do.
Get 8 furring strips each 16 feet long. Each of your two rows of doors will have two strips running like railroad track rails underneath the "line" of doors, keeping their edges off the floor. The "rails" are repeated atop the doors, and are tacked on with small nails or screws.
You'll need a helper to get going, but once you have two doors set up with their tops fixed to the top stretchers, they are self-supporting.
Where the doors form "corners" with each other, be sure to maintain enough space there, maybe a couple inches, so spraying is easily done.
An 11x12 foot bedroom can be used to set up two rows of doors, each row having six doors, for a total of 12. For your twenty, you'll want a bigger room.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
It sounds like the politics has worn you down. Sorry to see you go.
This thread is interesting to me because I had to stain a couple doors last week and starting thinking about the difficulty involved in getting all six sides covered. This is a synthetic door so the bottom was already covered with a full rubber weatherstripping. I wondered if I was supposed to remove it till I saw it was all stapled on.
Why wouldn't they screw the bottom weather stripping on? We all know it needs to be replaced periodically eh?
Oh yeah...the best setup...I don't have a clue. I have a good idea for one door though.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
When I spray this many doors, I get some big common nails (spikes) and drill two holes on the top of the door and two holes on the bottom. Insert the spikes into the holes and use them for handles. Set the door on a sawhorse with the nails supporting the door.
Spray one side and flip over to spray the other side. You may need a helper. I've never sprayed Bin. Maybe it dries so fast you could spray the primer and the finish coat in one operation by flipping the door after each coat.
When you are done, take the door into the garage and stand it on the bottom nails.
I usually tack a couple of slats to the top and lean the door against the wall until it dries.
Before you hang the doors, shoot some caulk into the holes and touch up if necessary.
I had about 20 doors to do as well, but I didn't spray them. They got brushed-on oil paint and brushed-on oil-based polyurethane (depending on where they went). I used the domino method described by another poster, but the door edges weren't touching like dominoes would. I also ran 1X strips on the floor to keep the door bottoms off the rough deck.
Here's a not-so-great picture:
Oops, wrong pics!
Here they are.........
Its like being on the set with Monty Hall.
Thanks for posting the pics of the "domino" setup. It shows exactly what I feebly tried to describe with words, including the gap between doors to facilitate painting there.
I had forgotten to mention that before doing this, all doors are stacked like a tightly-registered deck of cards, and their top and bottom end surfaces finished. It is fast and easy with the doors thus stacked.
BTW, the first time we use the "W" or "domino" stand-'em-up-to-paint-'em method, the tool used was an airless pump, the primer used was Zinsser BIN, and the finish was S-W ProClassic Acrylic Latex.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Edited 4/25/2008 10:37 am ET by Gene_Davis
I don't like the horizontal method at all, line them up like this ///////(spread a little wider though), you'll hit every side except the tops and bottoms which you can do separately, and you damn well should.
Doug
See if I can mimic my method.
| __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
I kinda did it if you will work with me a little . <G>
Every mark represents a door . However the two end doors should be in middle of the line of doors which is the only disclaimer.
I use a 1x4 and 2 inch drywall screws to attach to the tops of all. After thats done they all will stand in place securely. I like to space doors in the line 4 inch apart but can be done in as little as 2 inches if space needs to be shortened. Thats usually determined by the length of the room or the boards. I like to leave 16 inches of separation on the end doors.
I use a drill guide on a drill to preset two drywall screws on each corner on the bottom of each door to hold it up away from not only the floor but from any dust.
On a garage floor he said he had if that was my only inside choice , I would lay heavy plastic drops such as 6 mil vesqueen or the tarps they sell at walmart . Not cloth or burlap.
I normally spray them but in these conditions; Inside a garage with oil paint I would use a mini roller. When they first came out I thought about them as a homeowner way to paint and on some jobs I still do. I handle a brush and a spray gun well but some jobs a mini roller actually beats them. If one doesnt handle a gun or brush well the mini roller will get them by in a lot of situations. . In this case a mini roller wins out . Before the doors are screwed the ends can be done with the roller . All edges can be handled with no overspray.
Anyway I tried a lot of systems and I dont proclaim this one is best but for me it offers the best results. When the doors are set up this way they are solid enough to hand sand and clean. They just arent going anywhere. The best senario for this set up is 4 coats of material with sanding and cleaning between coats like laquer which made me find this system where I could let the doors stand till they were done .
In new type construction or remodel its one of the last things I do finishing . I like to lock and hinge the doors and hang them comming off the rack so I dont screw them up. They can cure on the hinge if the room space is needed that way.
To general in this thread;
Laying doors down may seem easiar but it also has its negatives . I cant live with those negatives .
Laying doors down takes somtimes three times the drying time . Normally at least two times .
