Wednesday a.m. I rang my normal sheet material suppliers (with whom I have an account) and ordered 10 sheets of birch ply and, because I was having the delivery any way, I ordered a few sheets of other stuff for stock. The company accepted the order and we agreed on Friday as the delivery day.
4pm Friday the driver rings me and asks what time am I at the shop til? I tell him I’m here til he gets here (I’m working this weekend and really need the ply, but would normally wait anyway).
5.30 he arrives, we back the truck into the shed and take off the tarpaulin. No plywood. The other stuff is there but the plywood that I needed is not. I ring the company and am amazed to get an answer, it’s the branch manager who I’ve had aggro with before.
I ask him when my plywood is coming- next Wednesday. I ask him, through clenched teeth, why no one rang me to tell me no plywood while there was still time for me to do something about it. He doesn’t know, he didn’t deal with it, there’s nobody else there at the office. That’s the end of it as far as he is concerned.
I flip out, tell him that he can have the other stuff back, slam the phone down, go out and tell the driver thanks but no thanks, take it back.
Next thing this a***hole has rung back, tells me do I want this stuff or not, because he isn’t sending it out again.
I tell him I don’t care, I didn’t particularly want the stuff, can’t be bothered unloading it and I will speak to his head office on Monday.
So, what about it, should I ring his head office? I can get this stuff elsewhere but don’t see why I should let him get away with such poor service, also I don’t think he has the power to refuse business.
John
Replies
John,
Is this the first time they have messed up an order, or is it an ongoing problem ? If its the first time, and they have been a good supplier otherwise, I would give them a little bit of a break. Anybody can screw up once in a while. If its been an ongoing problem, then it might be time for a change.
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
I don't think that the problem was a missed up order.The problem is that after it was messed up that they did not care that it was messed up nor care about fixing the problem.You are right about a mixed up order.It is what happens next.
Bill, I have an automotive question to ak you.
May I email you with it please?
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Eric,
Go for it [email protected]Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
Did they have any reason to know the timing of the shipment was important to you?
Are you a major customer of theirs? Or is 10 sheets pennt ante to them?
Based on whet is in your message only (and assuming there isn't more or that I'm not missing something) it seems to me you're having a bit of ####hissy fit and assuming that you are the center of the known universe. (Reminds me of a certain ex-wife of mine who shall go unannamed!)
But maybe I'm missing something.
Ahh. seeing some more after I posted:
I ring the company and am amazed to get an answer, it's the branch manager who I've had aggro with before.
From the original: >>I ask him when my plywood is coming- next Wednesday. I ask him, through clenched teeth, why no one rang me to tell me no plywood while there was still time for me to do something about it. He doesn't know, he didn't deal with it, there's nobody else there at the office. That's the end of it as far as he is concerned.
And after: >>The problem is that after it was messed up that they did not care that it was messed up nor care about fixing the problem.
At 5:30 on Friday, what did you expect?
Edited 12/3/2005 3:31 pm ET by rjw
At 5:30 on Friday, what did you expect?
In politics this is called 'answering a question with a question'. It's a technique that politicians use when they don't care to answer a question, or are unable to.
My original question was whether or not I should speak to the head office of this company. I've already made it clear that I was surprised to get an answer at all at 5.30 on a Friday.
No, I am not a major customer of theirs, not by any means. I spend about $10,000 a year with them. However, I expect that they make more margin on sales to me because I don't get anything like as much discount as the large users.
assuming that you are the center of the known universe
No, of course I don't think I am the centre of the universe, what a ridiculous question. What I am is a customer, a regular customer, one who pays his bills promptly. They accepted the order. When they discovered that they didn't have the material to send me (or decided to sell it to someone else) they should have had the courtesy to ring me and let me make other arangements.
Failing that, the guy should have at least tried not to have sounded like he couldn't care less. It would have taken him the same number of words. He is the manager of the office, as I pointed out earlier, if his staff **** up then it's up to him to take responsibility
How much is a couple of days work worth to you? Why the **** shouldn't I be annoyed about this.
John
If my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.
John,I agree that the customer service is not up to par but I think there was little the branch manager could reasonably do to get you your material on the weekend.Now the fact that you have to wait until Wednesday stinks but "flipping out" doesn't help the matter any.I would call your inside sales rep on Monday and let him know about the problem. Screw ups happen and the best way to resolve the issue is usually for both parties to give a little.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
The manager should have loaded the plywood on his own truck and delivered it personally.
