Couldn’t get onto BT this morning for a while. After going through an hour or so of withdrawl, I finally got logged in and saw that Knots has had a major upgrade.
They have an all new forum, and a “members only” section restricted to subscribers to the magazine.
So I got to wondering – Is there a similar change planned for Breaktime?
The four building blocks of the universe are fire, water, gravel and vinyl. [Dave Barry]
Replies
Boss,
Currently we are so wrapped up in getting this off of the ground I can't imagine even thinking about another...
By that do you mean you'll NEVER do it, or just not for a heck of a long time?Not trying to say you should or shouldn't - Just curious.
I can't say I've ever been lost, but I was bewildered once for three days. [Daniel Boone]
i'm glad to know it wasn't just me. i had to reregister and tweak my username (i'm MSM).but the woodshed Tavern doesn't even show up as an option for me now-
and when i try to find tech help by going to FAQs, the pages won't load and i get an Error msg.
i'm sick with sinusitis and having to go through withdrawal too.
can anyone help me access the tavern?
Email Mark at: [email protected] and he'll get ya straightened out.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. [Edmund Burke]
just spent a little time over at knotsreminds me of the JLC forumshave to check a "million" places to try and cover overthing.pay $60/yr for more access, hahthe pro's here are more than generous and helpful, just getting one guy to respond (assumption) ain't worth $60/yrpeople had enough pain going to propero, the new knots format?ouch
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
If you adopt a subscribers only policy, could it be site-wide, please? FHB subscribers, for instance, sometimes have questions that are better addressed by the FWW knowledge base, and vice versa.
I'm sure glad I got the skinny on how to make hard boiled eggs peel correctly before this thing hit.... ;-)
-- J.S.
but what about the people that buy off newstand, are we going to get discrimnated2+3=7
BB,
There is a $60 annual (or $8/month) subscription to access the Members Only area of the site. Doesn't have anything to do with the magazine subscription. Sounds pretty pricey to me.
Don, I think if you read the fine print, you can enter your subscription account number and get access.
I hope I'm right. If not, they won't see me in there.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Fast Eddie,
Nope. The $60 fee is over and above the magazine subscription. If you don't subscribe to the mag the fee is $75/annually.
http://www.taunton.com/ecommerce/offers/fwn_subscribe.aspx
I normally don't visit any sites that force me to register, especially if I have to remember a username and password. I almost opted out when they recently forced me to re-register.
I'm positive that I'd take a pass on paying and registering and username and password. I'd rather they bombard the site with advertising.
I do waste too much time in here too, so like Haz, it will be a nice time to make the break.
blue
"'I'm positive that I'd take a pass on paying and registering and username and password." It's a good thing you won't have to take a pass since no one is asking you to pay! This forum hasn't changed a bit and there's no fee to play. Everybody gets that now, right?It's almost absurd to keep repeating this, but here goes: The Breaktime and Knots forums are free. Free to read, free to post, free to share with your neighbors and grandkids.Stace Caseria
Copy Writer
Taunton Interactive
As I stated in my post #33, the subscription fee is for the Members Only area of the site and the site under discussion is Knots. I got it.
Yep, you're on board. We just want to get the message out that the forums are still free before folks make drastic declarations that they're leaving us for good over a misunderstanding. Without the feisty participants, Breaktime wouldn't be any fun. Well, not as much.Thanks,Stace Caseria
Copy Writer
Taunton Interactive
Stace,
Here's a thought. You're the copy writer. I'm not sure exactly what all that entails, but how about writing up the entry into these forums so newcomers don't have such a seemingly difficult time. You've got moderators here that don't even know the protocol.
Now I realize your jobs depend on the maintainance/designing/modification/etc of these forums. So I also understand your excitement to #### with the setup.
I have to agree with paul. Sometimes you forget your audience.
But as usual, how the heck would I know. Just a dumb carpenter.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
calvin,
" how the heck would I know? just a dumb carpenter?"
Imagine how "I" feel---- I'm just a dumb roofer----which has always been several notches below carpenter on the " intelligence scale"
however----don't think for one SECOND that they have forgotten their audience------- they haven't.
