Hello all,
New guy here, getting rolling tackling my first major home remodeling project. So be gentle, okay 😉
Our basement utility room was plumbed for a 3rd bathroom when it was built 16yrs or so ago. It’s never been finished, and I’ve decided it’s time, so I can reclaim the master bathroom from my stepdaughter 😉 Some of the previously installed piping is in the way of what we would like to accomplish (like the vent stack is about 16″ out into the room rather than against the wall, different location for the shower drain, etc.) so I need to cut up a section of the cement floor to effect the necessary plumbing changes.
I have checked out a large cement drill (Hilti TE92) from work which is making holes quite nicely, but after using it some, I’m thinking I’m going to be taking out a rather larger area of floor than I initially intended, and the drill-n-chisel routine is going to take a *long* time! I’ve got two or three tool rental places in town here, but figured I’d ask here first, as sometimes the staff at those shops don’t always know any more about the tool than the price per day.
What would you recommend using in a basement utility room to cut thru the cement w/ the minimal amount of muss and fuss but in a timely fashion (no more than 4-5 hrs for about 20′ of cutting total)?
TIA,
Monte
Replies
Sledgehammer.
Don't underestimate what they can do in the hands of someone determined.
Wear eye protection.
You were are the right track. Once you punch thru the floor and get a starter hole started it's a piece of cake. A Bosch brute breaker hammer would be the ticket.
Now for the stack are you REALLY sure you REALLY want to move that vent / plumbing stack?
Wet Head is the man to talk to on that one. He should be along shortly.
BTW you are trying to take out concrete. (CC) Cement a differnt kind of product and is a component of CC.
Almost fogot... Welcome new guy... Enjoy.
Edited 6/25/2003 1:03:09 AM ET by IMERC
hmmm... maybe I'm doing something wrong then... I've been drilling holes w/ the TE92, w/ ~1/2" space btwn the edges to minimize hassles w/ the bit slipping off into the previous hole, and then going back w/ the chisel head and knocking out the material btwn holes. I'd think it should pop out as a slab, but something is holding it together still, maybe the reinforcing mesh.
As far as the vent stack, no I don't *want* to move it, but after spending a lot of time working it out on paper, I don't see a good alternative. It really makes the spacing of things difficult, even if I just frame a stub wall flush around it straight to the ceiling. I've got to tear some stuff out nearby (relocating floor drain, shower drain, etc.) so I figured I might as well get it the heck out of the way against the wall while I'm at it.
Thanks,
Monte
I think you just may want to leave the stack alone. Make it part of the decore.. Move or rearrange everything else to your hearts content. Everything up stairs is connected to it.
Good chance that there is wire mesh in the CC. Did you plan on reinstalling that chunk of slab you are taking out? Just be a brute and bust out CC that you want to remove. Once it breaks it gets easier. Here's you chance to be the Hulk... Sans the green.
DO NOT FORGET your safety glasses, gloves, knee pads and pay attention to every thing that's over head.
Actually, there is nothing else upstairs attached to this stack. Its directly below the master bedroom, and the master bath and 2nd bathroom have their own. The bizarre part about how they ran the piping is that the rest of the vent piping in the utility room is along the wall, except this main vent. Everything else forms a header of sorts running along the wall, which does a 90 and comes out to the main vent pipe. It then goes straight up to the overhead, and then, back over to the wall and up! So almost everything else is already where it needs to be, and little to no modification of the system above or below (seems) required. One of several things in this house that don't make a whole lot of sense.
I will double check things and see if I can find some way to make a stub wall work. Biggest issue is that it would really impinge on the space for the toilet bowl (like I said, dunno what the heck they were thinking, if at all), and I'm already having to do some creative framing to try to minimize the intrusion of an overhead 4x12 structural beam.
Thanks,
Monte
Edited 6/25/2003 8:03:26 AM ET by milanuk
It seems like every time that I encounter something that causes me to say, "Was that guy stupid or something? Why did he do that?" I eventually recognize the way he did it was for a reason - sometimes it was a real good reason.
Triple check just why this stack is where it is. Can it be tieing in to something else not visible at that point?
Anyway, after all that, it can be done and doesn't have to be that difficult. Just have a good pipefitter watching - and willing.
What's the stack made out of? CI, PVC or copper?
How close is the floor flange to the stack?
FWIW. That 25sf or so of CC probably wieghs in at over a ton. Be carefull.
