Best & Worst Equipment You Drive/Run
The asphalt driveway thread brought to mind my competence with a paving box (a bit under average in driving said equipment around).
This prompted a thought on those peices of equipment I do have skills with. So, I’ll share.
Probably worst would be a backhoe. Just too many ways to tear stuff up. Or perhaps it was one too many experiences, in younger days, learning how ignorant of proper backhoe operation I was (am). Something about not being bright enough to not slide, in the rain, down the hill, into my own excavation. Or, why it’s not a good idea to drive with the bucket up in your field of view no matter how short a distance it is.
Conversely, I have rather a deft hand with a manlift, both scissors and boom-style. (Not one person has run off for seeing me with the keys, unlike some of my BH experiences <G>.)
Rather good with a skid steer, too, in its various guises.
Rough-terrain lift & wheel front end loaders I’m comfortable enough with, too. Neither best nor worst–but only about average.
On the average dozer, I’m not too shabby, but I’m much better at tearing things up, than having that deft hand a good blade man has to have.
Anybody else out there better or worse with construction machinery? Or want to be?
Replies
i think it has alot to do with how often you use it... even own'n a backhoe if i wanted alot of work done well I'd pay a guy to run his own machine... I've see guys who can do more very well in an hour than i can in a day on the same type machine
I have a few skidsteers and I'm better on any of then than any of my guys... maybe because i care... and am aware of where the #### of the machine is... but i make a point to make as few moves as you can to get the job done and i'm plan'n each move in advance... it's kinda a game but i'm also aware of grind'n the tires off since i pay for em...
I have a backhoe attachment for my bobcat and either it or I suck... cause not much happens when i'm work'n it for the effort... it's an older 909 but i just don't love it... plan'n on put'n on Ebay so someone else can love it...
welders, torches, plasma cutters, I'm pretty good with... but been welding since i was 13 (before that i got to chip slag off the welds made by others) but again... if i do it all day the stuff at the end of the day always looks better than the first stuff i did in the morning....) still work'n on the tig stuff but when i have time....
asphalt box I've only run a few times... I know this... a tracked machine will let you look better than a wheeled machine... a well cared for machine will do alot better than a worn out one... and the same guy on the same machine everyday will lay a mat alot better than anyone else... oh yeah good mix will make you look pretty good too...
hard to be good at stuff you don't do everyday... but if you understand the equipment and what you are try'n to do... and whats required to get a good finish... you might be slow but you can get good results
I'm often disappointed in stuff i have others do that A. they don't understand the basics of what they are doing... and.... B. they do it everyday and i feel/ or know i could do it better... being only one person sometimes you have just let stuff slide cause you're the only one that knows it could have been better...
pony
Caterpillar required me to learn to operate their backhoes well enough on a demo to be able to sell them. Week after week I'd spend a couple of hours after the monday morning sales meeting practicing, never did get my managers approval to demo them, I went to John Deere and immediately was able to operate the equipment smoothly. John Deere and Cat use differant motions on their controls and the John Deere controlls came very naturally to me while the Cat controls required a real level of concentration.
I found The Deere Dozer to operate much easier than the Cat dozer as well. That shocked me, I thought the Japanese made Cat Dozer would be superior to the American made Deere dozer since on paper it wins hands down. The Deere has a 4 clyinder engine while the Cat has a Six etc.
The real shocker to me was to try out all the various brands of Skid steers and find out how superior the Deere offering is..
Based on those things you'd think that I'd still be working at John Deere,
Well equipment is only part of the story. if the local management changes every six months and after less than a year you are the most senior salesman in the department something is seriously wrong.. The local dealers commitment to service after the sale consitited of lip service and a profit source, rather than any real effort to create service after the sale.
Still got a thrill operating some of Cat's giant mining equipment and some of those big cranes that I sold.. All that big stuff is fun to operate...
Building this place I had to get concrete up 16' and no crane or pump would come up the driveway. Rented an all-terrain forklift and a concrete bucket. Never even seen one before so the rental guy ran through the controls. "If you can drive a farm tractor..." Yeah right.
I told him to just leave it in 4x4. Went on up, squirrelly steering, but what do I know? Practiced while awaiting the first mud truck. Never did quite get a feel for the steering. Not quite predictable. Then I caught some loose fill and over it went. I bailed. Forks hung on a tree. Tires on one side 3' in the air.
Concrete driver was great. He wouldn't do it, but got me to run the forks up and down the tree while easing it forward and back. Finally settled with 4 tires touching. No time for a change of shorts, the mud was getting hot.