It's just that YOU and I---are NOT their audience. very, Very ,VERY clearly Taunton sees their audience as the cubicle dwelling diy'ers stealing time from their employers and logging onto " breaktime" on the company clock.
you and I have not been their target audience for ---what ? 5-6 years now?---- they notified us of that change by putting ferns up in the Tavern.
stephen
I'm a bit late to this thread. Wonder why??Monday I could not get into Breaktime. I typed in my name and password (which I do everytime I come...by choice) and got an "A processing error has occurred page".I assumed this was a problem with the site and went to work. Monday night the same thing. Tuesday morning, etc.At some point I checked Quittin' Time and didn't see any discussion of Breaktime being down so I figured it must be me.At some point I tried registering and it wouldn't let me because my email address is already registered. So I tried changing my password. No effect other than I now have a new password. (my original password was eight letters).I deleted all of my cookies (seems like Luka tells someone to do this with regularity, so what the heck. It needed doing anyways). No change.Finally, on Thursday morning, I took the time to call the 800 number on the "A processing error has occurred page" and I got a real person!!She asked for my email address and then infomed me I wasn't registered. I tried to explain that that was impossible and she finally gave up and transferred me to someone else.I didn't get the second woman's name, but she was very pleasant, patient and seemed to know what she was doing/talking about.She had me dust off Internet Explorer and it logged in without problem! I explained to her that I was violating my religion.So, my Opera 7 that I downloaded a year or two ago wasn't able to navigate Breaktime, but Internet Explorer version 4 something or other dating from 1998 (? I'm running Windows 98 and that's where I got this version of IE) got in just fine.I promptly downloaded Opera 8.5 and I get into Breaktime just fine.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
"Without the feisty participants, Breaktime wouldn't be any fun. Well, not as much."
I guess that's why you guys instituted floating policies.
http://bootliquor.com/
You guys keep repeating that nothing has changed when in fact, it has!When the change happened at Knots, it became harder to navigatre around in that set of foirums, and to get in here at BT, I had to figure out how to get in afgain. This cost me about a half hour of my time and frustration. That was a change. It could have been avoided, or if it was aqctually necessary to change from requireing a 7 character password to an eight character minim,um, the polite thing to do would have been to send an email alerting to this, instead of forcing me to endure the frustration of being locked out, making a half dozen vain attempts to log-in, and finally clicking on 'forgot your password?' which I had not forgotten....The whole thing was just plain rude to be locking me out with no notification, or hint how to get back in, and then to be told that nothing has changed is pure plain BS! It would be nice to see a simple, "Sorry if this caused anybody a bit of inconvenience" note, but instead you all keep alleging that nothing has happened. That is a cold slap in the face with a wet dirty dishclothe.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
heh heh heh
Piffin, sometimes you are so funny.
ROAR!
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Hey! I see you finally found a waay back.
is there a hole in the fence that I missed?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Might be a hole.
Sawyer whitewashed it so I can't tell.
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
so now we can't find the way back out...;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey Paul, calm down, it could be worse. They might start chargin' people <W>.
Be with 12 ya get eggrolls
andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
Just telling them like it is.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Andy, I don't care if they charge us dollars, but I ain't giving up none of my hard earned milkbones!
blue
Hey...when the Piffmiester gets angry we better batan down all hatches...I ain't seen him like this......uhhhhhh, ever?
And who can blame him with all the times he has invested here...more than a whole lot of people at Taunton I'm bettin'.
Maybe ya better share some milkbones with him : )
Be generous
andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
Catchy name :-)
Actually I almost used UtahDon.
"Don, I think if you read the fine print, you can enter your subscription account number and get access."Only a discounted rate."Special Offer for Fine Woodworking magazine subscribers
$59.95 Annually
Uninterrupted access, billed to your credit card at the start of each 12-month cycle. We'll send you a reminder email before your membership is automatically renewed. If your subscription to the magazine lapses, you will be billed at the non-subscriber annual cost for the remainder of ""$74.95 Annually
Uninterrupted access, billed to your credit card at the start of each 12-month cycle. We'll send you a reminder email before your membership is automatically renewed. "However, it does not cover access to KNOTS.Rather it is for access to the FWW archives and some other special items.This is what is in the members only area." * 1000+ articles from Fine Woodworking
* Tool reviews from editors and readers
* Tool buying advice from the pros
* Expert answers to your questions
* Skill building videos on all subjects
* A furniture gallery to inspire you
* Workshop tours & interviews with noted woodworkers"
Does this mean they'll be able to afford to pay for moderators ?
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
Be interesting to see if this flies amd if there is sufficient value for the money, which is decidedly more than the magazine subscription.