Theres dust in the air everywhere and depending it could be really bad but you dont know it till you paint a door laying down and let it dry. I spray trim outside with primer and sand it but I dont top coat out side because of bugs and boogers of unknown nature . I would not do a door out side with primer and risk it. Lot of people do though. I once was doing about 500 doors in an apartment complex . The weather man said it was going to be clear and sunny. He didnt mention the 30 mph winds that took two dozen doors away from me I had to replace. Thank goodness it was only that many. I repaired several more that got scarred. Had it been your house Id been in big trouble .
Tim
Hi, guys. I did about 20 doors in my basement in batches of 4 or 5. These were new traditional (panel) doors with old-style lock mortices. You could adapt this to modern locks but the lock holes need to be drilled before painting (why not anyway?) I was able to paint horizontal and dry vertical with no $ outlay. Here's what I did:
- Set up two tall sawhorses as a cradle so that they would support a door held up by only TWO nails (2 1/2" common), nailed into holes pre-drilled in the center of the top and bottom edges of the door. Thus, the door lies horizontal but can be flipped over with a finger. I actually made a small brace that tacked into the top of the door to keep the spray force from spinning the doors.
- Additionally, before spraying, I put two more nails (not sticking out so far) in the top and bottom edge of the doors, but near the lock edge.
- I was able to paint one side, then flip and paint the other side. All edges are accessable so the only thing to do later is fill and touch up the nail holes. If you are worried about runs on the face of the door, let it sit flat for a few minutes to firm up.
- Then I spun the door so it was lock-edge up, and inserted into the lock mortice a small jig I had made. It was held in place by a pin through the door-knob hole and functioned as a handle that allowed me to lift the door, edge up and keeping it parallel with the floor, with one hand and without touching any painted surface. The jig was L-shaped so that my lift point was above the center of gravity of the door (even though the lockset is closer to the borrom edge).
I then lifted the door off of its sawhorses-cradle and walked carefully about 15 feet to an area of the basement where I had pre-hung loops of rope from the ceiling such that I could slip a loop over the second (shorter) set of nails on each end of the door. The door was now hanging on edge parallel to the floor, with nothing touching any painted surfaces, to dry. I hung the doors about 8" apart and none banged into each other during the process.
I did this with 32" and smaller pine doors. It would not work with heavy doors that can't be lifted with one hand unless you have a helper (and a lift jig with room for two hands).
I was painting with oil an an HVLP sprayer. I fabricated a booth with a fan to the outside. The doors came out amazingly, with beautiful surfaces. Unfortunately I did not know then that white oil-based paint eventually yellows a lot unless it gets direct sunlight. So now, 12 years later, I am planning to repeat the process with latex.
I hope this is understandable. If not, I could try a sketch but my artistic abilities leave much to be desires.
Good luck!
I use Door Deckers, they screw onto the top & bottoms allowing all sides to be painted on the flat- so no runs, they stack and are cheap. The website is http://www.speedpainting.com/index.html
great concept. Do they work as easy as they imply? Do you paint the bottom before you attach the gizmo? Is there a closeup picture anyhwere? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
The bottoms are painted along with the door, then I take a roller and prime the area where the doordecker was after. I don't know about any pics but I can tell you they stack well, about 5 or 6 doors high. They are great for doing alot of doors in a small space. We used to stand them up with boards tacked along the tops in a alternating v-pattern. This is much easier and faster.
That's a pretty clever setup and warrants a bookmark. While nosing around there I bought some bucket bonnets....you used them?
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
Mathewson,
Thanks for the link. Given that this is a one time deal for me, I can't justify spending the money. But I may use the concept to come up with my own cheap version (4 nails as suggested earlier in the thread?).
Cheap version- take a length of 2x4 about a foot longer than the door and a couple of small chunks of 3/4 plywood. Screw the 2x4 thru the ply and into the door, paint door, use the 6" on each side to flip door- paint other side and then stack.
First make sure you really want to spray these doors and that your airless sprayer will spray latex (if it's a small airless) or that you can get fine enough control to spray doors without runs (if it's a big airless). You'll probably need two coats of latex.
If you decide not to spray the "W" method should work well. Use a roller to apply paint quickly and brush it out.
If you decide to spray think about whether you will have problems with the W method in terms of overspray getting on the adjacent doors.
Also, if you are spraying Zinser BIN on 20 doors you don't want to do this inside!
I'm with Mike -- a pet peeve is the painters who almost never paint the tops and bottoms of doors even when you tell them point blank. They just don't do it. It's like the plumber who can't help but cut away 75% of the floor joist (I apologize to you good plumbers out there -- both of you). You can roller and brush paint the tops and bottoms.