Fought that thing all day. Never went where I thought it should. Exhausted at the end of the day I headed down the driveway (1/2 mile) and noticed the rear wasn't tracking behind the front. Tried the lever that controlled operation and finally got it into simple 4x4, not crab. Sucker straightened out and steered right. Grrrrrrrrr
Tree's still alive. Scar is 14" wide, starts at 12' and goes up to 35'.
I'm real comfortable on both my hoe and track loader. Been in enough close calls with both on this mountain to get a feel for when I'm close to the edge. Redoing the driveway I twice had to winch the rear of the crawler sideways when the fill under the outside track slipped down the mountain. Good time to have a big winch (on the deuce-and-a-half).
Now I've got a 23k lb. rubber tire loader with an 8' wide bucket, 4in1, to adjust to. You don't generally see these things in the woods on a mountain, but I'm confident. Or at least still alive.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
squirrelly steering, but what do I know?
Having three kinds of steering can mess with your head. Then again, I sometimes feel like I'm the only one who appreaciates crab steerinf sometimes (which may relate to growing up with some ship handling, where the tiller is different than a a wheel). Or maybe having taken all of the forklift driver's tests on rear-steering forklifts helps. Dunno.
You're clearly tougher than I am, trundliung concrete one load at a time up the hill.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
You're clearly tougher than I am, trundliung concrete one load at a time up the hill.
Naw. Those readymix drivers are good. They brought all 300 yds or so up the hill to me, max 6 yds/truck or it'd slop out. Well, I shouldn't generalize. I only saw 4 drivers out of their crew. Less-experienced ones didn't qualify. 30% slope and a couple of nasty switch-backs. More than a few helpful assists with the crawler, which would have cost the driver his safety bonus so we kept it quiet.
That driveway was the product of a "professional" road builder and my $20k. Also the reason I started buying machinery and learning to run it. I talked to every road builder who'd come out, about what to do. Got absolutely nowhere. Rerouting was the only good solution. It's now 14% with no switch-backs and I got a rep as the go-to guy for difficult driveways. Mostly I sell driveway surveys.
I hope never to experience crab again. But you're right about rear steer, that's what my new-to-me loader is. Doesn't yet feel right and it's big enough that I'm keeping it well away from anything I don't want to move. But it's an odd thing, like the bucket controls on my two other loaders are backwards from each other. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, not that I could tell you which was which. Just hop on and go. Spend enough time on one and it feels natural.
There've been a couple of guys working here who claimed to be "operators" but clearly were capable only of pile moving. When it was necessary to actually plan an operation and carry it out, they failed. Eye-hand coordination is necessary, but not more than understanding what you're trying to do. Haven't yet figured out what's so difficult about the cut-on-the-high-side/fill-on-the-low-side concept. Just follow the stakes and keep it shiny side up.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I hope never to experience crab again.
Ok, through clenched teeth and bitten tongue, I will leave aside all of the potential response that straight line could have . . .
Crab steering has some uses, you just have to think about them in advance (or have all three "in your head" so one "pops up" as the right answer). What none of us wants is that fresh-from-the-rental-yard mix of all three <g>.
Here's my favorite use. You have materials that need to go up "there." The best place for the rig is right "here," except there's no room for the material to be lifted. No problem. Find the right spot to lift from. Now, crab over to the best spot to land the material. Grab some, and it's just Forward and Reverse from material to lift.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Capnmac,
Careful when a load is elevated movement needs to be extremely slow and careful. Most brands of forklifts aren't stable enough to do that anymore. Almost any brand built after 1995 has what's known as a rear axle stabilizer system. It locks out the ability to move with the boom above a certain angle. (Any forklift that lifts a tire during testing is required to use such a device. Ingersol Rand, the brand that I sell has no such requirement with the exception of our tallest forklift (the big 1056.) Even that model can travel with speed restrictions...
The trick to switching the steering modes from 2 wheel steer to 4 wheel steer to crab steer is to always make sure the rear axle is straight ahead before switching steering modes. You'd be amazed at the times I arrive on a job site and see the operator has the rear axles at one angle and the front axles at another and have no clue as to how get things better.
You'd be amazed at the times ... and have no clue as to how get things better
No, not really <g>
I've even been that person . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
VaTom,
If that was after Dec 1 1999 you broke the law.. All rough terrain fork lift operators are required to be licensed. Actually you'd be amazed at how many guys swear they know how to operate them and are licensed, yet are ever so grateful I sit around and show them how to operate them and keep an eye on them for a while..
When I started selling them industry wide there were less than 400 sold in a year, all brands fewer than 400!