Don, if I understand it right, most of the forum remains exactly the same.As it -already- is, if you want to read certain articles online, from the magazine, past and present, you have to pay per article. I think there are a couple other things that have to be paid for.I -think- what is going on is that those things have been bundled with a few other things, and the result is what the subscription is for.Everything else, while it might end up with a new look, stays basically the same.I might be wrong. But that is how I understand what I have read here.Hey the only thing I really know for sure is that I STILL don't have access to the cafe, after asking three times. LOL I think I must be unofficially banned from there.;o)
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
Yup! Same same except for MO area. Noticed a lot of negative comments about the additional folders, though. Change comes hard sometimes.
if I understand it right, most of the forum remains exactly the same.
Funny, for something being the same it sure is different!!!
I cant find jack over their.
Doug
I went over there as soon as I read the first post here.At first glance, I absolutely agree. It looked very complicated.But once I got past the entry stuff, and back into the forum itself, it still looked just the same as it always did.
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
>But once I got past the entry stuff, and back into the forum itself, it still looked just the same as it always did.Not to me. The extra categories requiring extra clicks caught my eye right away. No matter how ya slice it, those extra categories are not efficient design. It's inefficient. At MOST, they should have two categories: the free component and the paid component.
I understand and agree with the point that extra categories are not an efficient design.But tell me... How long does it take to notice the extra categories. Then click on them. Decide whether you are going to ignore them from now on or not.. Etc ?About as long as it took for you to do the same for the previous extant categories ?People are acting like they're being asked to cut off their own leg...Happens every time even the smallest change is made.It's the end of the world !!!
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
Yes Luka----but you are not accounting for the fact that YOU are considerably more skilled at computer bullpuckey and navigating these systems----than some people( me for instance)
A couple days ago I logged on---came to the initial part where the most frequent discussions are. there were 2 I wanted to read---maybe items 1 and 3 on the list of recent discussions.
i read the first one---by the time I went back to click on the second one---it's gone---poof---disappeared. I went through all the folders---never found it.---what's up with that?
Next day I stumbled across it--finally.
My---isn't this convenient for the user. LOL
Stephen
Point taken.A suggestion for the circumstance you describe... Right click on each link, and choose to open in another tab or another window.Right click on one, open in another window or tab... then go back to the original window or tab, and right click on the second one and open in new window or tab.You can keep going back to that first window, and right clicking to open in a new tab or window, for as many links as you wish. This keeps the first window exactly the way it is until you choose to refresh it.
A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon. - Napoleon Boneparte
Luka
I'm guessing that if you see the site as very similar you don't/never really spend a lot of time over there.
I see everyone from taunton over there scrambling to sell the idea that its the greatest thing since sliced cheese.
If its so great why they selling their collective azzes off? Shouldn't it sell itself.
I don't care how they handle the thing, its there toy and they can play with it anyway they want. One of the benefits to having/owning something. It doesn't belong to us.
They could have very easily left the old Knots part alone and added their "pay per view" thing if they wanted. I'm sure the "new look" is something they felt that they needed to do.
Hell they don't me to make this place a success, I can find other things to do with my time. When it becomes to much of a hassle I'll go elsewhere. Wont make to much of an impact on things I'm sure!
Doug
Oh, BTW, seen your e-mail, I'll respond when I have a bit more time.
Luka-----
ya might as well be speaking Latin to me.
I am sure your suggestions would be helpfull to someone else---but to me?---complete gibberish.
which is of course, my point.
8 years ago I bought a computer---with zero experience---opened the box, got it hooked up and was logged onto " breaktime" --in about 2 hours total.
could I do that NOW?
no way----so how is the site improved?
the content isn't any better---in fact, the case could easily be made that the content is now WEAKER----and the site is infinitely harder to navigate.
Of course ---now we can post a tagline in COLOR--------Whoopie,---THAT'S important !(not).
think about this-----------I have a bankaccount with a certain bank branch-----I have had it since I was born 43 years ago.-----In 43 years that bank branch has been owned by 6 different Banks( through mergers etc.)
how many different computer systems has that bank gone through in 43 years?????
Yet Somehow------- the bank has NEVER required me to close out my account and open a new one---never.----Yet HERE---register, re-register, re-re-register----new password, new this, new that---------they have done this TWICE since mid August alone---------- how come the banks can manage this----but Taunton can't?????