I suggest you cobble together an easy spray booth outdoors and then hang your doors in the garage to dry with minimum dust and no overspray. You can make the temporary spray booth with 2x4s and hammer-staple poly plastic on it. Use cardboard or masonite or luan for the floor. Frame in a box fan to blow out of the booth and tape a cheap pleated HVAC filter on the fan so it doesn't get gunked up with the paint. This will help keep the overspray away from you and away from the freshly painted doors. From the ceiling of your spray booth you can hang a horizontal 2x4 with a big bolt as a swivel and this will let you spin around the doors so you can hit both sides and the edges without moving your feet. Set up lights so you can see what you're doing. And have a hook or nail or screw in the framing that you can hang your sray rig on.
Below is a photo of what I'm talking about. You can see the spray booth and you can see the bookcase shelves I painted hanging in a garage.
This setup takes some prep time, but not too much. Once you have things set up you can go quickly through 20 doors.
I used Piffin screws and wire to hang the doors. The Piffin screws go in and out easier than hooks, although I think McFeely's sells a hook driver bit.
The tricky part will be moving the wet doors from the spray booth to the garage because they are tall -- but you'll figure out a good way to do it.
Billy
Edited 4/24/2008 11:13 pm ET by Billy
Just be really careful with doors, the prep must be immaculate as any imperfection will show through, and fixing errors is next to impossible. Moving the doors the least amount is key to avoiding bumps dents and scratches. Our painter will usually tape off the windows in a room, and do all the trim in the room as well as how many interior doors there are standing up against the wall. Sealing on all sides is essential.
hooswoody
I posted about this couple of months back.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=101640.1
I chose to paint horizonal. We were using a latex gloss and it tends to run.
The only thing that concerns me about the W method is the inside corners and getting too much paint loaded up.
I painted the top and bottom before mounting the OSB, even though the doors are 90 years beyond their warranty date.
Rich
Rich,
Thanks for the link. I think I am headed in your direction. But with 20 doors I still need to think about where to paint/hang.
I guess I should have used the Search feature a little better.
Here's a dumb question.
Why not spray the doors in place?
I paint GWB, casing, baseboard, built-ins, columns, shelving, and anything else that I can't think of in place.
Why would one go to all the extra effort to remove the doors (and risk mismatching them, stripping screw holes out, giant domino accident, etc.) to put a few coats of paint on them?
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
"Why not spray the doors in place?"
Depends on how you finish the job.
Theres one builder here that sprays everything including hinges. No more brass . Its the fastest way to paint . All the doors , woodwork , trim get shot with primer in place . Everything gets painted with egg shell off white. Everything!
I just did one kinda like that except I had to remove the doors. The ceilings , walls and trim were all off white egg shell. Doors and cabinets bright white semi gloss. I didnt want to paint the hinges as usual for me so they get dropped in gallon paint cans . I spray the inside and do the doors in the garage then hang back with no brushing cutting in. Takes a minute to drop a door and about 5 to hang it back.
Clear finish is another animal too. I like shooting laquer over hinges but not stain . Its gotta be planned.Some painters take houses raw after the cabinets and carps are gone and some work in there with them.
Ive timed everything many times because thats what I do is rep work. 6 minutes is accurate with hollow core doors. Every job has so many sq ft in it so I recorded my times doing different things. Its a good basis before you bid a production job in volume like apartments . In commercial work you bid piece work more or less in the painting trade and wall sq footage . Floor footage doesnt do anything for a painter/ drywaller in commercial work except if its apartments. Anyway door ways are figgured in minutes as well as doors . Cabintets , trim etc . are figgured by footage but you have to know the time per foot to bid it . That hits a calulator to break that down.
There are many different ways to do it because jobs present different problems and the solutions are then different . Sometimes you can do the same job three or four different ways too like we are talking about here . My suggestion is to time them and try them all that speak to you . Fine tune it .
I was spraying wall texture in apartments for a few years every month. Some salesman gave me some two inch paper to try in my masker that didnt need tape . Just run it through and it had sticky note glue on it . I told the guy at the SW store and he gave what he had to me because he wasnt selling it . I used it on window frames leaving the glass exposed for light . Quik, cheap , and provided light that had been lost to a six inch taper.
Just do your thing.
Tim
Last time I had a batch of doors to finish, I took apart a set of sawhorses, and replaced the top rails with 12' 2X6s. That gave me a lot of area to work with. I did the nails in the top and bottom thing, as many have mentioned. Once I put finish on one side of a door, I flipped it over to dry. (Wet side down) That way no dust settled on the wet surface.
Women find men more attractive if they can write their name in the snow.
I like to rip some 1/4" ply scrap about 6" wide and a couple inches wider than the door, center it, and screw it onto each end. That allows the door to sit with each face off of the table, and allows one person to flip the door by holding onto the lock-set hole. Then it can be leaned till dry with no paint marks.