This is just a rant.
Went to Big Blue the other day to pick up some materials to start a job. HO was with me, checkbook in hand. Said we wanted to rent their $20 truck (as advertised) to deliver, about 4 blocks away. “Oh, someone rented it and never brought it back, so we don’t have one anymore.” Oh, OK, this is the same multimillion dollar company that sponsors Jimmie Johnson’s race team, but they can’t afford to go buy a new panel truck to service their paying customers who happened to believe their ad? They don’t have insurance on their truck? Dump Jimmie Johnson, sell his car, and go buy a truck!
Today went in and asked the door specialist where the masonite slab bi-pass closet doors were. He didn’t have a clue what I was talking about. I finally explained it to him, and he said Oh, you can buy the doors here, and the track in hardware. I asked him where the jamb stock and casing was. He showed me the casing and said “here’s the jamb stock”, then he showed me the jamb stock and said “here’s the casing”. I didn’t say anything, just bought what I needed and got out. Blue Box is becoming more like Orange Box every day.
Replies
but they can't afford to go buy a new panel truck
I'm surprised they did not offer to deliver themselves--that's in their national advertizing, too. oh wait, on secod thought, if they haven't replaced their rental, that store's not likely to have their delivery truck available either.
Blue Box is becoming more like Orange Box every day.
I've never seen much difference between the two. If you have one of each, they seem to slip down to each other's level soon enough.
Mind you, I would have been tempted to go get the orange rental truck and pick up the stuff from the boys in blue.
But that level of satire would likely be wasted on a store that hasn't replaced its own truck . . .
I hate to say, you have to remember who you're dealing with. You go to the boxes for prices, not for service, knowledge of their products, diversity of product offerings, etc.
I used to get so POed every time I went to the local "H Dumpster", "H Cheapo", "Blowes", etc... now I just remember that the same person working in electrical just left the local Krispy Kreme that went belly-up, the manager is the ex "fry guy" who had a friend who worked at the big-box, and has now been there long enough to surpass all the others who left to go back to fast food. There's some good people that work at those places, but they're few and far between.
So... if you want the things I mentioned up front, you go to the local lumberyard (if it still exists). If you want low prices, go to the big boxes and put up with less than ideal surroundings and think of that happy place that brings you inner peace.
ever think about buying from a real lumber yard?
Jeff
Did you miss the part about "customer in tow - with the checkbook..."? The customer heard the advertising for cheap prices and they are doing the buying, while paying this guy for his time, so they get to pay twice as much overall instead of just making a phone call to a pro yard
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I had a framer stop by to pick up a layout last week. When he saw the name on one of the prints on my desk, he winced. Apparently the lady who brought it to me had aslo talked to him. She was kind of a dingbat. Kept asking the same questions over and over. And when I tried to answer them she kept interrupting me with other questions. She wanted to buy the trusses direct, but we only wholesale. She finally left, but left the print here. The framer who stopped by said she was only going to buy materials from the big boxes. He told her that if she did, he would charge more for framing the job. He figured he'd end up waiting on materials several times during the course of the job. The only way he'd bid it lower would be if she hired someone with a truck to sit there full time, so he could send them after materials as he needed them. Needlees to say, she flipped out and he didn't get the job. And I hope I don't either.Just thought y'all might find the story humorous, since we all seem to like bashing the big boxes here...
I think on-stage nudity is disgusting, shameful and damaging to all things American. But if I were 22 with a great body, it would be artistic, tasteful, patriotic and a progressive religious experience. [Shelley Winters]
"The customer heard the advertising for cheap prices and they are doing the buying, while paying this guy for his time....."
Pif-
You're assuming that Huck actually included in his bid the time he'd spend driving around with the homeowner to pick up materials. My bet is that he didn't.
IF he did include the time, he would have included shopping/ordering time in his bid anyway, even if he was buying material himself, no?
Nothing against Huck (don't know him from Adam), but I'm a bit suspect anytime a contractor has to go to any supplier with the client, have the client bring his checkbook to pay for materials, and rent a truck to move the stuff 4 blocks. Seems a little hokey to me.....