If you want a clean edge, spend 60.oo to 75.oo $$ on a Dry diamond saw blade, there will be a lot of Dust, compliment that with a 7 1/4" skill saw checked out from work, make small 1/2" deep passes, grab that sledge hammer. Do not forget to pay attention, for it's the simple stuff, that can create serious accidents. Jim J
I have done pretty extensively what you are trying to do. First I would disagree with the post that your vent stack is probably there for a good reason - I would lower the odds to 50/50, 50% why did he $#% do THAT?, 50% that there's a really good reason not visible to you.
I find cutting trenching in slab easiest with an electric jackhammer, $70 / weekend at rental shops, and a good compressor with an air hammer and sharp bits to clean up the trench. A sledge hammer is a *lot* of work, but good for the body and soul.
My guess is that your vent pipe is cast iron. Cast iron is difficult to me to work as far as cutting into it, getting old fittings apart, etc. I usually try to fernco to PVC and work from there. Your original plumber may have just set the stack wrong before the concrete pour. Did you say it is the -main- stack, which would imply that other vents run into it above grade (which you said is not the case), or do you have multiple stacks in the house?
remodeler
You can't be serious!
That stack is there for a deffinent reason. It won't be an ornament.
He's already said the rough in plumbing was in for the basement.
Also the master bedroom and bath is over head.
The stack is 16" from the wall. Footer not letting him getting much closer?
Till Milanuk breaks out the slab the many unknowns won't be answered.
Why for the air compressor / hammer? The Bosch breaker hammer has all the attitude he needs. Once he has a starter hole it gets a lot simpler and easier.
WTB that he sackcreets the hole and adds a finish floor?
Well,
1) the pipe is 4" PVC where it comes out of the ground, and 2" after it junctions w/ the other vent piping.
2) After looking real close at where the vent pipes come out of roof, I concede that some of the venting for the master bath may run out the same vent stack. This one runs right up not far away from the left side of the sink, out in the bedroom, and there is another, coming up btwn the master bath proper and the 2nd bathroom. Who knows which one goes where. But still, this one runs up, over to the wall, and back up. Don't see a reason (yet) why it can't run right up the foundation wall all the way.
3) I doubt the footing has much to do with it. The wet stack for the laundry is <8' away, and is right up against the wall. The floor sump (this is a daylight basement below grade of the septic system) is w/i 6" of the wall itself.
4) and yes, I intend to fill the hole, and cover it w/ some kind of flooring, yet to be determined (way down the road at this point).
Thanks for the ideas and suggestions. I picked up a wet/dry diamond tipped 7" blade for my CS, and am off to see how well it works or doesn't. Once I get thru the flooring, I'll be back (promises, promises)
Thanks,
Monte
didn't read it all, but can that "unused stack" be a radon vent??
Can't I go 1 day without spilling my coffee?
I've seen a lot of basement plumbing jobs where they simply placed things in the wrong location, and once they are there of course they are literaly set in stone.
Just recently I had to enlarge the square hole left for a bathtub in a basement slab. I decided to score the straight lines for a nice clean cut. I put my black deWalt masonry blade in my circular saw and took about a 1/4" pass. It was so easy* that I took another 1/2" pass and then an inch. The saw will cut cleanly and without effort at about one inch. Once I had it down to about 2 1/2 inches I broke out the piece witht a hammer. Wear a mask and have someone vac out the dust while you cut.
*this was a brand new house and the concrete was hard as I've ever seen. Justus Koshiol
Running Pug Construction
Hmmmm... sounds familiar... almost. I went and tried that diamond cutoff blade in my CS, and like you said, it cut a nice, straight line, and I was careful to keep it under 1/2" per pass, but unfortunately the pad is deeper than the blade can cut. I don't have a full-sized sledge hammer at this point, and being a bit on the tall side (6'5") I'm a little leary of trying to swing one around w/ an 8' ceiling and a structural beam directly overhead reducing that to a little over 7'. So I got my 2-1/2# hand sledge and went at it. Barely even denting the floor. Went and took the rotohammer w/ the chisel tip to the floor, trying to cut some grooves across to where the pipe comes up. Tried again w/ the hammer. Still no dice.
This stuff is about the hardest concrete I've ever tangled w/! Not sure what to try next, either a 14" gas-powered diamond concrete saw or a jackhammer from the rental place! Guess I could try swinging a large sledge hammer while on my knees, but that's pushing the coordination thing a bit ;)
Monte