Sms,If someone called you at 5:30pm on a Friday and said that they needed a not would you drive to their house for them?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
If a regular client calls me on a Friday night and really needs something, you bet I would do it, especially if I screwed up in the first place.
Always good to meet someone who lives in the perfect world. DanT
>>In politics this is called 'answering a question with a question'. It's a technique that politicians use when they don't care to answer a question, or are unable to.And in real life it's called "I'll ask a question rather than tell you I think you've got an attitude problem."Take your pick.>>Why the **** shouldn't I be annoyed about this.I'm not saying you shouldn't.I am saying you are what you are and if you were my customer I'd tell you to take your attitude and stress to another supplier. Life is too short to put up up with some folks.>>No, of course I don't think I am the centre of the universe, what a ridiculous question.Sorry if you think it was ridiculous. I think it goes to the heart of the matter because that is exactly the way you sound to me. Have a nice life....BTW, I'll betcha that supplier is telling his buddies at the bar... ah, never mind.....
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Bob
Are you a major customer of theirs? Or is 10 sheets pennt ante to them?
Bob, with all due respect, I find that to be the most irrelevant piece of information.
I'm probably the smallest contractor that Austin Hardwoods deals with, at least delivers to. I'd expect nothing less then the same treatment that their biggest customer gets. And that's exactly the way they treat me!
I believe that if they made a mistake like this the first thing out of Rons mouth to me upon calling would be "how can I fix this", if I needed the stuff that weekend I bet I'd get it, and not after throwing a fit.
At 5:30 on Friday, what did you expect?
That's second for irrelevant.
Take care of your customers, that's paramount! We all make mistakes, how you deal with them is what separates you from the others.
Doug
>>Take care of your customers, that's paramount! We all make mistakes, how you deal with them is what separates you from the others.I agree completely.OTOH, the customer isn't always right. I try to be very responsive to my customers, but I will only go so far.Sometimes the best business we do is the business we pass up.Life is too short and there is too much opportunity to waste time and effort on some folks.Maybe I'm reading this completely wrong, but it looks to me like he got exactly what he asked for.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Maybe I'm reading this completely wrong
It's nice to know that some things will never change
JohnIf my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.
While I think what happened is certainly poor service I think your reaction was a little over the top in order to get anything done about it.
5:30 on Friday? Wonder if the branch manager had had a bad week and by the time he got to you was just fried with little emotion or patience left to give. It does happen.
What Mike says is absolutely correct. I live in a small area where we have one small lumber yard chain store, a local yard that is tough to deal with and a Lowes. Everyone bitches about how dumb the help is at Lowes and what poor service they get. I get great service and know who the smart people are.
I follow a lot of what Mike describes and it works. I spend 50k a year their and treat them well. I also give out the little freebies, pens, key chains etc to all the key players I deal with.
Look these branch guys are just starting out usually and are somewhat overwhelmed by the whole service, manage people, make the budget deal. Not saying he was right but the bottom line in your business is still the bottom line. Finding a way to get what you need to make money is where it is at. Not grinding an axe that no one else cares about.
If you go to the national office you will never have a good relationship at that store again. And if you don't do business there, no one will know the difference. So who wins? You gain nothing from either approach and what you gain or lose is the bottom line. DanT
john... i used to have your attitude about how people treated me, and the service i got, or didn't get..
my wife has slowly but surely changed that... she has been a travel agent for more than 30 years.. she deals with adversity on a daily basis..
she makes a game out of getting recalcitrant clients to become her team members..
she has to deal with giant buearaucracies worldwide.... bus drivers who don't know where they are going.... travelers with sick kids.. hotels and planes that are overbooked..
your 10 sheets of plywood were important to you, no doubt.. but in the grand scheme of things... no one gives a shid but you and your customers..
now , your goal is to :
1: get even
2: get better results in the future
3: insure that the materials you need are on hand when you need them
which of the above are true ?... are they all do-able ?.... and even
how about... how do you want to spend monday ? getting your plywood ... or getting someone's azs reamed out ?... and who do you know in management that is actually going to give you a sympathetic ear ?
hah !..... your 10 sheets... do they represent anything of significance to anyone but you ?...