Stephen
I don't know if this is intentional...I had to log in again at the beginning of this week. Not re-register, just sign in again. But I DID have to know my password, because I had to enter that as well. (I am wondering if people are having to re-register because they don't remember/write down their passwords ?)For a couple days, everything was normal...Now, for a couple days, I have not had to do the extra clicking when coming in here.For quite a while it was a matter of >Click the bookmark link >>wait for the login screen. (login screen came up with name and password already there) >>>Click login >>>>Wait for login process to finish.And since I have my browser set up to notify me if I enter or leave an encrypted page, I also had to click two of such notices.Now... I click the link, and I come right to the forum. Already signed in. No more other clicks.As I said, I don't know if this is intentional or not. But I do know that Mark has said a time or two in the past that he was going to try to get prospero to fix that.If it is intentional, we CAN count that as a good thing, no ?=0)
A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon. - Napoleon Boneparte
A good thing?
I don't know about that----the BANK doesn't jack me around this much---and my MONEY has been safe there for 43 years.
Perhaps the Bank---sad to say---is willing to make at least a token effort not to pizz of the users of it's services
where as Taunton--- CLEARLY doesn't care.---- they just run out and endless string of "Bagdad Bobs"--- proclaiming " you are NOT being inconveinenced, you are NOT being inconvenienced. The new way is better----there are no bugs in the system" Blah, blah, Blah.
Best wishes,
Stephen
"where as Taunton--- CLEARLY doesn't care.---- they just run out and endless string of "Bagdad Bobs"--- proclaiming " you are NOT being inconveinenced, you are NOT being inconvenienced. The new way is better----there are no bugs in the system" Blah, blah, Blah."Great explanation!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
" 65872.80 in reply to 65872.79 I don't know if this is intentional...I had to log in again at the beginning of this week.Not re-register, just sign in again. But I DID have to know my password, because I had to enter that as well. (I am wondering if people are having to re-register because they don't remember/write down their passwords ?)"I think it is more bnecause absolutely n o announcement was made ahead of time about the changes and we were left confused. I accidentlaly found a way in by clicking the 'forgot password ' button and then being directed to a place to change my password. others, facing the same frustration, confusion, and dilema, probably figred that re-registering was the only way in since that was the only other button available. Maybe you and others already had passwords having 8 or more charachters which coincidentally made it easier. The rest of us were locked out in the cold with no hint of how to get in. The whole experience was about as rude as I have experienced in my years on line
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
True. I do have already a longer password.Hmmm I'm wondering if it even occurred to any of TPTB, that that would be a problem.
A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon. - Napoleon Boneparte
>People are acting like they're being asked to cut off their own leg...What do we gain from this hyperbole?I didn't exaggerate. I think I was pretty straightforward. I mentioned a "feature" that may be good for something, but not for the user. I don't care if the clicks can happen in 4 seconds or 6 seconds or 2 seconds--it's more stuff to do every time one visits...either do, or ignore, along with all the content that might or might not be there. And it's not like I say this without some qualifications in the area either...software design and information organization was my prior career, and I have the international awards to show for it. Doesn't mean my opinion as a stinkin' user of the forum counts more than any other, but it is offered with a basis in specifically relevant experience.The disturbing thing is how these types of changes are effected, and anyone who voices a dissenting opinion is responded to as we've seen here and in the knots thread on the change. So our motivation for offering feedback is...what?>About as long as it took for you to do the same for the previous extant categories ?Nope. Not even close. It is less efficient and adds no benefit to the user. But I know I'm wasting my bits and bytes be/c the powers that be appear more interested in imposing and defending their changes than in getting user feedback.By their "give it a chance, you'll get used to it" attitude, rather than a "what do you think of this?" approach, we see all we need to know about the desire for feedback. It's fait accompli.Edit: I actually measured: http://forums.taunton.com/fw-Knots/messages?msg=33016.28
Edited 11/18/2005 2:16 pm ET by CloudHidden
Hey Cloud,
I have not posted to this discussion yet because I have been extremely busy trying to resolve the myriad of technical issues that have arisen. Things have finally settled enough that I have time to try and catch up with everyone's comments.One item of interest, to me, that you make in your post is that you say we are not trying to gather information from the users about how to improve things. I did just that yesterday. http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=33016.1 I started a discussion on how we could improve things and I will offer up the same here in Breaktime. If you have ideas on how we can improve the existing format and make it more user friendly we are open to those ideas and will implement them as best we can that is always the case. This might be our "house" but you live in it, so it should be comfortable to you.I would like to take a moment and explain some of the "why". The main reason we had to go to a multi forum format is because of a limitation with the software. We are unable to have more than 16 folders. Over the past year we received many requests from the users of Knots to add additional folders. We where maxed out with the number we had. So rather than ignore the users requests we did the next best thing, we created a multi forum format. This resolved the folder limitation but created a usability issue that was not apparent to us until we went live. When you are this close to a project it is easy to loose site of user issues. Why not have users test drive the site prior to launch? Well that was part of the plan from day 1. We had compiled a list of "power users" that we had every intention of giving access to the site. The main purpose, of these powers users, was to bring to light any usability issues. In the end we ran into 2 technical issues that did not allow us to implement the power user plan. This was extremely discouraging to us here but there was nothing would could do short term and rather than delay the launch of the site for a couple of months we launched.Immediately we started to get negative comments regarding the change and we all went into defensive mode, as you pointed out. When you have worked so hard, for so long on something that you feel is truly great and your most valuable users start picking it apart its hard not to go into defensive mode. Have we learned some lessons? You bet! The most important one is that we absolutely will be doing usability testing, with real world users, prior to going live, just as we had planned to with this launch! We are already working on the issues that prevented us from implementing this power user plan.I hope this starts to explain the why and the how of what happened to the Knots structure but as always if you have further questions please don't hesitate to ask.
Thanks for a sane answer. I can deal with that a whole lot better than "you'll get used to it". I can get used to all sorts of painful things, but of course that's not the point. <G>Before my prior posts I checked the Sandbox to see if I had missed a "test" of the new categorization there. I can understand that some things aren't possible for technical reasons. And I can understand everyone having good intentions. Sometimes those don't converge to best effect. Sometimes they do.In this case, I coulda given the same feedback from a few fake screens...didn't need to be a live implementation.Just from a conceptual information organization point of view, it seems like y'all are solving a categorization limitation of the software by adding a new layer of super-categories. I'm guessing you used the prior mechanism for jumping from Knots to BT to Cooks Talk, and have moved those up to the header via html (all the new Knots super-categories are now forums in My Forums). But creating super-categories adds a layer of overhead, much like adding a new layer of management within an business organization. That seldom makes the organization more efficient. Usually just means more work.Rhetorically, it's hard to imagine a usefulness for more than 16 categories. That's a pretty fine gradation for most people to process. Looking at BT, which we've been told will "benefit" from the same change, only 7 or 8 forums have any active content. To not be able to find an organization that covers things sufficiently within 16 categories seems a stretch. By adding super-categories, I'd expect that each of the lowest level categories will get less traffic...fewer eyeballs...and that's to the detriment of anyone posting a question.Were I King, and I freely acknowledge I'm not privy to the goals of Taunton, I'd keep the technical changes y'all made, but have only two super-categories: Free Content and Paid Content (whatever you wanna call them, perhaps General and Member's Only). For the current user, it would represent no change at all. For those interested in the subscription service, it would make the distinction between that and the free content crystal clear, and even elevate its status. In Knots now, the Members Only stuff looks like 1/7 of the content (one of 7 super-categories). Making it one of two would increase its importance. I'd be really surprised--shocked--if Knots or BT couldn't be properly represented with the permitted 16 categories.Best wishes and best of luck. I can remember with mixed emotions the user testing and beta testing processes we followed at my company. I think I have PTSD (Post traumatic...) from it. I'm in a new, calm industry now...building! :)
" Over the past year we received many requests from the users of Knots to add additional folders."This reminds me of one of the principle reasons cited for changing from Webx to Prospero: people wanted a better search engine.Which was true, but...If the people that wanted the search engine improved were asked what cost they were willing to pay....???Were the Knots users wanting more folders asked what "cost" they would pay?Steve makes the excellent point just above that the target audience is no longer pros. It would be refreshing if Taunton's representatives were more forthcoming about this instead of attempting to explain that you are interested in pro's Breaktime experience.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
I'm curious if the target audience wanted to pay sixty bucks a year for the special members section.
http://bootliquor.com/
I'm curious who the pros are the get accessed for sixty bucks
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I don't know it would be pretty foolish to pay for it though.
http://bootliquor.com/
Shhhhhh.........! I was gonna offer to answer questions for 60 bucks. Doesn't mean the answers are any better than you get now for free, but I could try....PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I was thinking about being on the recieving end...