Bob
go to any supplier with the client,
have the client bring his checkbook to pay for materials,
and rent a truck to move the stuff
Good points.I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
"You're assuming that Huck actually included in his bid the time he'd spend driving around with the homeowner to pick up materials. My bet is that he didn't. IF he did include the time, he would have included shopping/ordering time in his bid anyway, even if he was buying material himself, no? Nothing against Huck (don't know him from Adam), but I'm a bit suspect anytime a contractor has to go to any supplier with the client, have the client bring his checkbook to pay for materials, and rent a truck to move the stuff 4 blocks. Seems a little hokey to me.....
Amazing how people like to read something into a situation:
Big Blue box is 4 blocks away - no lumber yards anywhere near as close. Job is T&M, not bid, so my time is covered. I could have taken materials in my truck, but it was enough to require a few trips. HO wanted to do it all in one fell swoop, his choice. Materials was several hundred $$, and he was willing to go with me and write the check, so I'm not going to complain about it.
And right now I'm not a contractor - Although I've had a B-1 General Contracting license with the state since 1989, my license is currently "inactive". I've got my bond and paid my renewal fees, but the state board is slow on their paperwork, so until they register my payment technically I'm not supposed to bid anything over $500 labor plus materials, which this job will definitely be.
Yeah, I could be like the cooler guys and sit around and wait for a job that's less "hokey", but my family has to eat, and this is a good little job for me - 4 houses down from my house, a small project, with this HO and several neighbors already lining me up for more. So call me hokey if thats what floats your boat, I'll plead guilty as charged.
Huck,Nevr heard of a "Big Blue Box" before. Is it like a Home Depot?Joe Carola
He's gotta be talking about Lowe's. They are blue, Depot's red.
I guess that makes all the pro yards white.
Gene,Maybe he is talking about Loews. I've never been to a Loews before. There's none around my area that I know of. I know there down South Jersey towards the shore area.Joe Carola
Get your eyes checked Gene ... HD is orange.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Is it? I'm colorblind (really.)
You know those eye tests they give, the whole page done up in little colored dots, looks like a Matisse painting? If you're not colorblind you are supposed to see, jumping right out at you, a big letter 5, or something?
I look at that and I clearly see a 77. The test is color coded so that certain kinds of colorblindness yields a clearly-seen other number. My results show a kind of blindness for red-green.
Not bad enough to mis-read a traffic light, but bad enough so reds and oranges look kind of alike.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
> My results show a kind of blindness for red-green.
Back in WWII, they used to send two spotters up in recon planes, one with normal vision and one colorblind. The colorblindness was actually helpful in seeing thru some kinds of camoflage.
-- J.S.
we got one true lumber yard in town, open 7 to 4. Five days a week, closed on weekend. sometime you just have to go to the box stores.
I recently worked a job in which the customer did not want to go to HD or Lowe's to pick out her interior French door; she didn't "like them." I gave her the name and number of my rep at the local lumber store and sent her to the lady. I just got the call today that the door is ready for delivery, and she paid my price (MUCH less than HD quoted me).
I've often had clients say they were going to check with "other suppliers" (I always use Mobile Lumber here in Mobile, AL), yet they have all come back to me and said "your supplier's price was the best." Well no duh! Do they think I'm gonna pay more than I have to when I bid materials?
BTW One technique I use to increase profits on some jobs is to use the quote from HD or Lowe's in the estimate and then use my local supplier when I get the job--I make 10-20% just on materials alone, not to mention the standard 15% markup.