how much longer are you going to be in the business you're in? 10 years? 20?
how do you want to spend it... dealing with people who like and respect you, or dealing with people who have reason to dislike and avoid you ?... you have choices here.. choices that you have control over...
edit: BTW, the name of your thread is " best way to deal with supplier #### up,
and again..... that depends on your goals.... be goal oriented and the anwer will come to you... it sorta sounds like the Golden Rule... and the admonition to " turn the other cheek "
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 12/4/2005 6:49 am ET by MikeSmith
Wow... great advice Mike. I'm sure there's a bunch of us who appreciate hearing a voice of experience. It seems once of things about owning a business is that you automatically become a manager as well. It was obvious to me at first that I'd be managing my own guys, of course. But then I started to learn that it was also my job to learn how to manage all the other players who are part of my business. From the lumber salesman, to the GC's I work for, to the guy driving the Moffit who is delivering my lumber drops, even the guy cleaning the Porta-John.
I'm an admitted hothead. Who learned a lot about running a framing crew from an even bigger hot head. But I'm learning that you get more bees with honey than vinegar.
When I call for my next lumber drop my salesman always asks when I need it of course. I used to try to tell him all my problems about why we need it ASAP and probably sounded like I thought I was the most important azz on the planet. Now I just say, "the sooner the better but I know you guys are busy, so just do the best you can for me". I get the 7am trucks 95% of the time. And when the guy driving the truck and Moffit gets out of the truck and starts to whine about the site conditions and how he'll never make it up that hill. I tell him the same thing.... "just do the best you can for me". It seems to inspire people to really give you their best. And no matter how minor the task appears.... if it somehow effects my business at all.... having the party involved, however remotely, doing their best for me..... is making me more money than if they were disgruntled and resentful of me. And that's the bottom line.
exactly... and it comes back in spades..
i see drivers pull up and they're smiling... they might have a difficult task, but they know we're not going to make it more unpleasant..
the boom operator is going to try a little harder..
the truck driver is going to go the extra distance to make the drop in a good place..
i might be thinking... "man , this guy is so clueless"... but guess what.. he's the man... and the next guy may or may not be any better, so let's see how pleasant we can make this experience for everyone..
i had one boss... built an insulation manufacturing company from the ground up ( cellulose ..... early '80's ).. always showed a smile on his face.. always had an encouraging word... people whould always give their best.. and those that didn't would start to think they were in the wrong.. and try to correct their behavior..
it might be schmoozing... or it may just be treating others the way you'd like to be treated... and giving them the benefit of the doubt about their problems.. which of course, become our problems...
we don't have to be doormats either, if we don't get a positive reaction to our attempts, we can always move on.. without burning a bridge..
eventually.. they realize they may have blown it Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28667
Stacy's mom has got it going on.
"I'm an admitted hothead. "
Naahh. That can't be true. Hey buddy when do we see more pictures of your house? DanT
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=66663.1
Ask and you shall recieve.
Man, that came out looking nice. Sorry I missed it and didn't realize you had posted them. Great work. Done with the inside at all? DanT
Thanks Dan. I just created that thread in response to your request in this thread.
We're still plugging on the inside. We're at tile and paint right now. Should be able to move up there the week of Christmas.
"my wife has slowly but surely changed that..."
We marry sisters or something? :-) DanT
Me>>Maybe I'm reading this completely wrong>>It's nice to know that some things will never changeYou have that exactly right.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 12/4/2005 9:31 am ET by rjw
re: Austin Hardwoods. I buy hardwood and some ply from their San Antonio location, and it';s always little orders. I always pick it up, cuz nobody will deliver 50 bf of oak. :)
Anyway, they always treat me like I'm the biggest customer of the day. Very pro0fessional outfit.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Reminds me of a certain ex-wife of mine who shall go unannamed!
Reminds me of a t-shirt I saw once:
I never met a woman I didn't like, but I married some I couldn't live with.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Funny , this happens with at least 2 out of 3 orders I place, suppliers are pathetic these days.
http://www.shelladditions.com
We all cant handle things the same but heres what I do:
I take a 16 foot utility trailer to the yard and pick it up . I also inspect it and pick it over to get what I want . If they dont have it I pull to another yard and pick it. I get first class service that way and exellent materials.