'course, I'd have to clean up and shave, maybe use the spell checker occasionally
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Why, you looking for a job?
Why soitianly !Nyuk nyuk nyuk.First thing I'd do is ban all the anonymous registrations made with hotmail and other throwaway email accounts.;o)
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
excuse me but that's soitainly.
Second thing I'd do is ban all those who have nothing better to do than point out typos.;o)
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
Looked more like misspelled to me you friggin' pirate!
Yeh, I went over there last night. So big deal. What a buncha friggin' cry babies. Hard to navagate but they can build houses and talk politics till Boss Hog buys a green tractor but they can't deal with the new site. Cut me a break. LIKE BREAKTIME,ITS FREE!! You have to pay for the extras. thats why they call em' extras. And how much do they pay for that CD over at JLC????
Be Free
andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
Ttha's waht a tpyo -is-.My dylseixa got in the way, and the psot was so sorht, I ddin't boehtr to poroferad it.=0)
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.
Edited 11/15/2005 8:50 pm by Luka
John, I always figured there was a secret to that, so spit it out before I have to pay here too.
High elevation edition please, 5600' here.
Joe H
The main secret is to use eggs that aren't too new. A week or more past the sell-by date is what they recommend. Poke a pinhole in the big end of each egg, put them in the water with the hole end up. Add a pinch of salt to the water, have enough water to cover the eggs 1" deep. Bring to a boil, let it boil on a very low flame for 12 minutes. Then transfer the eggs to a big bowl of ice water to cool them as fast as possible.
That's the quick summary of a thread 77 messages long.
-- J.S.
what's with the change ? I had to reg & redo my password to get into breaktime then when i got into breaktime ...I could not get into knots. what's up with that??? can't ya give a guy some notice???? please reply thanks...Bill D. on the Chesapeake Bay
...you can't get there from here....at least not without a few more clicks...
I spent some time trying to get ovr there this morn and right now , I'm going to have some more free time as I don't like the new layout at all
Yeah, they were'nt ready to endure the gripes you constructioneers would deluge them with, pinky pointing woodworkers are less easily riled.
Your time will come, nail bangers, your time will come...,
Lee
Just snooped over there...first impression was, "what an awful change". Why would they keep making things less convenient instead of more convenient? Yuck.
"Why would they keep making things less convenient instead of more convenient?"because they can.me thinks someone is enamored with technology, as opposed to what makes sense.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
it would be interesting if sysop or a moderator started a poll in BT to see if folks here liked what was happening there
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
Bob, you should direct that idea to Mark, perhaps he will oblige.
I'm not fully settled into the new forums over there yet, but I think it's nice. I like the idea of the discussions getting more focused by adding more categories.
To answer the other question: There are plans to create a similar network for Fine Homebuilding, but it will not necessarily be the same thing as what FWW has done. There is no cookie cutter approach here. And as Mark mentioned above, our buddies over in the web development dept. have worked hard enough on the FWW site that I would be afraid to suggest another project just yet...Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Bob, you should direct that idea to Mark, perhaps he will oblige.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
>I like the idea of the discussions getting more focused by adding more categories.What leads ya to believe that they aren't focused enough? In what way is that a need not currently being met? If anything, I'd rather see fewer than more.In all honesty, the change to Knots looked like a solution in search of a problem.
I don't know, perhaps it's just a matter of personal preference? I'd like to see the categories broken down into separate areas: framing, finish carpentry, heating, electrical, etc, etc.
Could be nice to tap into the direct subject of your choosing, but without sacrificing the availabilty of other topics that can help to broaden everybodys interest. Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Doesn't this just say it all? :)
From:
JJV <!----><!---->
1:35 pm
To:
mudman <!----><!---->unread
(38 of 39)
32892.38 in reply to 32892.25
You think that woodworkers are a cantankerous bunch? Wait and see what happens if they roll something like this out for Breaktime!
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
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Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Jeez, you used to be able to see all the discussions from one page, now you have to visit each forum individually, it's a much more cumbersome system made far more complex than it needs to be. Each forum opens in it's own browser window so I end up with several windows.I can hardly wait for the nail bangers to get their "new and inproved forum".I think it's a "bust". But then again, it's your house.Lee
"I think it's a "bust". But then again, it's your house."
Yup. Like Ron White said ;
I really dont know how many bouncers it would have took to whip my butt . But I knew how many they were gonna use . Key bit of information right there. <G>
Tim
They call me " Tater Salad" ?