Recently the industry built and sold 15,000 in a single year so there are now close to 200,000 rough terrain telescopic forklifts out there. My best year I licensed 35 operators and sold nearly 100 forklifts, you do the math!
You'd be amazed at how many people have the wrong idea about their operation and what they can and cannot do.
If that was after Dec 1 1999 you broke the law..
Nope. 1991. Bear in mind it was a rental, from a rents-everything place. All I asked for was something to get a loaded concrete bucket up 16'. Got what they had, of course. If it hadn't been in crab, I wouldn't have gotten into trouble. Lever said 4x4, but it never shifted out of crab. Not anything I messed with, just the delivery driver, even after I asked him to leave it in simple 4x4.
Clearly they had no business renting out the machine to anybody who called, especially saying that anybody who could drive a farm tractor would have no problem. As far as a law goes, seems something the provider might pay some attention to. No idea if they're still offering the beast for rental. IIRC, the cab and forks tilted up to 15°. After that I improved the driveway and pumped several times. Never satisfied with the pumped product, I now own a crane. Ain't gonna happen, but am I supposed to be licensed for that too? Like my Hilti powder actuated?
Sounds like a real effective law. Yeah, right. As far as having a wrong idea about what they'd do, I had no idea at all. Only what the rental place told me. I presume you told the buyers of the other 65 about the licensing requirement?
I tried to talk to LinkBelt about the crane. They disavowed any knowledge of it. As in, "please don't call again".PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
VaTom,
The reason the law was enacted was the increasing number of death and ijuries with telehandlers.. Unfortunely the enforcemnt agency is OSHA and we all know the level of success that OHSA has in policing residential construction..
Yeh, you were screwed when they didn't show you how to switch sterring modes Hopefully what I wrote informed you so that in the future you'll find the real capabilities of these machines..
Regarding the informing of buyers about the requirement for licenses,
Yes everyone is told and offered classes.. In the past I used to teach and grant licenses but due to liability reasons I can no longer do that.. If I were to teach you and you missed a key word or phrase because of a jackhammer or some other noise I would be liable.. Thus I can't do it. I still teach whenever someone will let me but they need to attend classes to get a license. In my 14 years of selling this equipment (knock wood) I've never had a tip-over or accident that caused injury.
I offered to write articles for fine homebuilding but they so far have declined.. Too bad there is a tremendous amount of capability wth this equipment when used to it's abilities.
Frenchy, thanks. I understood you. Also something I discovered accidentally, going down the driveway at the end of a very long day. This great rental co. also sent out a machine that they knew had problems with tires going down. If the mud trucks hadn't had air available I would have been really screwed.
"We know you can't place it, but where would you like this 30 yds of concrete that we aren't taking back and you're going to pay for?"
Unlikely I'll ever have the opportunity to operate one again. My construction is pretty much only for my benefit here and I've acquired enough machinery to lift everything I want. Too bad liability concerns stifle your teaching. LLC's work well in Va for that. I didn't mention to the rental co about the tip over. Didn't appear to be any damage to the machine, me either, other than my shorts. But when I bailed off, thinking it was a bad day to die, I immediately got started thinking about just how negligent the rental co really was. And that was before I discovered the steering problem.
Won't say much about the sponsor of this forum, which I do appreciate, other than I dropped my subscription from issue #1 quite awhile ago, with:
NORM ON THE COVER PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
darned useful lookin' fleet - - too bad you're not closer....
"there's enough for everyone"
Sorry about that. But when I hear about your stuff I think the same thing. I'm idly looking at sawmills. Gettin' difficult to get anybody to come out.
Picture missed the well-drilling rig, the small tractor with hoe, and the road graders. Not to mention my pride and joy deuce-and-a-half. I never intended it this way. Just when I got started here I lost so much money with crappy contractors that I couldn't figure out any other way to deal with my needs. Might've gotten a little carried away.
For instance, the first few years here DW (travelling sales rep) used to stop at the closest restroom before coming home. She couldn't be sure how long it'd be before she got to the house. Childhood disability, she's not a hiker. Driveway was so bad I had to pull her up with a tractor whenever it rained, and also if it didn't rain often enough. Signal was to lay on the horn for awhile until I heard it, hoping I wasn't running anything very noisy. When I finally learned enough to lay out a decent driveway (rising 400') I discovered that my old track loader wasn't up to the task. The one in the picture was.
Ripped up the front end of my little rubber tire tractor so often I figured I needed one that'd be hard to destroy. That 944 in the picture is a real horse.