Tim
Good point, Mooney. I can't remember the last time I ordered lumber and had it delivered. To me, you're just looking for trouble. They'll load the stuff right off the top that everyone has picked through, and that don't get it for me. I like to look at each board before I purchase it. And I charge my usual hourly rate when I'm picking up materials. John, you could have picked that load up yourself on Wednesday, and you wouldn't be having this problem. I'm not judging you, Bro, but from what you said, "aggro," "clenched teeth," "flipping out," etc. it sounds to me like this guy was doing the right thing to blow you off til Monday and not let your obvious anger issues ruin his weekend.
Allen in Boulder Creek
Send a complaint letter to the owner and let them know how you feel. They can do something about it, and will, if _they_ care.
And the next time a supplier goes out of their way to help you, send a letter praising the people responsible. It can make a huge difference in the way you're treated in the future.
Call the boss, and if needed, the owner.
It doesn't matter if they did or did NOT think you needed it...the agreement was Friday..no materials?? They should have called. Any good business person knows that. If you don't get satisfaction, never do anything with them again.
Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
I would bring my business elsewhere, so long as I don't end up hurting myself [pay more, waste more time, etc.] I have little patience for poor service. They need us, we don't always need them.
john... a couple things.. 1st... you've narrowed your options by your reaction..
if you had calmly stated the problem and your expectations, maybe the manager you talked to would have been more sympathetic..
really.. at some point or other, what could he have done to make your life easier ?
not much.. so when you over react on the phone , you lose the one thing you had going for you.. the sympathy of an overworked manager..
he has abunch of things on his mind.. if your goal is to get him to move your problem to the top of the heap... you seem to be going about it the wrong way..
you are not dealing from strength.. strength is Pulte doing 2 million a year with your supplier.. you're in the same boat as the rest of us.. standing in line for hind ####..
about 15 years ago i decided to change how i did business.. i took my measly little account and gave all my business to one yard.. and i made certain that everyone in that yard gets good treatment and a friendly attitude form my and my guys
at christmas i remember everyone in that yard that i do business with..
guess what.. when the chips don't fall my way.. i still get their gbest effort.. when mistakes are made.. i still get someone who will make an effort to rectify it..
now you demonstrated to two people , the driver , and the manager, that there is no reason for them to think kindly of you..
that wasn't your goal , was it ?
you were disappointed.. understandably so.. but what is your next move?
on monday.. i think i'd call the manager ....not his boss.. and apologize for your reaction.. and extend your apology to the driver..
i mean do you want them as friends , or adversaries ? your choice Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
on monday.. i think i'd call the manager ....not his boss.. and apologize for your reaction.. and extend your apology to the driver..
i mean do you want them as friends , or adversaries ? your choice
Thing is, mike, we are not talking about a of piece of my bad luck here, we are talking about a piece of don't care incompetence on the part of a branch of a national company.
Don't want them as my adversaries? Too late, when Friday 5.30 happened they were already my adversaries.
JohnIf my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.
I used to run a lumber yard. Family business . Then I bought it .
Small deal .
I dont wanna make this any worse but they were doin you a favor making that delivery. They would go out of business quickly if their average order was 10 sheets. Its the truth . They lost money on you as it is .
You make a living on framing packages, windows , doors ,siding , big item tickets.
Thats part of the reason I pull a trailer . Lowes are open long hours . You can load at 6am here and no waiting . You can be working by 7am with no delays . 10 sheets is nothing to pick up . I load bundles . I get cash and carry prices . The builders would be pizzed if they knew I was buying cheaper than them. The truth is someone has to pay for those deliveries and its not going to be me. The reg lumber yard and I have an understanding about that so the builders pay for it since they use the service,. My stuff gets deducted that price. But Im frugal and I get to pick over my stuff . Puts me in front of the line that thinks they are getting special service.
You could do it that way too.
Tim
I wasn't going to bother replying to the last set of posts, but I couldn't let this go-
Its the truth . They lost money on you as it is .
Totally wrong. As I pointed out earlier, they have a sliding scale of discounts, the smaller the order the higher the unit price.
JohnIf my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.
Yea , but they did show up with out the plywood.
Because they would even deliver 10 sheets doesnt mean they are making money.
All I know is I couldnt make a living delevering 10 sheets at a time . The profit is just not there .
If they are making so much money at it then how much is it at Lowes cash and carry? Whats the difference in prices?