Stephen
seems like it could be a good idea, IF,
the room is too small, but it certainly wasn't over at knots and it's not bad here, tho if you don't check everyday, things fall off the charts pretty fast -
or if the moderators wanted to take a very 'hands on' approach, like catagorizing each thread themselves, to keep things organized -
looks like something that someone who spends all their time in front of a computer would do -
I predict the community that remains will congregate in one area -
here's hoping they change breaktime back to WebX....
"there's enough for everyone"
WebX, jeez, you're a freakin' relic around here!Yup, I think your comment about all the action being on one forum and the others getting lost is right on. I know that I don't flip from one forum to another on other sites that do it that way.Well, at least they aren't messing with this one,......YET!Lee
well, they coulda started here - I could be the expert that ya pay to get answers from, that way they'll only need one - - require everybody to pay $5 a month to access my wisdom, I'll kick back a buck to taunton - -
and let's take this to the logical conclusion - every member can have their own private forum to post their questions - rather than trying to classify interdisciplinary projects into arbitrary catagories, we'll have the 'LeeGrindinger' forum where you can post to yourself -
let's see...we can have a Member Only area for subscribers where we'll have the 'carpenter's helper' answer the 'plyboy advisor' type questions - and 'The Gallery' which could feature more than 1,000 photos of....
hmm....I think there's some potential here....
"there's enough for everyone"
>I'd like to see the categories broken down into separate areas: framing, finish carpentry, heating, electrical, etc, etc.Whereas it'd then be 5 or 6 clicks to accomplish what can now be done in a single glance. Take a generalist--a GC or an archy or me--and they'd have to look into (click) all areas to cover everything. A LOT less convenient than now.If those categories are appropriate, then why aren't they the breakdowns in the current setup? After all, there are many essentially empty groupings they could take the place of. A reason they aren't advisable is that most building issues aren't homogeneous...take Buck's recent kitchen story...started out as finish carpentry, but evolved into a framing issue with a lot of business lessons. How many other situations are similar? A lot.I anticipate what several others have suggested...a lot of nearly empty areas with everything forced into the most general area. A whole lot less cross-fertilization of ideas, which is the prime attraction of the forum for me.I'm still wondering what the current problem is that this is trying to solve, vs being a new Prospero feature that is now gonna be imposed on the forums whether they need it or not.
I've bought my dad a gift subscription for years, so I get the old ones when he's done - (he has no computer) Can I still come and play?
Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
Whereas it'd then be 5 or 6 clicks to accomplish what can now be done in a single glance. Take a generalist--a GC or an archy or me--and they'd have to look into (click) all areas to cover everything. A LOT less convenient than now.>>>>>>>That concept is how Home Depot became so succesful. People keep comimg in droves in spite of all the complaints. Too bad Taunton doesn't get that concept but they obvioulsy have a different agenda in mind.
Be-ing sung to the tune of Micky Mouse,
See ya real soon
andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
I'm still wondering what the current problem is that this is trying to solve
Ditto.
Maybe some programmer from IT trying to justify his existence?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Some one in th ecorporate boardroom said to the bean counters, "It's time this damn website business started to pay off, if you get my drift"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>Some one in th ecorporate boardroom said to the bean counters, "It's time this damn website business started to pay off, if you get my drift"Yup, my conclusion, too. Wish if that was the case they'd be up front about it. Just not ringing true that what they did in Knots was to create a better user experience. Oh well, their Sandbox and they can poop in it if they wanna.
I agree but those are nearly always managers making the decisions. Any manager worth his or her salt would look over their "spread " and add minus numbers for future profits . Thats their jobs .
Reminds me of high school football games which generate most of the revenue for athletic departments. The football players see very little of the money spent or should I say the value from the benifits from packing the stands . Anymore its a huge amount and they are the unpaid show to watch.
Tim
I get the feeling that all the opposition in the world won't change a thing, and that NOBODY is reading this thread at "bean-counter" HQ.
I don't pay to use anybody's website, anytime, at all. Bad enough having to pay the cost of the magazine subscription for a gloss rag full of advertisements.
Change isn't always for the better. I was going to Knots regularly - now I'm done.