One more thing...my sole employee just quit HD after being named "Associate of the Year." They gave him a raise of 43 cents that brought him to just under 8 bucks an hour...I pay him nearly twice that. He could tell you better than I the price and service discrepency between HD and local suppliers.Jason Pharez Construction
Framing & Exterior Remodeling
I like your new screen name! Unlike you, I wannbee an Ima
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Unlike you, I wannbee an Ima
I think the first step is hormone treatments.I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
ain't chew thinking Emma?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm thinkin Uma. UUUUUmmmmmma.Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
I got good service at H Dumpster the other day. Half the plumbing items I wanted were in the aisle with the pipe threading machine and the other half were in the aisle with faucet repair parts. Now the guy did not know how to build up what I wanted, but he knew right where everything was. We went back and forth twice. He did not have hose buy the foot so I had to get it at the mom and pop, who did not have all the fittings.
I love to take the HO to the box with her checkbook. She gets an appreciation for the run around and she sees other things she wants. She bought this ceiling fan that annoys her too. I just hung it ma'am, I didn't pick it out.
Such a true statment
" I just hung it ma'am, I didn't pick it out."
Had an HO pick out new hardware for shower remodel. Suggested not to buy a single handle device. HO comes in with a single handle "RAIN CAN" shower. I explained about the water restrictions??/ Blah Blah! Still wanted that installed and shower head raised 9 inches. Installed hardware, finished tile and doors.
Customer uses shower. 7:30 am Phone rings, I am now the &*^&(* Azz H%&* S.O.bee. "What did I do to the water pressure????"
"Well sir, I tried to explain what you would get with that hardware? "
HO" That 9inches of extension is causing this problem you lyin $%$&"
" Well Sir the problem is you purchased a showerhead and controls that is designed to give a "GENTLE RAIN SHOWER"( as advertised on the side of the box) " Not a Texas Gully Washer"
Had to go over and put a different shower head on to prove my point. HO signs off on work and payed.
The joys of the informed HO.
mk
I'm curious. Why aren't you dealing with someone like 84 Lumber or BMC West?
There's one 84 lumber in town, several miles away, poor selection and their prices are about double everyone else in town. Used to be a good supplier, and I dealt with them for about 10 years, but something changed about 5 years ago, they shut down one outlet (I think Big Orange shut them down, a real shame in my opinion) and let the other one go to pot. No BMC west in this town.
------------------
edited to add:
Terry Lumber and Terry Sash and Door used to be about the best supply house in town, until Stock bought them out. They've raised their prices, dropped their service, and let a bunch of their good sales people and drivers go. They're still one of the better suppliers, and on projects that merit it I take my business to them, but they're more expensive, not as close, and not worth passing up the convenience of the Blue Box (which, by the way, has some friendly, qualified and conscientious people on board at my local outlet) on this small job.
Edited 5/16/2005 4:29 pm ET by Huck
I have two "Big Blues" and one "Orange" that I can go to.
One of the "Blues" and the "Orange" are near a major university. Their employees can give every mathematical equation for framing a house but couldn't tell you the difference between a hammer and a hammock.
The other "Blue" I enjoy going to, even though it is further away, because they have more people working there that have experience in the trades. The guy at the commercial desk has 5 years of framing experience. Doesn't sound like much but at least he has some idea what your talking about. The guy in electrical holds a masters license and still does some work part time. In plumbing that guy holds a journeyman license. He got tired of getting phone calls at 3 am, but still does some part time work.
I think that one of the biggest things that makes a difference is in the upper management of the individual stores. If the upper management is sloppy it has a way of flowing on down to the people that work the floors.
DaneI will always be a beginner as I am always learning.
We have two Lowe's in town here, and the newest one, right by my house, is the best. Maybe 'cause they're new, they generally aim to please. I don't usually ask any technical questions (thats what I come here for!), just because I've learned not to. But they're clean, organized, and I can usually get in and out pretty quick. We had a HomeBase before they went belly-up, and I never liked them. We have two Orange Boxes in town, and I hate, I mean HATE them. I avoid them like the plague. But here in Bakersfield, the Blue Box has always been a step up from Orange. The deal with the truck was really cheesy, 'tho. "Someone took it and didn't bring it back, so we can't offer it anymore". I've spent some time in upper and middle management, and I've worked as a minion under some horrible managers, so I know your comments on management are right on the money.