Hoe was due to my being quoted $14k for a trench up here for utilities. Who'd wanna pay that much and not have a tool at the end? I made (saved) $13k in 2 months, that's after tax. Lot of money for me 14 yrs ago, still is. And now I'm comfy on the hoe. Nothing like practice.
Well-drilling rig was due to dissatisfaction with what the local drillers were telling me. It cost slightly more ($150) than one drilled well, and certainly wasn't worn out after the first one. The state tried to tell me I needed a license to drill. Took a couple of phone calls to Richmond to get the rule changed. Seems they'd never before run into anybody who bought a rig 'cause they needed a well. Made sense to me, even if I screwed up the first bore I attempted. Turns out the first rule of drilling, that I'd never heard, is if you "lose your air" (cuttings quit coming up) pull out and go someplace else to avoid the cavern. Otherwise you're likely to get your bit stuck. I did. Then I had to learn something the drillers around here generally don't know, how to unstick it. Real expensive thing to lose down there.
Seems I have more stuff than most around here, certainly anybody I know, but it really was accidental. And never very expensive.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Ford..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Hey, Oreo handles the big blue rig just fine. So, you're either a better instructor than operator, or she takes instruction better than you do. I'm not speculating either way.
Bet she'd run a crawler excavator just fine, though <g>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Decent on a skid steer, proficient with a crane, real proficient with a boom lift. I can work with a trackhoe... not as good as others... but dug a basement with a little (OK, a lot of) help and guidance from an experienced operator (wanted to see if I could do it).
Rubber tire hoe is my nemisis... must be a mind-block. Don't like the things... so I just haven't been able to develop the motivation to work at it.
Can drive a dump and do so without breakin' the frame on rough terrain.
All-terrain straight mast forks ... proficient. Nothing to write home about... but I can get a load up to the roof. Still getting the hang of a Gradall... need more experience.
Dozer.. I'm not allowed to run a dozer anymore <G>
Found out this week I run a mean trencher. 11 digs for conduit and gas for back-up generators.
Stump grinder; 6" chipper... just keep your distance.. everything will be fine!
Now... if I can just learn meself how ta run thatthere new fangled nail gun thingy... I might actually be able to get something done! ROF
Edited 2/28/2005 11:39 pm ET by Rich from Columbus
First dozer I ever owned was a 1936 model RD-6 Caterpillar....one of the first that boasted hydraulic blade jacks. I was 24 and fresh out of the Navy. I'd operated a Cat quite a bit growing up but had no experience with a truly worn out machine. (But the engine ran really good....what the hell!).
Engine was a 3 cyl. diesel with a hand crank gas pony motor. Crank handle was inserted below the radiator behind the blade. Learned early on that killing the engine with the blade elevated on a pile of dirt made restarting a real challenge.
Rollers and idlers were worn out and the left one would jump off if I got on too much of a sidehill. I spent more time jacking the damned thing up and getting that track back on than I did getting any meaningful work done.
But I did get a long driveway punched in and found another novice who paid me twice what I paid for it.
and found another novice who paid me twice what I paid for it
Ah, now there's the "trick" of it . . . the best equipment handling of all.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
That doggone ol' D2 I had in the early '70s.
Magneto on classic 2 cyl Cat pony would fogup if not started every few days in a Seattle winter - real big pain.
Clutch went out once, had to literally break the machine in half back of the engine (Major dissassembly job) to change the clutch plate, then stupidly left the Rops/Fops off for 'one quick job' in '74. Woke up 2 days later after a tree hit me (OK, I pulled it on my head), so that has to be my 'worst' machine experience.
Also got to rate that old D2 as the best, the fender was 1/4" plate, on investigation after recovery I noticed the tree had stopped just 1" short of making my head an omlet, bent the fender but the tree did stop on the fender just short of one dead Junkhound.
Like Frank, I sold it in '80 for nearly twice what I'd paid in '71.
I have this thing in my head about honesty and Karma, but that old Cat was one time I really KNEW that I'd sold someone a bill of goods, and I've suffered guilt since..
About a year after I sold it, I was walking thru the downtown in Eugene, Oregon and spotted the guy I'd sold it to from about 100 yds. walking toward me. I immediately ducked my head and walked the other way before he spied me.
The fact that I remember that after 30+ years says something about the deal I made...
And I spotted that old RD-6 a couple years later alongside Highway 58 all grown over with blackberry vines....the very ones the old guy had bought it for to doze out!
If this thread goes on much longer, I'll try to take the time to tell about the old Codger who sold it to me....and the logger and his lowboy who hauled it home for me. Quite an adventure!