Before everyone vows never to set foot in Breaktime or Knots again, please read this:These forums are still free to participate in. You can prove it to yourself by....participating.Knots is free. Breaktime is free.There is a member-only section of Knots that is a component of a new subscription site call http://www.finewoodworkingnetwork.com. You can preview the thousands of articles there by clicking through that link. There are videos, interactive features, and more. So, to recap: how much does it cost to hang out at Breaktime or Knots? $0. Stace Caseria
Copy Writer
Taunton Interactive
Stace,
I wandered around Knots for a few minutes and I don't mind the different sections too much - kind of reminds of the old webx format, except minus the threaded discussions (which was one of the nice things about it).
The only thing that really bugged me, though, is that when you go into knots the nice toolbar at the top giving you access to the rest of the Taunton site disappears. Has this happened to anybody else, or is it just my browser saying enough is enough?
Aimless, this isn't just you. A fix is in the works.Thanks,Stace Caseria
Copy Writer
Taunton Interactive
$60.00 to be a part of the members only area? Good God! Imagine you pay sixty bucks and then you find out that the only other guy that was that dumb was ____(fill in the blank) How dumb would you feel? On the other hand If they don't apply the three strikes to the members area it might be worth it. I have a ton of Donkey vs. Clown porn that I've been dying to share with you guys.
http://bootliquor.com/
Edited 11/19/2005 7:07 pm ET by Gunner
After a hard day at work [fixing the Widget factory] and and hour long drive, U finally get home and my cat greets me at the sidewalk. The first thing I do is turn on my computer and head for Breaktime. Then I am really home.
But today, I get all frutrated by the ridiculous sign in process. I type in my password, sheba, and then am informed that the password must be 8 to 20 letters. So I change it to another easily remembered word and enter it blindly two times. Also mt e-mail address two times. WHY???
Then I get the true computer runaround where it says my passwords don't match or you do have me recorded so press BACK and that don't work and it says press REFRESH and that don't work and I go in circles like that for half an hour. This is very frustrating for what should be an easy process. What's the matter with five letter passwords? This isn't a bank account.
The first rule before you put anything on the market is to first install or use it in a real life situation. And have it tested by everyday users, not by the designers who know how it works and who know all its quirks.
I shudder to think you would do any deprovement to Breaktime. At least ask our permission before you change anything. [Or at least our opinion before any radical changes.
~Peter
Man this isn't the worst idea I've seen but its certainly in the top two!
I see a lot of guys from Taunton over there selling hard, hope there not on a commission!
Doug
Cloud Hidden
I have posted this same gripe ( whine) Many times in the 8 or 9 years I have been here.
Taunton makes change after change after change to these sites----------
After EVERY change---the site is harder to use, harder to navigate, and more filled with gizmos we don't need, more prone to censorship etc.
the original site?--( well at least the one operating 8-9 years ago)
I saw mention of it in FHB---thought it would be cool to learn from peers---since I largely work alone-------- literally went out and bought a computer with ZERO computer experience----within about 2 hours I had the thing up, running and able to intuitively navigate the FHB forum----'member---zero computer experience.
In the last 8 years or so---Taunton has made each incarnation more and more frustrating----I can't tell you the number of times I have had to restrain myself from picking up my monitor and hurling it to the floor in frustration over yet another Taunton/prospero improvement----vowing never to return.
Tell you what ' though---- I am NOT paying to use this place---just NOT gonna happen.
Stephen
BTW---- I suspect all these changes are the revenge of some pencil necked geek STILL upset 'cause he got beat up in shop class 15 years ago. LOL
This place is like a drug, we're all addicted to it and now there upping the price of the drug.
I broke myself of the habit of going in the tav so if I need to I guess I can break my habit of using this place.
Doug
doug,
I haven't gone into the tavern since they instituted the secret handshake and the requirement that entrants beg " please, oh please----- let me into the cool kids club "
I type SLOW---so this place is a huge timewaster for me. Chargeing me for using this place will save me a LOT of time----cause I won't use it----just like the tavern.
Best wishes, Stephen
"and a "members only" section restricted to subscribers to the magazine. " Not accurate. A subscription to the "network" is available at a reduced price to mag subscribers. Others can sign up for that section, but no discount.
I'm not saying Yea or Nay to the question of whether it's worth it -- personal decision depending on your priorities and economics, but here's what is provided (quote):
Network members have unlimited access to:
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Nice commercial for the site but a lot of that info is redundant!
Doug
Like I said, I'm not expressing an opinion, just correcting the info and clarifying a bit.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks .
You about ready for an interview?
Tim