Tim
Save your breath Tim.
No offense John, but you're not hearing it and don't want to hear it. It's pretty much obvious that you've made up your mind that the position you've taken is the appropriate one. That's cool. That's your right.
But this thread isn't about you wanting feedback on "Best way to handle supplier ****up", despite it's title. It's about venting. And that's fine too. Just don't get angry with the guys trying to help you.
I don't know what margin the lumber yard is working on. Maybe 5%??? So John's $10,000 yearly volume is worth $500 to the lumber yard/yr. They will move on without a thought.
John you are a small player at the yard. Better to try to work with it rather than but heads. But you will go try the next yard. And end up with the same results eventually. Has anyone in this thread thought that you did the right thing? Think about it?
Good luck
Tim
Your comparing apples to oranges.
Lowes don't sell cabinet grade ply, contrary to what they say.
I wouldn't use there cabinet ply for much more then my garage cabinets, and really don't want to use it for that.
I get the premiss of what your saying though and I wasn't privy to the conversation that John had with his supplier so I don't know how it went down. I deal with a supplier that delivers my goods and I'm very small potatoes for them, but I still get great service. Knowing what size I am to them does make me use some common sense when ordering, I usualy ask them when they'd be coming my way and work with that.
I'm sure that my load isn't the only one that they are delivering, I've seen the truck come to my place, usually has several other orders on it.
Doug
( I posted this to ALL, but failed to scroll down properly, and you can't "edit" that aspect)
I am a little guy too. When I started my relationship with my supplier, I told them up front about my expected volume, and I am sure that I probably pay more than other guys. They tell me the volume break is WAY higher, so that's cool. They have great stuff...good names. and I never get "top of the stack" peices. If I get something banged up or unusable, I call and they take it back, no questions. Of course I do whatever I can to use the slightly warped lumber in ways that it's useful so the returns are minimal.
And I call well in advance for my orders. I know I am on the perimeter of their delivery circle, and I always ask for the delivery "When they are in the area". They then say "Thursday", and I say OK, and schedule the work accordingly.
I try to help and cooperate whenever I can..I always help hump the stuff off the truck, and never make unreasonable requests, like "I need it tomorrow".
There have been instances where they forget to load something...never a situation where they just don't have it....they know when I call and earmark my quantities....and I have been left in a bind when that has happened. I called, and asked "what happened"...and my guy has said, "We screwed up..I am soooooooo sorry". And they make a special run with it the next day, or that afternoon if they can.
I have told them that I have been steamed, and that it wastes my time and money, because those items are needed to be installed in time for the next guy scheduled to do his work...and I don't want to loose HIS appointment...
I am very lucky...we both respect each other, which is half the battle, and we both understand that we want a relationship based on integrity...and THAT is, I think, the key. Making a phone call to warn a guy takes seconds, and it shouldn't make a difference whether he is BIG $ or small.
Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Edited 12/4/2005 5:06 pm ET by Lateapex911
Who then do you think gets top of the stack?
The builders get bundles or most of them. For example if the order is 200 studs they will forclift a bundle to the loading truck and take off the extra pieces. The only draw back there is for the builder is getting the top boards that has recieved the sun and weather and they are on the bottom , then get delivered to the top again if its hand unloaded but is nornally unloaded with a lift so it stays hidden.
The hidden boards get returned normally to the top of the bin stack if they are not cut up in to blocking . Question is , where do you use a warped stud? I dont and there are many reasons why its not worth it for drywall purposes. You can straighten so many in an exterior wall but theres a limit for its normally free work. Normally as you say the lumber yard will make up returns with out question so the easiest way is to put them on a return ticket and order more.
On small filler orders where you may need 4 studs load builders will load right back from the top of the bin to fill that order which doesnt quareentee any better studs than you recieved the first time.
Thats pretty much the system until the lumber yard chooses to sell the warped and crooked lumber at reduced prices .If you are getting straight lumber to start with you are fortunate.
Tim
I would say I get 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 that I have "issues" with. I try to use tehm in ways that won't hurt me..blocking, shorter peices and so on. But I do feel lucky that it's most often not an issue.
I do feel lucky.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
You're right John, its us, not you. Have a good Monday being mad at the world. DanT
I have been there cancel order go some where else but do not let the guy slide,
and tell the next co. the story [short] and tell them not to please let it happen again thanks.