If this thread goes on much longer, I'll try to take the time to tell about the old Codger who sold it to me....and the logger and his lowboy who hauled it home for me. Quite an adventure!
Watch out.
My first crawler was a crappy JD, not a lot unlike Junkhound's current pride and joy, that I couldn't keep bearings in the finals. Came to me for $1k and an old 20' box truck that I couldn't find a buyer for. When I finally realized I was spending about as much time repairing as running the JD, I sold it for $5k. Hey, it was great when it left here. Only person pizzed was the guy I got it from. He got stuck with the old truck, which we later dismembered. Still have a few pieces floating around.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Gues it wouldn't surprise anyone here that I can do just about anything with a farm tractor.
(-:
Actually, I can get on just about anything and do fairly well with it. Maybe that's because I've been driving equiment since I was 6 years old.
I particularly love bulldozers. Something about the power in them things appeals to me. One of these days I'm gonna own me one.
love bulldozers. Something about the power in them
Doesn't hurt that they steer almost exactly the same way, either.
My favorite "power" experience was driving an articulated Allis/Chambers front end loader configured as a (huge) forklift. The tires gave a very sure footing trundling across the beach sand, and the articulated steering made it feel right nimble, too. Power to spare, too. Enough to unbroach some landing craft (with a bit of block & tackle work thrown in).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I never did like articulated machines. They always seemed jerky to me. And I don't like not knowing which way the part behind me was pointed.
Girls are always getting mad at each other and they tell their hairdresser to purposely mess up another girl's hair. [Tasha]
And I don't like not knowing which way the part behind me was pointed.
Well, yeah, a "rudder angle indicator" always seemed like something that could be added--but the safety people would just likely tell you it's one more reason to "keep your head on a swivel" . . .
I always found that the best way was to "nose" along like a hound dog, just the least little left then right input to keep going along a straight line.
The "jerkiness" is probably related to the tuning of the control input too--the big giant JD 9600s have proportional input from the steering wheel to regulate how much input goes to the turning jacks. (Just think of what an 800/70R38 tire retails for . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
"Just think of what an 800/70R38 tire retails for . . ."
Unfortunately, I don't have to think about it. Even the cheapest rear tractor tires start at $500 or so.
Get up to the size you mentioned and you're looking at roughly $1,500 for a bias 6 ply to around $2,500 for a 10 ply radial. (Educated guess)
Q: What is the best way to tune a bagpipe?
A: With a pitchfork.
Manpower job during high school..Dudly Sporting goods..One forklift, one CUYD of softballs in a box, just offa the assembly line..one new kid...No brakes on said forkift ( Hyster IIRC)..lots apretty wimmin snickering at the "new guy" on said Hyster ( short for hysterical??)See new kid punch out at the almost destroyed time clock at 20 mins. after he punched in...they sent me a check..for about 2 dollars.Things got better when I decided to apply and attend Annapolis..LOL
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Restoring, Remodeling, Reclaiming The Quality..
up to the size you mentioned
Which, I must admit, I lifted from the UK JD site (the phrase "readily available" precdeded the tire size, so it caught my eye). The 9620 uses eight of those bad boys, too. The thought of signing that reciept makes my hand twitch . . . <g>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
about the power in them things appeals to me
A cousin and I came across a D8 sitting near a storage pond project near the Sangamon river by Springfield in the early 1960s. Us two teens pretty soon figured out how to get it started and pushed over a couple of 2 ft dia hickory at idle.
Chickened out and shut it off and got out of the area before anybody came looking to see who started their machine. Never had a D8 of my own (or even anything 1/2 the size, but sure is mean for raw power). Saw a D10 in the 80s when they were new on a demo for plowing in underground cable in Nevada ROCK! with a single ripper hook on the back. Heck, I probably could not afford one day's fuel for that thing.
When I was fifteen my dad was project manager over the LI. Railroad rehab from Montauk to Speonk. My brother and I spent the whole summer helping the master mechanic get the equipment ready and test it for the project start date in the early fall. We ran every piece of railroad equipment made. We even trained some of the new operators.
I don't think I have a worse one that I run.
Free Sancho!
Edited 3/4/2005 9:20 am ET by Gunner
I don't think I have a worse one that I run
Which is interesting, nobody in the thread has really come out and said, "I'm just hopeless in machine X; could sit in the seat for weeks, even under expert instruction, and still be hopeless."
I know I'll never have the "touch" to be a blade man, so box blades, road graders, things of that like, I won't even bother with. (I keep the names of a couple of great local blademen "in my pocket" for similar reasons, too <g>.)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)