Edited 5/16/2005 9:19 pm ET by Huck
that's a step in the wrong direction..
It's like anything else. Any organization is only as good as the people you deal with.
I guess I'm lucky. I have a big blue box that has a commercial guy that is really good. I send in a HO with a list... the commercial guy will walk them around to pick out the model of (whatever)... and then the commercial guy makes arrangement for my delivery. If the closest big blue is not the one he works at... he makes a phone call to the closest one and preps a rep and calls me back with a contact name for my customer, when they go in.
Conversely, I have several "commercial" suppliers in town that are so absorbed in themselves that they will not even let a HO/customer in the door to look at samples! I had one HO get a MOST unfriendly service from a rep at the "commercial" place. I called the place after told of my customer's experiance... and got a "sorry bout that... it was a bad day". Needless to say... I will not be using that supplier anymore. I am sure they will lose lots of sleep over it (cough)... but at least I will sleep better at night (and not get irate phone calls from my customers about a SUPPLIER to me!).
I don't have the ability to even REMOTELY carry with me enough samples to cover everything... nor do I want to. I do not always have the ability to go with a customer to pick out a faucet (or trim, or whatever). I expect my suppliers to treat my customers as well... if not better... than they treat me. I discuss my situation with the house BEFORE they become a supplier. So far... the best service I have gotten from any supplier is at my local Big Blue. (I guess I am lucky).
My suggestion, Huck... go and interview the commercial reps at your local big blue. Find one that is understanding of your needs. Deal with that guy/gal only. It makes life a LOT easier. BTW... I agree that the average worker doesn't necessarily have the knowledge needed to service a builder... but that is why they have commercial reps (although not all of the commercial reps are capable either... but they are better than the feller on the floor).
Thanks for the heads-up on the commercial rep, I hadn't thought of going that route.Actually, my local Lowe's is pretty good, usually. I don't generally have any call to deal with sales reps or floor people, only the check-out people, and they've been pretty good (just show 'em where the bar code is, LOL). Ours is probably their newest, or one of their newest stores, just opened up about 2 months ago, they're generally trying hard to please, and just a few blocks away from my house, so yeah, I'm gonna pick up some stuff there sometimes.Occasionally I'll ask what aisle something is on, and they can usually get it within a 3-aisle proximity, which is close enough for me to find what I'm after. I just thought it was funny that the door specialist didn't know the difference between jambs and casing. But he did show me where they were, which was all I needed.My rant was really about the stupidity of them not having their truck available, after advertising it, because someone stole it. They're a big company. Get another truck and get over it. It just seems silly to me that a multi-million dollar corporation can't replace a truck and get on with business.But for some reason, mention Lowe's, and some guys want to chastise you for not shopping at a real store, and assume you're some kind of hokey pokey fly-by-nighter or something. For drywall and insulation products we have Cal-Ply, and I've been dealing with them for 15 years now, always good products and generally good service. For doors, windows, columns, door hardware, I deal with Terry Sash and Door (only now they're called "Stock") because I've been dealing with one sales rep there for 15 years also. But when I've got a small job requiring a little framing lumber, sheetrock & mud, insulation, plywood, trim, a couple of masonite slab doors and hardware (for a garage closet), etc., I'm gonna run down to the Big Blue box a few blocks away, get what I need in one trip, and get to work. I'm sure if I was a prima donna I'd run to cal-ply for the sheetrock, order my doors at stock, pick up my framing lumber at 84 Lumber, head over to Dunn Edwards for a can of primer, etc., etc. But its a T&M job, and the HO wanted to come with me and see what I was buying, so I'm OK with that. Especially since I just emptied my bank account at a yardsale of all places. Ran into a contractor who broke his back in a motorcycle accident, and wants to close the chapter on the business, and just travel light. So I pretty well cleaned him out (got a fantastic deal on some nail guns, bessey clamps, stationary belt sander, etc.), but he cleaned me out too, if you know what I mean!
Edited 5/16/2005 9:26 pm ET by Huck